Viewing a cerbera - things to look for?
Discussion
Hi there I posted on here a couple month ago asking questions about the cerbera as was planning on getting one.
Well I am going to view a 4.5 cerbera at the weekend and just wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of things to look for?
The seller has told me the clutch pedal has a small leak, I'm guessing the master cylinder, and he said 95% of the time the car starts, the times it doesn't start is due to the starter as the car hardly gets used so the starter can stick?
Do these things sound reasonable / common?
Easy fixes?
Thanks
Well I am going to view a 4.5 cerbera at the weekend and just wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of things to look for?
The seller has told me the clutch pedal has a small leak, I'm guessing the master cylinder, and he said 95% of the time the car starts, the times it doesn't start is due to the starter as the car hardly gets used so the starter can stick?
Do these things sound reasonable / common?
Easy fixes?
Thanks
MaccaTVR said:
Hi there I posted on here a couple month ago asking questions about the cerbera as was planning on getting one.
Well I am going to view a 4.5 cerbera at the weekend and just wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of things to look for?
The seller has told me the clutch pedal has a small leak, I'm guessing the master cylinder, and he said 95% of the time the car starts, the times it doesn't start is due to the starter as the car hardly gets used so the starter can stick?
Do these things sound reasonable / common?
Easy fixes?
Thanks
Yep probarbly the master cylinder going and will fail common with cerbera,s, Not sure about starter motor but a few years ago there was a dodgy batch could be one of them, I had one and since it was changed had no problems.Well I am going to view a 4.5 cerbera at the weekend and just wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of things to look for?
The seller has told me the clutch pedal has a small leak, I'm guessing the master cylinder, and he said 95% of the time the car starts, the times it doesn't start is due to the starter as the car hardly gets used so the starter can stick?
Do these things sound reasonable / common?
Easy fixes?
Thanks
I will be careful what I type here.
If a car is being sold with these issues then check carefully that its priced accordingly and that everything else is in order with it. Also check that the service records/maintenance are all in order for the last couple of years. A well maintained Cerbera is generally a better purchase than one that will need lots of work/expense.
It seems good though that he/she has mentioned these items as they wouldnt necessarily come up on a test drive (assuming its not a sales tactic).
If a car is being sold with these issues then check carefully that its priced accordingly and that everything else is in order with it. Also check that the service records/maintenance are all in order for the last couple of years. A well maintained Cerbera is generally a better purchase than one that will need lots of work/expense.
It seems good though that he/she has mentioned these items as they wouldnt necessarily come up on a test drive (assuming its not a sales tactic).
I would be wary of the slave going, master is less of a concern, but the slave could add up to a much bigger bill. I am with Gazzab on this one, its not a deal breaker, as long as it is priced accordingly.
Dont get me started on bloody starter motors - the last one we had was perfect for something like 50k, the new one that has *just*, literally within the past 500 miles, been fitted has decided to stop playing ball - the morning that a viewing had been arranged. Bloody thing is not retracting properly/fully. Will be sorted asap, but soooo irritating.
If I were you, I would budget for a starter motor too if it only starts at 95% of the time, in my experience, the car either starts 100% of the time or there is an issue with the immobiliser/the starter is on its way out imminently. Starter motors are circa £300 and thankfully not too difficult to remove/fit.
(edit, just to be clear, Macca is not viewing our 4.5, which despite being the cheapest Cerb out there by several thousand, still has a perfectly fine clutch, replaced around 10k miles ago IIRC, its in the ad..
)
Dont get me started on bloody starter motors - the last one we had was perfect for something like 50k, the new one that has *just*, literally within the past 500 miles, been fitted has decided to stop playing ball - the morning that a viewing had been arranged. Bloody thing is not retracting properly/fully. Will be sorted asap, but soooo irritating.
If I were you, I would budget for a starter motor too if it only starts at 95% of the time, in my experience, the car either starts 100% of the time or there is an issue with the immobiliser/the starter is on its way out imminently. Starter motors are circa £300 and thankfully not too difficult to remove/fit.
