Speed six Cerbera - even more trouble?
Discussion
Hi - Newb here.
Interested in, and have always wanted, a Cerbera and now in a position to get one (there are some benefits to heading towards middle age).
I realise that owning a TVR is a 'lifetsyle choice' and a matter of heart and soul. I also realise that owning one is expensive and frustrating, but thats what owning one is about (buy a 911 otherwise). However I wonder if buying a speed six engined one is asking for even more trouble.
I like the idea of a slightly 'softer' car generally and I'd never be taking one on track days etc. anyway, so in some ways a speed six version is appealing. However there are so many horror stories about these engines I just wonder if its worth ruling them out from the start?
Sage advice required and not regurgitated internet fodder chewed over again (please).
cheers
Luffield
Interested in, and have always wanted, a Cerbera and now in a position to get one (there are some benefits to heading towards middle age).
I realise that owning a TVR is a 'lifetsyle choice' and a matter of heart and soul. I also realise that owning one is expensive and frustrating, but thats what owning one is about (buy a 911 otherwise). However I wonder if buying a speed six engined one is asking for even more trouble.
I like the idea of a slightly 'softer' car generally and I'd never be taking one on track days etc. anyway, so in some ways a speed six version is appealing. However there are so many horror stories about these engines I just wonder if its worth ruling them out from the start?
Sage advice required and not regurgitated internet fodder chewed over again (please).
cheers
Luffield
It might be worthwhile reading the posts on the Speed 6 section if you're considering an S6 car.
I wouldn't rule out an S6 Cerb. Whilst there are known issues with the engine, there are a number of cars out there that haven't had a rebuild & are still going strong. As mentioned above, for greater peace of mind, you may wish to try & find one that has had a TVR Power or Str8t Six rebuild, ideally 2005 onwards. The rebuilds have come a long way & the likes of Power are about to start offering 100,000 mile warranties with theirs.
I wouldn't rule out an S6 Cerb. Whilst there are known issues with the engine, there are a number of cars out there that haven't had a rebuild & are still going strong. As mentioned above, for greater peace of mind, you may wish to try & find one that has had a TVR Power or Str8t Six rebuild, ideally 2005 onwards. The rebuilds have come a long way & the likes of Power are about to start offering 100,000 mile warranties with theirs.
Luffield said:
Hi - Newb here.
Interested in, and have always wanted, a Cerbera and now in a position to get one (there are some benefits to heading towards middle age).
I realise that owning a TVR is a 'lifetsyle choice' and a matter of heart and soul. I also realise that owning one is expensive and frustrating, but thats what owning one is about (buy a 911 otherwise). However I wonder if buying a speed six engined one is asking for even more trouble.
I like the idea of a slightly 'softer' car generally and I'd never be taking one on track days etc. anyway, so in some ways a speed six version is appealing. However there are so many horror stories about these engines I just wonder if its worth ruling them out from the start?
Sage advice required and not regurgitated internet fodder chewed over again (please).
cheers
Luffield
The S6 is such a dream to drive on British roads. Test a couple to find out if itis what you are looking for.Interested in, and have always wanted, a Cerbera and now in a position to get one (there are some benefits to heading towards middle age).
I realise that owning a TVR is a 'lifetsyle choice' and a matter of heart and soul. I also realise that owning one is expensive and frustrating, but thats what owning one is about (buy a 911 otherwise). However I wonder if buying a speed six engined one is asking for even more trouble.
I like the idea of a slightly 'softer' car generally and I'd never be taking one on track days etc. anyway, so in some ways a speed six version is appealing. However there are so many horror stories about these engines I just wonder if its worth ruling them out from the start?
Sage advice required and not regurgitated internet fodder chewed over again (please).
cheers
Luffield
If it is then instead of worrying about the engine get one that is blown, haggle hard, and use the savings to get a brand new re-build from Power or RG etc.
Thanks fellas.
I think the above is sound advice. I'd rather not have to exclude the s6 engined vehicles as (like I said before) they do appeal to me. I'll keep my eyes open. I've only driven one vefore - a 4.5 and it was quite the monster. Perhaps a bit too much fun.
Theres a '99 s6 cerb for sale out there at the moment that has 34,000 on the clock. It doesn't mention a new engine (so I assume its the original one) but it does say that the compression was tested and all are above 200psi. I'm sure its a very tidy car, with what looks like good history and a couple of enlightene owners but just makes me think that at some point its going to need that engine rebuild.
I know that I'll make stupid decisions about the first one I see (its all about the heart) so I'm not going to even entertain looking at any until it ticks all the boxes. I guess an engine rebuild is the first on the check list for an s6.
