ceramic brakes question.....
Discussion
t when cold, but great when hot, i know they last for ages, but cost a bomb when you do need a change......moc said:
An enhancement everytime, you don't need to track them to feel the benefit, although that's where the major benefit is.
No brake dust is a very nice side effect, and who's to say the next owner isn't going to track the car.
CCBs are a real must have for me now..
Hmm, don't agree that they're an enhancement everytime, in the used market you never get back the cost of the option and when buying my 430 I purposely looked for a car without CCB's, i just cannot justify the potential replacement cost, just remember all it needs is a bit of damage to the disc and you're swapping a full axle's worth of disks and pads.No brake dust is a very nice side effect, and who's to say the next owner isn't going to track the car.
CCBs are a real must have for me now..
The cost is ridiculous!
John.
steelej said:
Hmm, don't agree that they're an enhancement everytime, in the used market you never get back the cost of the option and when buying my 430 I purposely looked for a car without CCB's, i just cannot justify the potential replacement cost, just remember all it needs is a bit of damage to the disc and you're swapping a full axle's worth of disks and pads.
The cost is ridiculous!
John.
the cost is high, yes, but the discs are very very strong indeed. I think if you ask a Lambo garage how many discs they have had to replace or sold it is very low. It certainly was when I asked 2 years ago. The cost is ridiculous!
John.
ChrisFitz said:
the cost is high, yes, but the discs are very very strong indeed. I think if you ask a Lambo garage how many discs they have had to replace or sold it is very low. It certainly was when I asked 2 years ago.
Hmm, isn't that symptomatic of the fact that these discs last a while hence Mott many have started failing, and even if they do the older cars are more than likely now being serviced in the independent sector. Noone is denying that these brakes last a long time but they WILL eventually need replacing. And as the CCB cars get older what will be the willingness of people to risk 15k on a 40k car?
That said, I love the CCBs on my car and the permanently clean wheels are worth the premium alone!
perhaps ofcourse for the brake squeal 
Edited by kryten22uk on Monday 4th July 18:20
kryten22uk said:
Hmm, isn't that symptomatic of the fact that these discs last a while hence Mott many have started failing, and even if they do the older cars are more than likely now being serviced in the independent sector.
Noone is denying that these brakes last a long time but they WILL eventually need replacing. And as the CCB cars get older what will be the willingness of people to risk 15k on a 40k car?
That said, I love the CCBs on my car and the permanently clean wheels are worth the premium alone! perhaps ofcourse for the brake squeal
Do the modern ones still squeal? I thought they has eradicated this issue up to a point.Noone is denying that these brakes last a long time but they WILL eventually need replacing. And as the CCB cars get older what will be the willingness of people to risk 15k on a 40k car?
That said, I love the CCBs on my car and the permanently clean wheels are worth the premium alone!
perhaps ofcourse for the brake squeal Edited by kryten22uk on Monday 4th July 18:20
Can't say I've ever really noticed it in my mates CS.. I know thats nor particularly modern but I have been told they improved from the 360 (on Ferrari's at least)
steelej said:
Hmm, don't agree that they're an enhancement everytime, in the used market you never get back the cost of the option and when buying my 430 I purposely looked for a car without CCB's, i just cannot justify the potential replacement cost, just remember all it needs is a bit of damage to the disc and you're swapping a full axle's worth of disks and pads.
The cost is ridiculous!
John.
Absolutely right..Ceramic discs = Biggest marketing con in the last 20 years I reckon. The cost is ridiculous!
John.
Unless you are on a track constantly they are simply not as good as steels in my opinion purely down to varied performance depending on the heat in them.
All the supercars we run have been retrofitted with steels.. more progressive performance, not nearly as expensive when they need replacing,and pads easier to come by.
Yes, bit more brake dust but a very small price to pay.
Rocksteadyeddie said:
^^^^^ There speaks a man who should know.
+1Everything I've read points to the fact CCBs are grabby with little feel (when cold) and have no performance/cost advantage over steel. I can't imagine how much of a pain a Gallardo with e-Gear and CCBs would be in town traffic!
simonspider said:
Absolutely right..Ceramic discs = Biggest marketing con in the last 20 years I reckon.
Unless you are on a track constantly they are simply not as good as steels in my opinion purely down to varied performance depending on the heat in them.
