Koenigsegg Agera R - how fast?

[Lambo FirstBlood]

I met up with the chaps at Supervettura recently having ordered a BAC Mono from them and we got talking about the new eggs which haven't really been on my radar until recently.

I just wondered what everyone thought. I mean, if their website is to be believed, the Agera R does 0-200-0 in the same time as it takes a Veyron to do 0-200! It does 0-200mph in 17.68. Thats almost 5 seconds faster than a Veyron Super sports!!! 5 Seconds That is crazy fast. Shouldn't we all know about this? Maybe we do and its just me

Isn't it weird that they get so little attention compared to Bugatti and Pagani? They just don't seem to be adored in the same way as the other Hyper car brands. I did drive a CCR a long time ago but I hope to go out to Sweden and drive one of the new ones at some point and will post a thorough review.

[kbf1981]

I agree, it's my dream car, has been for a while. Much prefer them to any other hypercar. Love the story of how he started the company too.

[BelfastBoy]

Lambo FirstBlood said:

I met up with the chaps at Supervettura recently having ordered a BAC Mono from them and we got talking about the new eggs which haven't really been on my radar until recently.

I just wondered what everyone thought. I mean, if their website is to be believed, the Agera R does 0-200-0 in the same time as it takes a Veyron to do 0-200! It does 0-200mph in 17.68. Thats almost 5 seconds faster than a Veyron Super sports!!! 5 Seconds That is crazy fast. Shouldn't we all know about this? Maybe we do and its just me

Isn't it weird that they get so little attention compared to Bugatti and Pagani? They just don't seem to be adored in the same way as the other Hyper car brands. I did drive a CCR a long time ago but I hope to go out to Sweden and drive one of the new ones at some point and will post a thorough review.

LFB - please drive an Agera, like it and buy one! I'm often a little mystified as to why Koenigseggs don't get more Pagani-esque adoration and higher resale values, but that's a personal opinion and another story entirely! In general, I think that Koenigseggs are brilliantly conceived cars, in particular how easily they switch from closed coupe to open roadsters. This is - Bugatti / Pagani / Lamborghini take note - because the cars are conceived that way right from the outset, and therefore have an easily detachable roof panel (2 catches only) that stows in the purposefully shaped front storage compartment. Compare this with the after-the-fact conversions done to the Zonda and Veyron - the Bugatti's roof panel can't be stowed in the car, and I think the Pagani is the same. Don't get me started on the Lambo Murcielago's crazy roof either!

One note of caution - on paper, Koenigseggs are accompanied by astonishing performance figures, but I rarely see any independent evidence that backs these up. For example, Koenigsegg claimed that their CCX had topped 260mph in private testing, but they didn't offer any proof. Evo magazine's 'Lords Of The Ring' article a few years ago found the CCX slightly wanting around a track against the Enzo, Zonda F and MC12. Also, while the perfect place to test the top speed capability of something like an Agera would be the Ehra Lessien facility in Germany, it's obvious that VW aren't going to let a potential rival get close to, or possibly even eclipse, their hard-won Veyron speed record. In magazine articles (particular Top Gear magazine that I borrow from my father-in-law), Christian von Koenigsegg hinted strongly that the Agera would be capable of SuperSport-esque performance, so why don't they demonstrate how fast their car is? The company always seems happy enough to let journalists drive their cars, and use them in comparison tests as well, so it's not like they're being secretive.

In short, and this is just a personal opinion, I'm mystified as to why Koenigseggs aren't thought of more highly. Sadly they seem to be tarred with persistent rumours of unreliability, but I imagine the best way to find out if you like something is to go and find out for yourself!

[Shmee]

Lambo FirstBlood said:

I just wondered what everyone thought. I mean, if their website is to be believed, the Agera R does 0-200-0 in the same time as it takes a Veyron to do 0-200! It does 0-200mph in 17.68. Thats almost 5 seconds faster than a Veyron Super sports!!! 5 Seconds That is crazy fast. Shouldn't we all know about this? Maybe we do and its just me

There are some videos floating around of it happening:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WtlmpOKMG4

[will_]

Lambo FirstBlood said:

I met up with the chaps at Supervettura recently having ordered a BAC Mono from them and we got talking about the new eggs which haven't really been on my radar until recently.

I just wondered what everyone thought. I mean, if their website is to be believed, the Agera R does 0-200-0 in the same time as it takes a Veyron to do 0-200! It does 0-200mph in 17.68. Thats almost 5 seconds faster than a Veyron Super sports!!! 5 Seconds That is crazy fast. Shouldn't we all know about this? Maybe we do and its just me

Isn't it weird that they get so little attention compared to Bugatti and Pagani? They just don't seem to be adored in the same way as the other Hyper car brands. I did drive a CCR a long time ago but I hope to go out to Sweden and drive one of the new ones at some point and will post a thorough review.

The 'Segg was not was well received as a driver's car as the Zonda - I think it is as simple as that. It therefore didn't sell as well, didn't become such an "icon" and the residuals have reflected that. The brand also doesn't have that Italian sun-kissed glamour which, when combined with the capability of the car, attention to detail, and radical design has really inspired and sealed the brand image of Pagani.

