advise me which ferrari model
Discussion
Time to move on from the Lotus and I fancy a Ferrari. Question is which model since I dont want to spend more cash than I need to do, though I will spend what cash I have to, if you see what I mean. I just want a fun weekend toy which wont bankrupt me in servicing nor drive me potty with unreliability. And it must be a sheer pleasure to drive. In all three cases it must be a soft top and preferably with an auto box ( for SWMBO)
As a practical owning proposition what is the difference between 355, 360 and 430. Yes I know what the spec differences are and clearly as the models change, they improve. But what are the relative pro and cons when it comes to living with them. For example, a 355 might cost me more with things like belt changes but likely that would be balanced out by lower depreciation than a 430.
Is there a Ferrari owners club in south wales / bristol area where I could chat with owners and pick brains?
As a practical owning proposition what is the difference between 355, 360 and 430. Yes I know what the spec differences are and clearly as the models change, they improve. But what are the relative pro and cons when it comes to living with them. For example, a 355 might cost me more with things like belt changes but likely that would be balanced out by lower depreciation than a 430.
Is there a Ferrari owners club in south wales / bristol area where I could chat with owners and pick brains?
I think you can't decide this on paper. You need to drive them. You also need to get away from the money equation a bit. You drive them because you like them and can afford them. If you need to watch expenditure, I would go for something that is less likely to cause you heartache (like a 308).
I think you'll find that a well-maintained 355 and 430 are remarkably similar in total ownership cost, if as you pointed out you include depreciation (which you should, after all it's your money).
In the calcs I've done and the bills I've paid, the number of a pound a mile comes up more frequently than you would think. Although sometimes (or some years) you're off cheaper, you can be off more expensive as well. Naturally, if you do a lot of work yourself and you scrounge for second-hand tyres that comes down, but the amount you can do on a 355 or 430 is limited (at least, for most people). Stuff breaks, and parts are expensive.
I think if you can budget for 5k a year (total cost, so including insurance, storage etc) and have a piggy bank of 10k for eventualities you can enjoy these cars without worrying about it. If you're cheaper off, so much the better, but all in all in my experience it's a reasonable amount to cater for.
Given this, you should go and drive both cars and see what you're really after. The 355 is great and sounds wonderful, but compared to the 430 it is a much older car. The advances made are obvious when you drive both, not just in speed but also in comfort. If you can live with the older car, then that is great and I can thoroughly recommend the 355. If not, then the 430 might be worth the much higher depreciation. A word of caution on the 355: the financial crisis is deepening further so I would not count on appreciation; you might lose money when you sell again. Budget for worst case, is my recommendation.
Hope this helps somewhat.
Onno
I think you'll find that a well-maintained 355 and 430 are remarkably similar in total ownership cost, if as you pointed out you include depreciation (which you should, after all it's your money).
In the calcs I've done and the bills I've paid, the number of a pound a mile comes up more frequently than you would think. Although sometimes (or some years) you're off cheaper, you can be off more expensive as well. Naturally, if you do a lot of work yourself and you scrounge for second-hand tyres that comes down, but the amount you can do on a 355 or 430 is limited (at least, for most people). Stuff breaks, and parts are expensive.
I think if you can budget for 5k a year (total cost, so including insurance, storage etc) and have a piggy bank of 10k for eventualities you can enjoy these cars without worrying about it. If you're cheaper off, so much the better, but all in all in my experience it's a reasonable amount to cater for.
Given this, you should go and drive both cars and see what you're really after. The 355 is great and sounds wonderful, but compared to the 430 it is a much older car. The advances made are obvious when you drive both, not just in speed but also in comfort. If you can live with the older car, then that is great and I can thoroughly recommend the 355. If not, then the 430 might be worth the much higher depreciation. A word of caution on the 355: the financial crisis is deepening further so I would not count on appreciation; you might lose money when you sell again. Budget for worst case, is my recommendation.
Hope this helps somewhat.
Onno
I would agree with the above, I went through this process in July/August and ended up with a 360 Modena. It really is down to the driving experience and make sure you get behind the wheel and really really test drive them if possible.
The one I bought was almost new, with only 4800 miles on the clock, so look around and don't rush!!
The one I bought was almost new, with only 4800 miles on the clock, so look around and don't rush!!
Yes, Wales has an owners' club. Should come up on Google. I bought my first 348 Spider from the Regional Organiser of the South Wales FOC.
I then went to a Porsche 911 and came back to a 348 TB. I now have a Testarossa but will undoubtedly have another 348, probably a Spider.
Do you see where this is going? Do not, whatever you do ignore the 348 as a brilliant entry level Ferrari that will absolutely not show you up in more modern Ferrari company, either in looks or performance (in road use anyway).
Yes, the 355 is regarded as a prettier car, yes, it is 8-10mph quicker top end (if you do 180 odd regularly that may be an issue), and yes, people often regard the 348 as the poor relation but, it was the last of the raw, pure Ferraris. No power steering, no traction control, just great handling and a great profile.
Also take a look on Ferrarichat.com where there is a huge wealth of knowledge both on the US and UK forums.
Enjoy
I then went to a Porsche 911 and came back to a 348 TB. I now have a Testarossa but will undoubtedly have another 348, probably a Spider.
Do you see where this is going? Do not, whatever you do ignore the 348 as a brilliant entry level Ferrari that will absolutely not show you up in more modern Ferrari company, either in looks or performance (in road use anyway).
Yes, the 355 is regarded as a prettier car, yes, it is 8-10mph quicker top end (if you do 180 odd regularly that may be an issue), and yes, people often regard the 348 as the poor relation but, it was the last of the raw, pure Ferraris. No power steering, no traction control, just great handling and a great profile.
