Discussion
guess_who said:
i was reading about carisma cerbera he sayes its a 4.2 and it can do 190 mph is this true?
if it is how fast can 4.5 go?
The speed and performance varies within the 4.5 model... some dont meet the advertised BHP output, some dont get anywhere near their top speed. Thats the sad thing about nearly all TVR's, they're all different, and if you got one that kicks and bites the way its supposed to, then you're looking at around 3.8 to 3.9 for 0-60, and around flat 8 to 8.3 for 100mph runs with a max potential of around 195mph if you got a long enough runway and guts made of iron!
of course depends on whos driving it 
The Charisma car never really did any official runs, its a show car, god knows if it can hit the acclaimed top speed, the gearing in my opinion would need to be altered to get up there on a 4.2, but NOS does do some brilliant things if set up correctly, of course, the wear and tear on the engine also increases.
A few PH'ers here have some real beasts that better the advertised specs, but it all comes at a price to make it faster and better, NOS in my opinion is a bad option regardless of the fact its the cheapest for phenomenal power increase.
The engines in all the recent crop from TVR, are running at a very high compression ratio, and thus very little if much can be done to improve what you got, the good ones are running close to their limit. Maybe if the option to drop the CR and aspirate came along, then we could in theory see some McLaren F1 killers in the 150mph range, but top speed is limited aggressively IMO due to the geartrain and lack of downforce, but I've heard of 6 gear setups, dont know if they make much of a difference in reality on Cerbs though.
Some claim they've clocked in over 200mph, unbelievable, but I've experienced it and more... but the speed was assisted greatly by environmental factors and I dont believe the engine lasts long driving at those revs, experienced too. Too bad those who have done the unbelievable never had a camera fitted filming the damn gyro, speedometer can be very unreliable past 180ish.
hes just looked at the speedo for the top speed
//guess_who said:
so would the typone go any were neer 220 mph what do you think
The straight six engine is an amazing piece of engineering... but that speed out of a straight six... is a little OTT.
When TVR claim something does this and that, they might be talking about the one they just tested, very unlikely the ones that roll off the production line meet the same standard. But there are the rare examples that do perform as they're supposed to, watch out for the Red Rose specs and the ones that are specially built for some people with wild paint colours etc., they're usually built better IMO.
Must be a mental thing on the production line!
But remember, overall, the Typhon has a supercharger, that makes a big difference on the top end, and if the six speed gearbox is set right and the drag coef and other variables are all set right, you could quite possibly see speeds that high. Me, I'm not bothered personally, I'd be more interested in getting the 150mph out in less than 10 seconds!
Top speed means nothing in the real world.
Remember, "I live my life by the 1/4 mile" VD
>> Edited by SXS on Wednesday 21st April 21:54
[quote=SXS ]
The speed and performance varies within the 4.5 model... some dont get anywhere near their top speed. Thats the sad thing about nearly all TVR's, they're all different[/quote]
Absolute rubbish im afraid. Thier claimed top speed was never any more than 160+ and even the lowest powered cerberas out there have been known to push 180 real without trouble.
If it has enough power to keep revving I see absolutely no reason why a Cerb (4.5 atleast - or any with the same gearing as a 4.5) cant hit *REAL* 195 - which is where the supposed rev limiter kicks in. Whether there is a rev limiter or not is another matter, I personally believe if you have a Cerbera that cant do atleast 180mph *REAL* then there is something VERY wrong with it.
They can do that just before running out of a 2mile runway with a bit more to come yet...
Im not sure about the Typhons gearing, but if it makes the rumoured power figures it should be able to break 200, 220 sounds a little optimistic though?? We shall have to wait and see.
**The top speed calculations are based on the gps true speed of a very average Cerbera 4.5 in relation to the power it produces (proven twice on a rolling road to be average) and its gearing. I must stress these are approximations but I doubt that they are out by any more than a couple of mph.
