Engine Rebuild

[RodneyBob]

I'm starting to look at buying a Cerbera but one think that is alarming me is the number of adverts that say "just had full engine rebuild" and they've only done 30 - 40k miles. Is this normal for Cerbera's or indeed all TVRs????

[SXS]

Generally yes. And NO it isnt a problem. These are high performance engines initially race bred... and re-builds are common... 30-40K is around average for a rebuild... sometimes its best to get it done before it goes pop... not that pricey considering you'd enjoy another 40K miles after the rebuild... but remember, a new clutch is something to look out for...
An engine rebuild with everything else still old hat can cost a little more in the long run.... maybe.

But some swear by 80K plus on original engine/clutch!!! So it really depends on either the quality of that particular engine/if it was run in correctly or if the driver was just an all out thrasher... or a combination...

Goodluck in your search for a good one, I'd recommend you stay along the lines of something done 16-20k tops.... thats my view anyway.

[suffolkfox]

Depends on so many factors. The engines are hand built, and as is the case with all early versions of TVR equipment, the customers are effectively driving the test car. As things break, they mend them and the subsequent ones are, by and large, better. Hence it partly depends on how new/old a car you are looking at and whether V8 or Speed Six. The S6 engine was a multiple rebuild affair initially, but now appears reasonably sorted. The V8s are considered by most to be more durable, but as with any car, idiot driver plus flaky maintenance and you could have a dog on your hands.

It also depends what people mean by rebuild. A number of the early 4.2's have had the clatter cams replaced with later 'quiet' cams, possibly with some head work at the same time, and have described this as an engine rebuild. Not quite the case.

So, it appears reasonable to assume that at 30-40k a Cerb is likely to need some engine work, due to the performance and hand built nature of the cars, even if this is just replacement cams, but check the history and if you have no warantee, assume you may get a nasty shock at some point, because I'm pretty certain no one on here will say you will be sure to be incident free. If the advert says recent rebuild, they must think it's an advantage otherwise why include it.

Buying a TVR must be eyes wide open and take advice.

Then enjoy the cars, we do.

[davidd]

So are you saying that my 48 and a half k early 4.2 currently needs work?

D

[SXS]

davidd said:

So are you saying that my 48 and a half k early 4.2 currently needs work? D

David, I aint no mechanic, but technically speaking, I really feel, you should invest in a rebuild... it'll be cheaper than waiting for her to go pop! And anyway, she'll come back feeling like a new beast!

Its stupid things, like stress on internals, wear and tear which eventually leads to faulty functionlity in the engine which trashes everything in high compression operation.... I am always a service ahead, and I will (if I keep her) get a rebuild around 45k...

I would only recommend something if I was doing it myself or already had done it... when was the last time you took yourself to the hospital for a full health check? Not many do, and if did, you could have caught that cancer or whatever much earlier than later! Same goes for engines... a service cant determine anything on whats the condition of the internals of an engine... but a rebuild guarantees with warranty too! So if you love your car and your bank account and your good health, get to a hospital, get yourself checked out, and then send your car away for a rebuild, find a dealer that will give you a good price deal! Some charge way too much on-top....

All IMO of course. Security and safety first!

[Buster4.2]

I would think it depends on the individual engine and how it's been treated - warm up etc. Also an engine that has done regular longish trips is likely to be less worn than one that's done lots of really short trips.

A preventive re-build is a nice luxury if you can afford it, but I'm not sure I would do this on an apparently healthy road engine.

[andy4200]

davidd said:

So are you saying that my 48 and a half k early 4.2 currently needs work? D

I know what you mean.. this thing about 'early' 4.2 v8's comes up nearly as often as the speed 6 thing
Maybe I'm the lucky one but my car is on 43 1/2k miles and has just had it's 42k service a little while back. Suffice to say that it needs new manifolds, which I knew about. This will be fixed soon as I'm waiting to see the progress on a possible aftermarket solution.
And.... the cam lobe for the exhaust valve on cylinder #8 is in the early stages of wearing. I've been told that so long as I warm the car up properly then it probably won't wear any further as all the damage gets done when the engine is cold.

So.... should I go and get the engine rebuilt, to be safe, when it is just serviced and mot'd and running better than it has ever been in the last year????


On a similar note, there is a sticky thread on the Tuscan forum from a guy that has just been to the factory and tells a bit about what the factory story is on the S6 issue.


Edited to say: I reread this and it looks like I'm attacking David, sorry. Your comment just sounded like the way I feel when this particular can of worms opens up.

>> Edited by andy4200 on Tuesday 11th May 15:54

[davidd]

No, it is good to talk.

There is no way that I would have the engine rebuilt on the off chance that it might go pop. I admit it might do but then it is warmed up properly and always has been. It has never missed a service or been low on oil. So it might go on for another 48 1/2 k miles. After all there are some cerberas with a lot more miles than mine.