(edit, just to be clear, Macca is not viewing our 4.5, which despite being the cheapest Cerb out there by several thousand, still has a perfectly fine clutch, replaced around 10k miles ago IIRC, its in the ad..
)Edited by BCA on Tuesday 12th April 11:09
Check the chassis thoroughly. Mine had gone just behind the front wheels in the small triangular section. Get your had in and inspect thouroughly. Mine had just been done by a well known TVR specialist and they had missed it. If the clutch is leaking form underneath its a gearbox off job to do so you may aswell replace the clutch at the same time. You are in to over a grand then so make sure it is priced accordingly.Just be careful I saw a lot of shiney examples when I was looking that turned out to needed a lot of work doing on them.
Thanks, wrell the car has full service history. The car is currently on 48,000 and the clutch was replaced at 44,000 with a new seal kit as well. He does say the leak is coming from the pedal area. Also it he says it had a new starter fitted at 42,000 and has only driven it 500 miles in the last year. Sound reasonable?
I will have a good look around the chassis, I am a welder fabricator to trade so repairs shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Anything else to look out for?
I will have a good look around the chassis, I am a welder fabricator to trade so repairs shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Anything else to look out for?
Edited by MaccaTVR on Tuesday 12th April 12:55
Gazzab said:
I will be careful what I type here.
If a car is being sold with these issues then check carefully that its priced accordingly and that everything else is in order with it. Also check that the service records/maintenance are all in order for the last couple of years. A well maintained Cerbera is generally a better purchase than one that will need lots of work/expense.
It seems good though that he/she has mentioned these items as they wouldnt necessarily come up on a test drive (assuming its not a sales tactic).
I'm with Gazza here. It's good that the seller is fessing up to problems to start with, but I'd want it priced accordingly, such that you can drop it at an indie to get fixed properly before it becomes comfy in your garage.If a car is being sold with these issues then check carefully that its priced accordingly and that everything else is in order with it. Also check that the service records/maintenance are all in order for the last couple of years. A well maintained Cerbera is generally a better purchase than one that will need lots of work/expense.
It seems good though that he/she has mentioned these items as they wouldnt necessarily come up on a test drive (assuming its not a sales tactic).
I think the car is priced quite well - £11,000?
I also think the car seems to be quite a well known car,
I've come across a few photos of it on Google images, and videos on Youtube to do with Blackpool Tvr Club meetings.
He has owned the car since 2004 with only 3 owners from new so I'd assume its been well looked after. The reg is S756-AFS is that rings any bells? The ad is on pistonheads.
I also think the car seems to be quite a well known car,
I've come across a few photos of it on Google images, and videos on Youtube to do with Blackpool Tvr Club meetings.
He has owned the car since 2004 with only 3 owners from new so I'd assume its been well looked after. The reg is S756-AFS is that rings any bells? The ad is on pistonheads.
Gazzab said:
Never heard of the car or owner. The colour looks like it is faded. Rosso red does, if I recall correctly, fade and so most have been resprayed.
That is a cheap 4.5 but the advert gives nothing away re condition and history and maintenance.
So I assume it is priced accordingly.
I thought that myself, the advert was short, but he has given me plenty more information though email all service history dates places and mileage, more photos upon request of certain areas etc etc.That is a cheap 4.5 but the advert gives nothing away re condition and history and maintenance.
So I assume it is priced accordingly.
I also thought that it looked faded, but it may just be the camera as in other photos it does look a bit brighter.
Anyway I should see for myself when I go to see it.
So any other things to check for on viewing the cerb?
There are two types of cerb sellers
1 two a4 pages of info and piccys
2 two words no info and one piccy.
When i was looking i called about one which i viewed and the chap hardly spoke a word on the phone,or in the flesh.The one i did buy was a whole different ball game,loads of emails etc and we had a good long chat on the viewing.The few i did view before were all short term owners,and in the end this kinda put me off,cos i got the impression that they bought em,got a bill and thought feck its gotta go.I might be wrong here but i think its worth waiting for the car that has been loved,im not saying a garage queen,but one that yeah has chucked up some big bills and a few suprises,but the owner has kept going cos its his or hers love.