The speed and performance varies within the 4.5 model... some dont get anywhere near their top speed. Thats the sad thing about nearly all TVR's, they're all different[/quote]
Absolute rubbish im afraid. Thier claimed top speed was never any more than 160+ and even the lowest powered cerberas out there have been known to push 180 real without trouble.
If it has enough power to keep revving I see absolutely no reason why a Cerb (4.5 atleast - or any with the same gearing as a 4.5) cant hit *REAL* 195 - which is where the supposed rev limiter kicks in. Whether there is a rev limiter or not is another matter, I personally believe if you have a Cerbera that cant do atleast 180mph *REAL* then there is something VERY wrong with it.
They can do that just before running out of a 2mile runway with a bit more to come yet...
Im not sure about the Typhons gearing, but if it makes the rumoured power figures it should be able to break 200, 220 sounds a little optimistic though?? We shall have to wait and see.
**The top speed calculations are based on the gps true speed of a very average Cerbera 4.5 in relation to the power it produces (proven twice on a rolling road to be average) and its gearing. I must stress these are approximations but I doubt that they are out by any more than a couple of mph.
Rubbish? What the hell you on about BCA? I've owned 3 cerbies and swapped, borrowed countless to do performance comparisons with colleagues... and I assure you, this is not rubbish. Your biased knowledge in no way reflects reality I'm afraid.
I've been in this game for a few years now, and I've seen quite a few that never hit over 150, let alone 180, its not common but its there and many have been dissapointed with their purchases and sold and moved on to other marquees. The 4.2's have held their form tighter and closer to advertised specs, moreso than the 4.5, the 4.5 is a mixed bag if you want to be statistical. Now why would I make a statement like that if I for hells sake own one myself?
Its irrelevant if quality control was the issue, or if there were mechanical flaws in that particular unit rolled off the production line, the outcome is what is taken into account. Maybe if every single Cerbera coming off the production line is run in professionally and tested and retested until it performs to spec before it is sold on would be ideal, but then I'm not paying an extra 5k for that and most people prefer to have a car thats not been driven apart from factory miles, and TVR is no Ferrari when it comes to meeting spec and no Porsche when it comes to build quality...
And the advertised speed of 160+ wasnt always the case, TVR have advertised their speeds aggressively on a few occasions, look back in history and check their model leaflets out.
I'm sorry but the truth really does hit home, if your old man owns a good correctly performing 4.5, then you were the lucky one. But if like myself, you've driven over 20 different of these beasts you get a better understanding of what the hells the real deal here.
PS. My current Cerbera 4.5 (and she does top 190 although takes a while for her to shift past 175). I love Cerberas because I feel its the ultimate bargain for price/performance, otherwise, I would own and drive a Lambo Murc that would thrash a Cerbera 4.5, in looks, in features, in performance and especially in getting up to its claimed top speed. And thats reality. The facts are in no way biased, why dont you talk to a few indies and hear what they have experienced, you'll be shocked. Red rose spec models are the true performers, they've been set-up perfectly and do perform to spec, I dont think I've heard of one RR model that dissapointed.
>> Edited by SXS on Thursday 22 April 13:37
I've been in this game for a few years now, and I've seen quite a few that never hit over 150, let alone 180, its not common but its there and many have been dissapointed with their purchases and sold and moved on to other marquees. The 4.2's have held their form tighter and closer to advertised specs, moreso than the 4.5, the 4.5 is a mixed bag if you want to be statistical. Now why would I make a statement like that if I for hells sake own one myself?
Its irrelevant if quality control was the issue, or if there were mechanical flaws in that particular unit rolled off the production line, the outcome is what is taken into account. Maybe if every single Cerbera coming off the production line is run in professionally and tested and retested until it performs to spec before it is sold on would be ideal, but then I'm not paying an extra 5k for that and most people prefer to have a car thats not been driven apart from factory miles, and TVR is no Ferrari when it comes to meeting spec and no Porsche when it comes to build quality...
And the advertised speed of 160+ wasnt always the case, TVR have advertised their speeds aggressively on a few occasions, look back in history and check their model leaflets out.