I think the above is sound advice. I'd rather not have to exclude the s6 engined vehicles as (like I said before) they do appeal to me. I'll keep my eyes open. I've only driven one vefore - a 4.5 and it was quite the monster. Perhaps a bit too much fun.
Theres a '99 s6 cerb for sale out there at the moment that has 34,000 on the clock. It doesn't mention a new engine (so I assume its the original one) but it does say that the compression was tested and all are above 200psi. I'm sure its a very tidy car, with what looks like good history and a couple of enlightene owners but just makes me think that at some point its going to need that engine rebuild.
I know that I'll make stupid decisions about the first one I see (its all about the heart) so I'm not going to even entertain looking at any until it ticks all the boxes. I guess an engine rebuild is the first on the check list for an s6.
Luffield said:
Thanks fellas.
I think the above is sound advice. I'd rather not have to exclude the s6 engined vehicles as (like I said before) they do appeal to me. I'll keep my eyes open. I've only driven one vefore - a 4.5 and it was quite the monster. Perhaps a bit too much fun.
Theres a '99 s6 cerb for sale out there at the moment that has 34,000 on the clock. It doesn't mention a new engine (so I assume its the original one) but it does say that the compression was tested and all are above 200psi. I'm sure its a very tidy car, with what looks like good history and a couple of enlightene owners but just makes me think that at some point its going to need that engine rebuild.
I know that I'll make stupid decisions about the first one I see (its all about the heart) so I'm not going to even entertain looking at any until it ticks all the boxes. I guess an engine rebuild is the first on the check list for an s6.
At Auto100 by any chance?I think the above is sound advice. I'd rather not have to exclude the s6 engined vehicles as (like I said before) they do appeal to me. I'll keep my eyes open. I've only driven one vefore - a 4.5 and it was quite the monster. Perhaps a bit too much fun.
Theres a '99 s6 cerb for sale out there at the moment that has 34,000 on the clock. It doesn't mention a new engine (so I assume its the original one) but it does say that the compression was tested and all are above 200psi. I'm sure its a very tidy car, with what looks like good history and a couple of enlightene owners but just makes me think that at some point its going to need that engine rebuild.
I know that I'll make stupid decisions about the first one I see (its all about the heart) so I'm not going to even entertain looking at any until it ticks all the boxes. I guess an engine rebuild is the first on the check list for an s6.
vroom said:
Luffield said:
Thanks fellas.
I think the above is sound advice. I'd rather not have to exclude the s6 engined vehicles as (like I said before) they do appeal to me. I'll keep my eyes open. I've only driven one vefore - a 4.5 and it was quite the monster. Perhaps a bit too much fun.
Theres a '99 s6 cerb for sale out there at the moment that has 34,000 on the clock. It doesn't mention a new engine (so I assume its the original one) but it does say that the compression was tested and all are above 200psi. I'm sure its a very tidy car, with what looks like good history and a couple of enlightene owners but just makes me think that at some point its going to need that engine rebuild.
I know that I'll make stupid decisions about the first one I see (its all about the heart) so I'm not going to even entertain looking at any until it ticks all the boxes. I guess an engine rebuild is the first on the check list for an s6.
At Auto100 by any chance?I think the above is sound advice. I'd rather not have to exclude the s6 engined vehicles as (like I said before) they do appeal to me. I'll keep my eyes open. I've only driven one vefore - a 4.5 and it was quite the monster. Perhaps a bit too much fun.
Theres a '99 s6 cerb for sale out there at the moment that has 34,000 on the clock. It doesn't mention a new engine (so I assume its the original one) but it does say that the compression was tested and all are above 200psi. I'm sure its a very tidy car, with what looks like good history and a couple of enlightene owners but just makes me think that at some point its going to need that engine rebuild.
I know that I'll make stupid decisions about the first one I see (its all about the heart) so I'm not going to even entertain looking at any until it ticks all the boxes. I guess an engine rebuild is the first on the check list for an s6.
From my recent purchasing experience I found that the differential in price between cars with and without a rebuild didn't reflect fully the rebuild cost. So I have a Cerb which had done 3.5k since a Str8six rebuild (nicely run in) but all the similar cars I found without a rebuild were only £3-4k cheaper. Given a rebuild costs £7,000 I think buying one where someone has already done (especially recently) can represnt good value.