1 two a4 pages of info and piccys
2 two words no info and one piccy.
When i was looking i called about one which i viewed and the chap hardly spoke a word on the phone,or in the flesh.The one i did buy was a whole different ball game,loads of emails etc and we had a good long chat on the viewing.The few i did view before were all short term owners,and in the end this kinda put me off,cos i got the impression that they bought em,got a bill and thought feck its gotta go.I might be wrong here but i think its worth waiting for the car that has been loved,im not saying a garage queen,but one that yeah has chucked up some big bills and a few suprises,but the owner has kept going cos its his or hers love.
Dont worry about the wary type posts here. The problems that the seller has come up with are very minor, and not worth considering when buying the car.It is a TVR!
Small leak from the pedal is the master cylinder not the slave, 50£ plus an hours labour to do. Even if the slave leaked you can get a set of seals about 30£ and not replace the whole thing.
Starter wise, about 150£ (exchange unit) and about another hour to fit.
Price of 11k is very cheap, go for it if the engine is good, and more importnantly if chassis is good at the outriggers and underneath where it runs close to the exhausts. For that price anything else that needs fixing would still make the car cheaper than most 4.5s on the market
Small leak from the pedal is the master cylinder not the slave, 50£ plus an hours labour to do. Even if the slave leaked you can get a set of seals about 30£ and not replace the whole thing.
Starter wise, about 150£ (exchange unit) and about another hour to fit.
Price of 11k is very cheap, go for it if the engine is good, and more importnantly if chassis is good at the outriggers and underneath where it runs close to the exhausts. For that price anything else that needs fixing would still make the car cheaper than most 4.5s on the market
Edited by QuiteQuietCerb on Tuesday 12th April 22:07
Macca, I'll have a look through the Photos on my laptop and post up a pic of ours (recently replaced late last year.)
Areas to look at;
Air con - make sure it works, Cerbera aircon is fine, especially as the center vent on the wheel can be pointed directly at you - great bit of design that. Aircon faults can vary, and can be minor, but they can also be costly. Aircon should work and be pretty effective - like on ours.
Power steering - racks can leak, the woodruff key for the pump can break and they're generally tricky. Make sure the car steers well/ if possible look to see if they've had the conversion to the citroen electric pump, its a great upgrade - like on ours.
Outriggers - can rust at the corners, generally getting pretty awful, especially on a post 96 pre 99 - but can effect all of them. Check them carefully. They can be done with a full body off, as with alot of other jobs, but I expect such a car to go for £15k+. Or they can be sorted without a body off - but its pricey - like on ours, which was £2600 alone at the end of last year.
Clutch - recent clutch replacement and seals replacement is preferable, but not a deal breaker - again, they're a variable thing. Typically we've seen over 20k from each clutch we've had, so if they've seen a lower mileage, it should be more likely to be alright, as an example, we have only put 10k on our current clutch.
Paintwork/Bodywork - At below 12k or unresprayed since original, a Cerbera will more than likely need work with anything more than 40k, paint on fibreglass is never particularly well wearing. Again, varies greatly, I will completely admit, as an example, that ours is desperately in need of a full comprehensive respray, which is why its the cheapest out there. This can be £1k-3k for most normal paint jobs like ours, more for fancier paint jobs/flips/reflex things.
Interior - A looked after interior should wear relatively well, I wouldnt expect tears or rips in the cars even at 90k+, just worn sections around the steering wheel, top dash nearest steering wheel and side bolsters nearest the doors.
Diff - bushes/ mounts can be ruined pretty quickly, I would expect these to be done every 40k or so, so if they've not been done, listen for clonking on a test ride/drive. Also diffs can get noisy as they become knackered, which in our experience was at 70k miles, rebuilds by appropriate companies will be a plus here, but not necessary. Again, as an example, ours was done by Quaife, good especially if upgraded to an ATB - which carries a lifetime warranty IIRC.