That's not to say that the 'Segg isn't a very capable hypercar, whilst also being rarer than the Zonda. But I think it has rather fallen off the radar, even with the performance figures that the 'Segg has. In many respects that makes (certainly used) examples relative bargains in my view.

ETA - I understand that the Mono is a staggeringly great car, good purchase!

[graemel]

Great video. Somewhere around 25 seconds 0-200-0 by the looks of it. Traction looks incredibly good as well. Does not have the stability of the Veyron. I don't think anything else out there has. I personally don't like the Zonda. Too fussy IMO. Traction is crap. Build quality is excellent. The Segg. I don't know the answer. But I'd say reliability issues. Top Gear, they had to add a wing. A yank V8 motor at its heart.

[GingerWizard]

Its pulling like a fking train at 320kph +, I would take one to ehre lesse if i won the euro millions and just go for it. Thats a monster, and still my favorite car maker of all time. I really want a CCXR in bare varnished carbon. More then enough too make any car sweat... buggatti, Mclaren, anything. They are such an unknown qunatity, its all about ball size with those cars.......

[graemel]

GingerWizard said:

Its pulling like a fking train at 320kph +, I would take one to ehre lesse if i won the euro millions and just go for it. Thats a monster, and still my favorite car maker of all time. I really want a CCXR in bare varnished carbon. More then enough too make any car sweat... buggatti, Mclaren, anything. They are such an unknown qunatity, its all about ball size with those cars.......

That is exactly why the Veyron is so clever. Balls are great and a very important part. But the Veyron allows those that have not got big balls to achieve the same without drama. There are not many cars that when driving at 200mph + you would be comfortable in knee wheel steering whilst lighting a cigarette. That's the clever bit.

[Lambo FirstBlood]

will_ said:

ETA - I understand that the Mono is a staggeringly great car, good purchase!

Thanks. Haven't driven it yet. Test drive booked at Silverstone on the 3rd December so will let you know if it's as good as I hope it is.

[GingerWizard]

graemel said:

GingerWizard said:

Its pulling like a fking train at 320kph +, I would take one to ehre lesse if i won the euro millions and just go for it. Thats a monster, and still my favorite car maker of all time. I really want a CCXR in bare varnished carbon. More then enough too make any car sweat... buggatti, Mclaren, anything. They are such an unknown qunatity, its all about ball size with those cars.......

That is exactly why the Veyron is so clever. Balls are great and a very important part. But the Veyron allows those that have not got big balls to achieve the same without drama. There are not many cars that when driving at 200mph + you would be comfortable in knee wheel steering whilst lighting a cigarette. That's the clever bit.

You would need to have bigger balls to knee steer at 200mph plus. Adrenial gland is at 50 % in Veyron and 200% in an egg. Knowing you can go just as fast is the excitment.

[graemel]

I understand where you are coming from. There are not that many people that have experienced 200mph+. 150 becomes a different ball game. 200 moves the game on some what. You have to live it to understand. 200+ is a very different game. Sure take a long straight bit of tarmac on your own not so bad. Take a bit of french dual carriage way not the same. My old Brabus 1996 S Class would exceed 200mph. But I tell you now it would be a buttock clenching experience. With the Veyron knee wheel steering. That is the difference.
Adrenalin rush bo**cks. You have any car side ways at the plus side of 150 it is about survival. Again that is where the Veyron is so bloody good.

[Tallbut Buxomly]

What impressed me most with that video is they took the car up to in excess of 200mph 3 times within f minutes and then hammered on the brakes brutally and it appeared not to suffer from it at all.

The brakes must have been absolutely blazing hot.

[Streetrod]

Ahh.. One of my fave subjects. Belfastboy and I have discussed this at length. But here are a few more observations and I think they relate directly to how the Pagani and the Koenigsegg are perceived.

The Egg emerged from the mind of a very clever but spotty 22 year old kid who wanted to build his own super car. The Zonda was designed and built by a guy whose history includes designing and building the first all carbon fibre Lamborghini, who then went on to set up Modena Design who then consulted to many super car manufacturers on the use of carbon fibre and composite materials. In effect Pagani have massive creditability in the market.

Christian was never an engineer, just a very bright guy with a dream.

Let’s now look at the cars. Koenigsegg do not build their own bodies, they are built in England, they only manufacture the smaller carbon parts in house.

Pagani build all they own carbon bodies and parts.

Engines, Koenigsegg, used to use a Ford racing block and built their engines on top of that, Pagani as we all known use custom built AMG units.

Quality. I'm afraid some of the early Eggs were not that well put together and that reputation has stuck but does not apply to their latest cars. The Pagani's have been great from day one when it comes to quality.

As good as the Eggs are today you just have to look at the engine bay of both cars to realise that the Pagani has been produced with more flair.

The Agera is now built with a truly custom engine, again using a block produced in England that has banished the very peaky characteristics of their old engine. And as can be seen from the video have produced a wickedly fast car. It will be interesting to see how it compares with the Pagani Huayra when performance figures appear for that car as according to Pagani it is much faster than the Zonda.