Similar to you, I was always going to buy the first one I saw so get someone to inspect it for you so you are pretty sure what you are getting before you go and see it. That way your rash behaviour sholdn't land you in too much trouble. Happy hunting
Similar to you, I was always going to buy the first one I saw so get someone to inspect it for you so you are pretty sure what you are getting before you go and see it. That way your rash behaviour sholdn't land you in too much trouble. Happy hunting
DWix said:
From my recent purchasing experience I found that the differential in price between cars with and without a rebuild didn't reflect fully the rebuild cost. So I have a Cerb which had done 3.5k since a Str8six rebuild (nicely run in) but all the similar cars I found without a rebuild were only £3-4k cheaper. Given a rebuild costs £7,000 I think buying one where someone has already done (especially recently) can represnt good value.
Similar to you, I was always going to buy the first one I saw so get someone to inspect it for you so you are pretty sure what you are getting before you go and see it. That way your rash behaviour sholdn't land you in too much trouble. Happy hunting
That is why it would be prudent to get one where the engine is already blown. You then have a proven starting point for the engine and a clear set of negotiation points.Similar to you, I was always going to buy the first one I saw so get someone to inspect it for you so you are pretty sure what you are getting before you go and see it. That way your rash behaviour sholdn't land you in too much trouble. Happy hunting
I understood that an S6 rebuild cost around £5k. Obviously this will increase if other work needs doing.
If you can find a car without a rebuild that's £4k cheaper but ticks all the other boxes, it's worth a punt if you ask me. If the worst happens, your savings will cover most of the rebuild cost plus you would have a 100k mile warranty (if a Power rebuild) which would make it more saleable IMO.
If you can find a car without a rebuild that's £4k cheaper but ticks all the other boxes, it's worth a punt if you ask me. If the worst happens, your savings will cover most of the rebuild cost plus you would have a 100k mile warranty (if a Power rebuild) which would make it more saleable IMO.
I made the choice between a 2003 year and upwards cerb 4.5 and they were well above £2k at the time I was looking, so I bought a 2003 SP6 fow WAY less and it has been superb, faultless although I have spent money upgrading things like suspension, cleaning the chassis,bushes, HIDs and refurbing wheels etc.
On this forum most will discount the SP6, but remember the Tuscan, T350,Tamora, and Sagaris all have this engine and there are some fantastic upgrades you can do with the engine if required and there seems to be plenty of spares available also. My car has 30k miles and I am glad I chose it. AJP8 engines also get rebuilt as well...they were not faultless but were any TVR engines.
Whichever way you choose to go I am sure you will love the Cerera.
George
On this forum most will discount the SP6, but remember the Tuscan, T350,Tamora, and Sagaris all have this engine and there are some fantastic upgrades you can do with the engine if required and there seems to be plenty of spares available also. My car has 30k miles and I am glad I chose it. AJP8 engines also get rebuilt as well...they were not faultless but were any TVR engines.
Whichever way you choose to go I am sure you will love the Cerera.
George
Thanks guys.
Out of interest, what would be the best way to locate an expert that I could employ to check a car over 1st?
Obviously, cars come up for sale all over the country, so is there a number of individuals / experts that are based around the country that could provide this service. Obviously it requires payment, but it seems to be a small price to pay..
BTW I keep looking at that cheap 4.5 for sale at Tempest cars. I've seen a thread on it and it sounds like its had a lot done to it recently, which clearly isn't a bad thing. But 8 owners sounds a formula for abuse.
However, silver with a red interior is really what I need in my life.
Out of interest, what would be the best way to locate an expert that I could employ to check a car over 1st?
Obviously, cars come up for sale all over the country, so is there a number of individuals / experts that are based around the country that could provide this service. Obviously it requires payment, but it seems to be a small price to pay..
BTW I keep looking at that cheap 4.5 for sale at Tempest cars. I've seen a thread on it and it sounds like its had a lot done to it recently, which clearly isn't a bad thing. But 8 owners sounds a formula for abuse.
However, silver with a red interior is really what I need in my life.
Edited by Luffield on Wednesday 3rd November 09:01
Hi Luffield - if you are after a silver car with red interior - a PH regular was trying to sell his (Graham Abbott based in Leeds) for a while - don't know whether he sold it in the end. I saw the car at Chatsworth and looked in good condition, it's a S6 and Graham sounded like a careful owner (regular specialist maintenance, proper warm up procedure etc).
Wouldn't rule out a S6 - but would agree with other posts that for your piece of mind better to go with one from a REPUTABLE rebuild. Check receipts for what was involved - i.e. top end only or full rebuild, how much warranty left over?
Seems that S6 Cerb's go for perhaps £2-3K less than an equivilient age / milage AJP engined Cerb - so you should be OK on budget.