I'm sorry but the truth really does hit home, if your old man owns a good correctly performing 4.5, then you were the lucky one. But if like myself, you've driven over 20 different of these beasts you get a better understanding of what the hells the real deal here.
PS. My current Cerbera 4.5 (and she does top 190
although takes a while for her to shift past 175). I love Cerberas because I feel its the ultimate bargain for price/performance, otherwise, I would own and drive a Lambo Murc that would thrash a Cerbera 4.5, in looks, in features, in performance and especially in getting up to its claimed top speed. And thats reality. The facts are in no way biased, why dont you talk to a few indies and hear what they have experienced, you'll be shocked. Red rose spec models are the true performers, they've been set-up perfectly and do perform to spec, I dont think I've heard of one RR model that dissapointed. >> Edited by SXS on Thursday 22 April 13:37
Tonys Cerbera RR only made 174 at Brunters so I feel the 'easy 180' claim is utter bollocks.
In response to the original question, if that Carisma Cerb can hit anything like 190mph with all that plastic tat on it I would be very suprised indeed.
Its a show car to show off the amazing quality of Jamies work first and foremost.
In response to the original question, if that Carisma Cerb can hit anything like 190mph with all that plastic tat on it I would be very suprised indeed.
Its a show car to show off the amazing quality of Jamies work first and foremost.
Calling Washy - what have you topped your RR out at? 
SXS said:Huh? What has downforce got to do with top speed? Downforce increases drag, which REDUCES top speed.
... but top speed is limited aggressively IMO due to the geartrain and lack of downforce
Who cares about top speed anyway? If you're on the road, you're asking for trouble, if you're on a track you should be going round bends
Plotloss said:I'd be confident in achieving an 'easy 180' if you can find me a runway slightly longer than Bruntingthorpe.
Tonys Cerbera RR only made 174 at Brunters so I feel the 'easy 180' claim is utter bollocks.
Not such utter bollocks methinks.
Jeremy
verified 175mph and still accelerating through the traps....
Yup I'm with the *over 180* brigade here .. and few people get to drive as many cerbies as I do!
I myself have seen a GPS verified 168mph on the *private* test track i used to use in yorkshire which bore a striking similarity to the road by the army aprentice's college (!) , and still accelerating hard.
the cars will do 155mph in 4th on the shift light for crying out loud .. any car that can't break 155mph must only have about 250bhp .. what are you doing whilst driving them to kill the engines to such an extent that they are this bad? teehee
at brunters i've seen 172mph through the speed trap in a late low compression V35 chipped 4.2 and 180mph in an early high comp 272 chipped 4.2 at elvington, albeit on the speedo not speed trap verified, but still accelerating slowly at that speed. I see no reason why 180mph should not be possible from any reasonable cerbera.
Maybe all your freinds just drive crap cars cos your experience seems to go against alla ccepted evidence.
Joolz
I myself have seen a GPS verified 168mph on the *private* test track i used to use in yorkshire which bore a striking similarity to the road by the army aprentice's college (!) , and still accelerating hard.
the cars will do 155mph in 4th on the shift light for crying out loud .. any car that can't break 155mph must only have about 250bhp .. what are you doing whilst driving them to kill the engines to such an extent that they are this bad? teehee
at brunters i've seen 172mph through the speed trap in a late low compression V35 chipped 4.2 and 180mph in an early high comp 272 chipped 4.2 at elvington, albeit on the speedo not speed trap verified, but still accelerating slowly at that speed. I see no reason why 180mph should not be possible from any reasonable cerbera.
Maybe all your freinds just drive crap cars cos your experience seems to go against alla ccepted evidence.
Joolz
Up to 150 in mine no prob ('98 4.2) from 160 to 170 the speedo seemed to stutter a little in the early 160's but then was climbing more progressively as it approached 170. Unfortunately someone stole my mojo at this point and I didn't push it any further (it was still pulling strongly though).
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