I would say that it is impossible to guess how long the engine will last, this goes for s6, clatter cam 4.2 or red rose 4.5

Have you ever heard the phrase....

'if it aint broke don't fix it' ?

Also if you shell out on a speculative rebuild you will never get the cash back on a resale, might make is a little easier to sell but you'll never see the cash.

D

[Byff]

If an engine has done 40-50k miles and still hasn't gone pop, then leave the bugger alone. You have a good 'un.

53k miles and still going strong Touches wood

[simonsparrow]

My 97 Cerbera is on its original engine and clatter cams. Just had a big service done, including valve checks, everything seems fine.

The mileage? 95,000

A preventative rebuild would be a good idea with unlimited funds, as thats what race teams do.

I'll wait and see what happens with mine.......

[SXS]

Unlimited funds... mmmm... wish I had some of that.... I wander if the likes of Joolz will ever get into doing his own complete rebuilds???? Although he'd have to get a lot more organized, seeing the state of his workshop sometimes...

[kojak69]

simonsparrow said:

My 97 Cerbera is on its original engine and clatter cams. Just had a big service done, including valve checks, everything seems fine. The mileage? 95,000 A preventative rebuild would be a good idea with unlimited funds, as thats what race teams do. I'll wait and see what happens with mine.......

95000 miles. Thats the highest that i've seen.

[_DJ_]

[quote=SXS ]Unlimited funds... mmmm... wish I had some of that.... I wander if the likes of Joolz will ever get into doing his own complete rebuilds???? Although he'd have to get a lot more organized, seeing the state of his workshop sometimes... [/quote]

I did speak to him about that, and I doubt he'll be up for it (though I could be wrong!). I think he's more interested in the modification side and doesn't have as much interest in the likes of engine rebuilds.

[darreni]

I had the full monty at 53k, not a particularly quick or financialy plesant experiance. Not something I'd do as a preventitave measure. Some seem to go on for ages (like Simon's - 95k), & others not.

Mine is for sale & the advert states all the rebuild details as:

1) Its better to be upfront
2) I DO think its quite a good selling point - the major bills for a cerb are in the engine & clutch.
3) if i was looking at buying one again (& with hindsight) i'd be after one with as much work done as possible & with all bills.

Note the engines ARE wear & tear items - they will need work at some point. I personally have no problem with this as did my research prior to buying, but it seems that current parts avalibility from the factory is a problem.

Anyone still waiting for cams or clutches?, or has this now been sorted out?

There are some cracking cerbs for sale out there (most owned by members of this forum), work out your budget, search the forums & ask your questions here, we've all been through the what/where/how much/what if? stages of cerb buying.

Good Luck!

[davidd]

Nice Cerb Darren

Why did it need a rebuild at 53k? Can you give us a clue to the cost?

I can see a point soon where there will be engineless cerbs for sale and people going the M3 route.

Also as the cars get older other places will start to do engine work, I'd have a go myself if I could get the bits.


D

[shpub]

[quote] Is this normal for Cerbera's or indeed all TVRs????[/quote]

No I've had/driven/known Volvos, BMWs, Peugeots, Vauxhalls, Fords that have all required engine and in some cases gearbox rebuilds so this problem is not specific to TVR.

[darreni]

davidd said:

Nice Cerb Darren Why did it need a rebuild at 53k? Can you give us a clue to the cost? I can see a point soon where there will be engineless cerbs for sale and people going the M3 route. Also as the cars get older other places will start to do engine work, I'd have a go myself if I could get the bits. D

Needed the rebuild due to a snapped crank (at 6000 rpm!) - not uncommon according to tvr.

the parts cost alone from the factory is £9344- i paid less though.

There is an engineless cerb on ebay at present -at around 10k!

I don't know that you will be able to get engine work done elsewhere, tvr won't supply the parts, & anyway if an indie says he may "have a go" & possibly save you a grand, would you? Or would you resign yourself to paying the extra but letting the factory boys (who have the parts & do it all day everyday) get on with it?

[gazzab]

A rebuild costs more if there is more damage eg heads are £1500. So if you take he engine apart and just revalve , change cams, new rings etc.. Then surely that is a lot cheaper than a total rebuild after a BIG failure.
BUT I cant see people wanting to refresh an engine when there is no problem. You could do a refresh and then the old crank goes or whatever etc.... albeit youwould have a few months warranty on the engine from TVR.

[funinthesun]

if yo did manage to get hold of an engineless cerb, how much do you think it would cost to fit an M3 / M5 engine and gearbox?

im guessing about £6k for a second hand one.....

now whos for an M5 engined cerb for £17k?

does sound tempting to me...IMHO

[gazzab]

I think M5 engine is too big UNLESS you want to chop the chassis etc ! Still possible!
I would have thought an E36 M3 engine would be relatively good value. Not sure who did do this previously and how much it costs and how it good it is. Arent M3s only 320 bhp ?
Might be better to go for a standard 330i engine and get a supercharger etc.....