Also take a look on Ferrarichat.com where there is a huge wealth of knowledge both on the US and UK forums.
Enjoy
sone said:
My 360 cost me circa 17k over 10 months and 5k miles (clutch, service some top end engine work). My 430 cost me not a penny beyond fuel, tax, insurance and depreciation, over a similar period and 5-6k miles. Great car the 430- will have another!.
Perhaps you can elaborate on this? I have a feeling your 430 might give similar high costs for the next owner or for you in 2012 or 2013 - it's all about being a bit lucky or unlucky; every Ferrari needs money spent every once in a while, it just depends on where you are in the ownership cycle. At least, that's my experience, perhaps your experience will give us more detail?Onno
I think I have posted detail in a different thread, but here a summary (97 manual 355)
I owned it for c. 2.5 years and did c 20k miles
depreciation: 6k (bought and sold from/to dealer)
tyres: 2.4k
service and consumables: 8.2k
tax, mot etc: 1.2k
repairs: 7.1k
insurance: 3.5k
petrol: est 9k
total: 35k
per mile c 1.75
I think my costs are a bit on the high side, thats why I ended up broke and had to sell the car
And I am sure somebody else will be along to say they only spent 1k a year, but in any case it gives you an idea what could happen if that does not materialize.
I owned it for c. 2.5 years and did c 20k miles
depreciation: 6k (bought and sold from/to dealer)
tyres: 2.4k
service and consumables: 8.2k
tax, mot etc: 1.2k
repairs: 7.1k
insurance: 3.5k
petrol: est 9k
total: 35k
per mile c 1.75
I think my costs are a bit on the high side, thats why I ended up broke and had to sell the car
And I am sure somebody else will be along to say they only spent 1k a year, but in any case it gives you an idea what could happen if that does not materialize.
JazzyO said:
sone said:
My 360 cost me circa 17k over 10 months and 5k miles (clutch, service some top end engine work). My 430 cost me not a penny beyond fuel, tax, insurance and depreciation, over a similar period and 5-6k miles. Great car the 430- will have another!.
Perhaps you can elaborate on this? I have a feeling your 430 might give similar high costs for the next owner or for you in 2012 or 2013 - it's all about being a bit lucky or unlucky; every Ferrari needs money spent every once in a while, it just depends on where you are in the ownership cycle. At least, that's my experience, perhaps your experience will give us more detail?Onno
I was aware the car needed a big service when I bought it so that was always going to hurt. The car came with a warranty that was next to useless and covered upto 2k for the first six months, as ever the real problems came outside that period and with only 2k cover it wouldn't have made that much difference anyway. Clutch problems initially which turned out to be a failed thrust bearing but while the clutch was out changed the plate as well. Next engine failure, brass screw fell out of the top end butterfly valve into the engine, bending valves damaging piston liners, luckily no damage to the heads. But still a sizeable bill.(I'm no mechanic so forgive me if my terminology is wrong).
Like you say unlucky, but I drive my cars and many other Ferrari owners will have no problems because they just don't use the things. So when someone says they've had a 355 or whatever for 5 years and spent nowt have a look how many miles have been driven.
All that said I will have another but it will be purchased from a main dealer with 2 year warranty, that peace of mind is priceless.
Steve
bordseye said:
johnnyreggae said:
Mario149 has them for his 355 in or near his profile
£1.17 per mile excluding depreciation and 17mpg!!! Thats not for me - I do 17k miles paThought it was a weekend toy you were after??
bordseye said:
Time to move on from the Lotus and I fancy a Ferrari. Question is which model since I dont want to spend more cash than I need to do, though I will spend what cash I have to, if you see what I mean. I just want a fun weekend toy which wont bankrupt me in servicing nor drive me potty with unreliability. And it must be a sheer pleasure to drive. In all three cases it must be a soft top and preferably with an auto box ( for SWMBO)
As a practical owning proposition what is the difference between 355, 360 and 430. Yes I know what the spec differences are and clearly as the models change, they improve. But what are the relative pro and cons when it comes to living with them. For example, a 355 might cost me more with things like belt changes but likely that would be balanced out by lower depreciation than a 430.
Is there a Ferrari owners club in south wales / bristol area where I could chat with owners and pick brains?
You just have to drive them all, its the only way. That said, if you HAVE to have the F1 box then I wouldn't personally have a 355 F1 just as someone else said.As a practical owning proposition what is the difference between 355, 360 and 430. Yes I know what the spec differences are and clearly as the models change, they improve. But what are the relative pro and cons when it comes to living with them. For example, a 355 might cost me more with things like belt changes but likely that would be balanced out by lower depreciation than a 430.
Is there a Ferrari owners club in south wales / bristol area where I could chat with owners and pick brains?
Despite the trend of todays cars being oversanitised and a bit too 'good' I find that the 430 is just as engaging as the older cars but is also more reliable, better screwed together and the torque of the engine is to die for. The F1 box is also notably superior to the 360's and there are little if any handling or structural downsides to the 430 spider either. If you definitely want F1 and spider then the case for a 430 is very compelling. Depreciation will obviously be higher though. If you bought at say 65k and got 50k in trade-in sometime in the future then thats 15k lost and if you bought a 355 that you almost got your money back on that would be 11-13k you'd save or have spare for extra maintenance on the older car.... that's a lot of money to have spare ! Besides, many people just prefer the older cars so you really do have to find out for yourself. Buy the one that you can't walk away from. That way the love will help you get over any big bills or knee termbling depreciation that you may encounter along the way.
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