As with LOTS of other posts in this forum (use the search function) there are many other issues to look out for rather than the well known / scaremonger S6 engine related woes - you really need to have the chassis inspeced, and also consider that as these cars get older, there will be lots of "consumables" that will need replaceing, not least fuel lines, brake lines, potential clutch replacement, shocks will need doing if not now aftermarket, etc etc.
If you are not an expert, then strongly recommend using a reputable specialist to get any prospective purchase inspected ON RAMPS. Whilst there are a number of inspection services available, there is also some discussion as to whether they have reliably found problems. I personally used one such service and was happy with it, but there are also some other opinions you will find on this forum. However, if you use of the TVR specialists that are recommended (e.g. RaceProved in Sheffield, Str8six, TVR Power have their supporters) then they will offer an inspection service.
Whichever way you look at it - spending a few hundred pounds getting your shortlisted car instected is a good investment - may potentially save you from buying a dog / moneypit, and at the very least will give you some strong haggling points. You should be able to narrow down your search by asing lots and lots of sensible questions on the phone in advance first (see General TVR Gossip section for relatively recent thread on this topic).
Good luck with your search, go in very well prepared and with your eyes open, and you shoudl be rewarded with a unique and thrilling car.
Wouldn't rule out a S6 - but would agree with other posts that for your piece of mind better to go with one from a REPUTABLE rebuild. Check receipts for what was involved - i.e. top end only or full rebuild, how much warranty left over?
Seems that S6 Cerb's go for perhaps £2-3K less than an equivilient age / milage AJP engined Cerb - so you should be OK on budget.
As with LOTS of other posts in this forum (use the search function) there are many other issues to look out for rather than the well known / scaremonger S6 engine related woes - you really need to have the chassis inspeced, and also consider that as these cars get older, there will be lots of "consumables" that will need replaceing, not least fuel lines, brake lines, potential clutch replacement, shocks will need doing if not now aftermarket, etc etc.
If you are not an expert, then strongly recommend using a reputable specialist to get any prospective purchase inspected ON RAMPS. Whilst there are a number of inspection services available, there is also some discussion as to whether they have reliably found problems. I personally used one such service and was happy with it, but there are also some other opinions you will find on this forum. However, if you use of the TVR specialists that are recommended (e.g. RaceProved in Sheffield, Str8six, TVR Power have their supporters) then they will offer an inspection service.
Whichever way you look at it - spending a few hundred pounds getting your shortlisted car instected is a good investment - may potentially save you from buying a dog / moneypit, and at the very least will give you some strong haggling points. You should be able to narrow down your search by asing lots and lots of sensible questions on the phone in advance first (see General TVR Gossip section for relatively recent thread on this topic).
Good luck with your search, go in very well prepared and with your eyes open, and you shoudl be rewarded with a unique and thrilling car.
Luffield said:
Thanks guys.
However, silver with a red interior is really what I need in my life.
Maybe worth a chat. I want my Cerb. to go to someone that really wants to look after it/enjoy it. I took it off sale and decided to keep it but it will have to go to make space for the S12 at some point during the next six months or so. Silver, red leather interior, 21K miles, tip top condition, engine rebuilt at factory in 2005. Won best Cerb at BNG in 07. Now sitting in garage next to dehumidifier. PM me for contact details.However, silver with a red interior is really what I need in my life.
Edited by Luffield on Wednesday 3rd November 09:01
G1ABB said:
Luffield said:
Thanks guys.
However, silver with a red interior is really what I need in my life.
Maybe worth a chat. I want my Cerb. to go to someone that really wants to look after it/enjoy it. I took it off sale and decided to keep it but it will have to go to make space for the S12 at some point during the next six months or so. Silver, red leather interior, 21K miles, tip top condition, engine rebuilt at factory in 2005. Won best Cerb at BNG in 07. Now sitting in garage next to dehumidifier. PM me for contact details.However, silver with a red interior is really what I need in my life.
Edited by Luffield on Wednesday 3rd November 09:01
Unfortunately I haven't worked out how to send PM's on this sytem yet! Very embarrasing.:Blush:
Cheers
Matt
Luffield said:
Thanks fellas.
I think the above is sound advice. I'd rather not have to exclude the s6 engined vehicles as (like I said before) they do appeal to me. I'll keep my eyes open. I've only driven one vefore - a 4.5 and it was quite the monster. Perhaps a bit too much fun.
Theres a '99 s6 cerb for sale out there at the moment that has 34,000 on the clock. It doesn't mention a new engine (so I assume its the original one) but it does say that the compression was tested and all are above 200psi. I'm sure its a very tidy car, with what looks like good history and a couple of enlightene owners but just makes me think that at some point its going to need that engine rebuild.