All the supercars we run have been retrofitted with steels.. more progressive performance, not nearly as expensive when they need replacing,and pads easier to come by.
Yes, bit more brake dust but a very small price to pay.
tfftUnless you are on a track constantly they are simply not as good as steels in my opinion purely down to varied performance depending on the heat in them.
All the supercars we run have been retrofitted with steels.. more progressive performance, not nearly as expensive when they need replacing,and pads easier to come by.
Yes, bit more brake dust but a very small price to pay.
i thought i was alone
Got them on my new (to me) F430 and must say I really like them.
Would I pay £10-15k to spec them? Nope no way. Would I have them over steel given a choice when buying privately? YES!
Once warm they are fantastic, and I love not having to clean my alloys anywhere near as often as before.
Would I pay £10-15k to spec them? Nope no way. Would I have them over steel given a choice when buying privately? YES!
Once warm they are fantastic, and I love not having to clean my alloys anywhere near as often as before.
sa_20v said:
+1
Everything I've read points to the fact CCBs are grabby with little feel (when cold) and have no performance/cost advantage over steel/. I can't imagine how much of a pain a Gallardo with e-Gear and CCBs would be in town traffic!
Not true. Advantages include:-Everything I've read points to the fact CCBs are grabby with little feel (when cold) and have no performance/cost advantage over steel/. I can't imagine how much of a pain a Gallardo with e-Gear and CCBs would be in town traffic!
1. Much less brake fade.
2. Much lower unsprung weight (the most important reason to get them - significantly improves handling).
3. Longer lifespan.
4. Less brake dust (note'less' - not none)
5. Cheaper to 'run' than steels as you have to replace the pads and disks much less frequently.
It's only the overservoed brakes on some cars that make them grabby (e.g SLR) not the discs per se. When cold they are less 'grabby' than even steels.
If they delaminate, then replace with steels. You would have had to replace steels anyway (and much more frequently) so it's a no brainer getting a used car with them already fitted.
Mousem40 said:
2. Much lower unsprung weight (the most important reason to get them - significantly improves handling).
Apparently there is little difference (some say none) between the two options on the G.Mousem40 said:
4. Less brake dust (note'less' - not none)
It's my valet's issue not mine! I'd rather have brake feel under 'normal' conditions than less dust anyway.Mousem40 said:
5. Cheaper to 'run' than steels as you have to replace the pads and disks much less frequently.
Not convinced, also, if CCBs go wrong (beyond the normal bringing your car to a halt with your face stuck to the dashboard) you'll regret ever having them. I do actually like the idea of CCBs but only see their point if doing mostly rally/track work.
sa_20v said:
Mousem40 said:
2. Much lower unsprung weight (the most important reason to get them - significantly improves handling).
Apparently there is little difference (some say none) between the two options on the G.Mousem40 said:
4. Less brake dust (note'less' - not none)
It's my valet's issue not mine! I'd rather have brake feel under 'normal' conditions than less dust anyway.Mousem40 said:
5. Cheaper to 'run' than steels as you have to replace the pads and disks much less frequently.
Not convinced, also, if CCBs go wrong (beyond the normal bringing your car to a halt with your face stuck to the dashboard) you'll regret ever having them. I do actually like the idea of CCBs but only see their point if doing mostly rally/track work.
I know a guy who's had CCBs on his car for over 100k miles and they are in good condition with the original pads as well (turbo S),so they really can last many miles if treated properly.
I'd say they weren't a good option if you are going to track a car because they are prone to delaminating with heat spikes (their major weakness). The disk changes form a shiny silvery colour to a patchy black colour. If you don't have cooling down laps ot get the heat down they can die very easily, so most track day cars revert to steels and put the CCBS in storage for when they sell them. I've seen a 6 month old car at the 'ring with CCBs that were nearly done.
I would agree that they do feel a little bit more numb than steels
Performance car warrants performance carbon ceramic brakes !
Wouldn't go back to steel from my experience with ceramics now regardless of whether you use just on road ( as I do ) or a track.
Agree £10k premium new is too expensive but given a max £3k on a used car its got to be the way to go
Wouldn't go back to steel from my experience with ceramics now regardless of whether you use just on road ( as I do ) or a track.
Agree £10k premium new is too expensive but given a max £3k on a used car its got to be the way to go
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