As for values, yes the Egg has suffered greatly when compared to the Zonda, which has to make them one of the performance bargains if you think £450k for a CCX is cheap.

The Zonda is not slow by the way, check out this well known F in Brazil being given some stick by its owner, 345kph anyone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UorFKL7fm4&fea...

LFB you need to watch this program, it will give you a lot of insight into the Agera:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2_A0xNYxuE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnXV84lbLH0&fea...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO16nUSriyY&fea...

Koenigsegg today are a great company with wonderful ideas and a great product, but I am sorry to say that compared to Pagani they will always miss out on the flair that attracts buyers to these cars. You just have to look at the order book for the Huayra (which is cheaper than the Agera by the way) to see that

PS I would have a CCX parked next to my Zonda F in my dream garage

Edited by Streetrod on Thursday 17th November 12:45

[will_]

Streetrod said:

The Agera is now built with a truly custom engine, again using a block produced in England that has banished the very peaky characteristics of their old engine. And as can be seen from the video have produced a wickedly fast car. It will be interesting to see how it compares with the Pagani Huayra when performance figures appear for that car as according to Pagani it is much faster than the Zonda.

As for values, yes the Egg has suffered greatly when compared to the Zonda, which has to make them one of the performance bargains if you think £450k for a CCX is cheap.

As an aside I think the Huayra is a pig ugly thing compared to the Zonda. I just do not like it at all.

As to values, I think even a (sub) £200k for a CC8S represents a genuine bargain, let alone a CCX at double the money.

[Streetrod]

will_ said:

Streetrod said:

The Agera is now built with a truly custom engine, again using a block produced in England that has banished the very peaky characteristics of their old engine. And as can be seen from the video have produced a wickedly fast car. It will be interesting to see how it compares with the Pagani Huayra when performance figures appear for that car as according to Pagani it is much faster than the Zonda.

As for values, yes the Egg has suffered greatly when compared to the Zonda, which has to make them one of the performance bargains if you think £450k for a CCX is cheap.

As an aside I think the Huayra is a pig ugly thing compared to the Zonda. I just do not like it at all.

As to values, I think even a (sub) £200k for a CC8S represents a genuine bargain, let alone a CCX at double the money.

I must admit when I first saw pics of the Huayra I was disapointed only too be won over once I saw the car in the flesh. As for the Agera I actually prefer the CCX from a looks point of view. Idealy I would want the Agera mechanics in a CCX body

[Tallbut Buxomly]

All of that is very sad as i personally think the Segg is the better car. It may not have been at the beginning but it definitely is now.

[Streetrod]

You can compare the CCX and its variants with the Zonda and its variants but I think you have to compare the Agera with the Huayra as these are the two latest models from both factories. As yet no journalist or customer has driven the new Pagani so it’s an unknown quantity; I look forward to the comparison tests, they should make for good reading.

[will_]

Streetrod said:

You can compare the CCX and its variants with the Zonda and its variants but I think you have to compare the Agera with the Huayra as these are the two latest models from both factories. As yet no journalist or customer has driven the new Pagani so it’s an unknown quantity; I look forward to the comparison tests, they should make for good reading.

Do you think the Agera is that different to the CC8/CCR/CCX when compared to the difference between the Zonda and the Huayra? I see the Agera as a evolution of the CC8, whilst the Huayra appears to be a completely new model (looks-wise, at least).

[Streetrod]

will_ said:

Streetrod said:

You can compare the CCX and its variants with the Zonda and its variants but I think you have to compare the Agera with the Huayra as these are the two latest models from both factories. As yet no journalist or customer has driven the new Pagani so it’s an unknown quantity; I look forward to the comparison tests, they should make for good reading.

Do you think the Agera is that different to the CC8/CCR/CCX when compared to the difference between the Zonda and the Huayra? I see the Agera as a evolution of the CC8, whilst the Huayra appears to be a completely new model (looks-wise, at least).

You are right the Agera is an evolution but it’s a big one. The Agera, has a completely new engine and gearbox, new suspension including the tri damper rear end, new body work (it's even wider than the CCX) and a new interior and electronics package.

The Zonda has not changed that much in eleven years of production, which I surpose shows that it was basically right from day one

[Tallbut Buxomly]

Streetrod said:

You are right the Agera is an evolution but it’s a big one. The Agera, has a completely new engine and gearbox, new suspension including the tri damper rear end, new body work (it's even wider than the CCX) and a new interior and electronics package.

The Zonda has not changed that much in eleven years of production, which I surpose shows that it was basically right from day one

You could equally argue that the K-segg is an evolution of a concept each version a new car with improvements whereas the Zonda is a stagnant model hence it being around for 11yrs and having numerous "run out" versions.

Both have pros and cons. I personally love the Zondas look and sound however it did start getting on my tits the way they kept releasing a "new" run out version every few months and then another etc.

With K-segg they did multiple faster versions and have evolved faster than Pagani. The Huayra is only just being launched the Agera has already been launched.