I know that I'll make stupid decisions about the first one I see (its all about the heart) so I'm not going to even entertain looking at any until it ticks all the boxes. I guess an engine rebuild is the first on the check list for an s6.
I bought my S6 Cerb with 19800 miles on it, within a month of buying it I found out that it had low compression on cylinder 4, surprisingly it still drove ok so I carried on using it through last year putting a few thousand miles on it.I think the above is sound advice. I'd rather not have to exclude the s6 engined vehicles as (like I said before) they do appeal to me. I'll keep my eyes open. I've only driven one vefore - a 4.5 and it was quite the monster. Perhaps a bit too much fun.
Theres a '99 s6 cerb for sale out there at the moment that has 34,000 on the clock. It doesn't mention a new engine (so I assume its the original one) but it does say that the compression was tested and all are above 200psi. I'm sure its a very tidy car, with what looks like good history and a couple of enlightene owners but just makes me think that at some point its going to need that engine rebuild.
I know that I'll make stupid decisions about the first one I see (its all about the heart) so I'm not going to even entertain looking at any until it ticks all the boxes. I guess an engine rebuild is the first on the check list for an s6.
The oil light came on on the way to Chatsworth in April, we went to the event & managed to get home afterwards. Following this I had the engine rebuilt at Power, since getting it back it is fantastic.
I use the car all year round & go on a lot of runs, I'd highly recommend a S6 Cerb, but ideally get one that has already been rebuilt by a recognized Speed 6 specialist, it is an expensive exercise, but that being said as mine is keeper I felt it was worth the expenditure.
Hope this helps!
The S6 engine in the Cerbea is a fantastic mix, many AJP8 owners who slate the S6 engined cars have never driven one. Many people i have spoken in the TVR trade speak highly of the combination.
The cerbera was the first car to have the S6 fitted and will therefore always been associated with the brittle early engines. Now 11 year down the line i am sure that many of the early cars will have been sorted, later cars should be treated with the same caution as a Tuscan/Tam/T350/Sag; ensure it has a service history from a known garage.
Dont be tempted with a cheap car with a view to spending money on it - this will be fasle economy, buy somthing that has been cherished with plenty of bills & history.
I would recommend contacting Rob Ingleby, the guy who bought mine contacted Rob, told him what he was after, Rob had already inspected mine for another client so could tell him it was a good example and worth a look.
I sold mine a couple of months ago, miss it like hell, reasuring to know that DWIX who bought it is enjoying it.
I will buy another Cerb one day and it will be a Speed 6.
The cerbera was the first car to have the S6 fitted and will therefore always been associated with the brittle early engines. Now 11 year down the line i am sure that many of the early cars will have been sorted, later cars should be treated with the same caution as a Tuscan/Tam/T350/Sag; ensure it has a service history from a known garage.
Dont be tempted with a cheap car with a view to spending money on it - this will be fasle economy, buy somthing that has been cherished with plenty of bills & history.
I would recommend contacting Rob Ingleby, the guy who bought mine contacted Rob, told him what he was after, Rob had already inspected mine for another client so could tell him it was a good example and worth a look.
I sold mine a couple of months ago, miss it like hell, reasuring to know that DWIX who bought it is enjoying it.
I will buy another Cerb one day and it will be a Speed 6.
I used Rob Ingleby to find and inspect my SP6 a few moths ago, although I ended up buying from a dealer so it may not have been the best investment. Rob can spot a dog though, so it does give some piece of mind. However, despite inspection and some good history on the car I've had to spend money on a clutch rebuild (was last done only 10k ago), new water pipes, diff oil seal and one or two other bits. Mines had a TVR Power rebuild and the engine is fantastic. A good chassis inspection is critical - up on a ramp is best. Mine is in great nick and I've spent hours undersealing all the bits I can get to.
If you can handle a bit of weekend spanner work, plus the odd hefty bill then I thoroughly recommend the SP6 Cerb.
If you can handle a bit of weekend spanner work, plus the odd hefty bill then I thoroughly recommend the SP6 Cerb.
willmo said:
If you can handle a bit of weekend spanner work, plus the odd hefty bill then I thoroughly recommend the SP6 Cerb.
Spannering isn't to big an issue as I've kept classic vws for years (have a few at the moment) and do most of the work on them myself. Hefty bills? Well I drive a L322 Range Rover daily, so used to them a bit as well. £5k for a gearbox rebuild at £70k miles blah, blah, blah...Thanks for the advice.
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