Dampers - Tend to last 30k+. The more expensive ones; Nitron/Intrax/Ohlins have extra strengthening at the top of the rear mounts to avoid them shearing due to the excessive degree that the mounting points place the dampers as standard. Recent rebuilds and upgrades of the cheapers ones can often have the tops strengthened further to avoid this issue, like on ours.
Thats pretty much it off the top of my head. If the engine runs well and the history is complete, pretty much everything else will be a relatively smaller cost, certainly sub £1k to sort. As always, recommended to get a 'known' car, as they'll usually be wise to the above list of faults and have them generally sorted. Even if it isnt ours.
Edit -Taken from google;
BAD then REPAIRED;
http://www.willowsportscars.com/chassisrepair.htm
Areas to look at;
Air con - make sure it works, Cerbera aircon is fine, especially as the center vent on the wheel can be pointed directly at you - great bit of design that. Aircon faults can vary, and can be minor, but they can also be costly. Aircon should work and be pretty effective - like on ours.
Power steering - racks can leak, the woodruff key for the pump can break and they're generally tricky. Make sure the car steers well/ if possible look to see if they've had the conversion to the citroen electric pump, its a great upgrade - like on ours.
Outriggers - can rust at the corners, generally getting pretty awful, especially on a post 96 pre 99 - but can effect all of them. Check them carefully. They can be done with a full body off, as with alot of other jobs, but I expect such a car to go for £15k+. Or they can be sorted without a body off - but its pricey - like on ours, which was £2600 alone at the end of last year.
Clutch - recent clutch replacement and seals replacement is preferable, but not a deal breaker - again, they're a variable thing. Typically we've seen over 20k from each clutch we've had, so if they've seen a lower mileage, it should be more likely to be alright, as an example, we have only put 10k on our current clutch.
Paintwork/Bodywork - At below 12k or unresprayed since original, a Cerbera will more than likely need work with anything more than 40k, paint on fibreglass is never particularly well wearing. Again, varies greatly, I will completely admit, as an example, that ours is desperately in need of a full comprehensive respray, which is why its the cheapest out there. This can be £1k-3k for most normal paint jobs like ours, more for fancier paint jobs/flips/reflex things.
Interior - A looked after interior should wear relatively well, I wouldnt expect tears or rips in the cars even at 90k+, just worn sections around the steering wheel, top dash nearest steering wheel and side bolsters nearest the doors.
Diff - bushes/ mounts can be ruined pretty quickly, I would expect these to be done every 40k or so, so if they've not been done, listen for clonking on a test ride/drive. Also diffs can get noisy as they become knackered, which in our experience was at 70k miles, rebuilds by appropriate companies will be a plus here, but not necessary. Again, as an example, ours was done by Quaife, good especially if upgraded to an ATB - which carries a lifetime warranty IIRC.
Dampers - Tend to last 30k+. The more expensive ones; Nitron/Intrax/Ohlins have extra strengthening at the top of the rear mounts to avoid them shearing due to the excessive degree that the mounting points place the dampers as standard. Recent rebuilds and upgrades of the cheapers ones can often have the tops strengthened further to avoid this issue, like on ours.
Thats pretty much it off the top of my head. If the engine runs well and the history is complete, pretty much everything else will be a relatively smaller cost, certainly sub £1k to sort. As always, recommended to get a 'known' car, as they'll usually be wise to the above list of faults and have them generally sorted. Even if it isnt ours.
Edit -Taken from google;
BAD then REPAIRED;
http://www.willowsportscars.com/chassisrepair.htm
Edited by BCA on Tuesday 12th April 23:15
MaccaTVR said:
Thanks all very helpful.
I don't suppose anyone has a photo of a cerbera chassis and could point out the locations of the outriggers / common failure areas?
Cheers
Hope this helps, this is a corner of my 1998 4.5 Cerbera. The outriggers are nearest the wheel arch, by the masking tape! I'm currently cleaning them up and repainting where necessary.I don't suppose anyone has a photo of a cerbera chassis and could point out the locations of the outriggers / common failure areas?
Cheers
I have tons more of my chassis so if you want any more pictures, or advice drop me a mail.
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