How many people here are running a V8 and a V12?

[wineman02]

How many are running a V8 and V12 Ferrari (or one Ferrari and one Lambo) here? If so, which do you drive the most and what usually governs which set of keys you pick up? Which do you personally prefer and why?

[gaters]

I run two V12s and two V8s. Soooo different. The V8s louder and as quick to 60. But after the V12s really come into their on, big, long and even power surge. Which do i take the keys for. For a big night out the V8 exoerience. For the long comfortable holiday run its the V12. IMHO of course:-)

[gaters]

I run two V12s and two V8s. Soooo different. The V8s louder and as quick to 60. But after the V12s really come into their on, big, long and even power surge. Which do i take the keys for. For a big night out the V8 exoerience. For the long comfortable holiday run its the V12. IMHO of course:-)

[slippery]

If you own a V8 and a V12, but could only keep one, which would it be?

[gaters]

slippery said:

If you own a V8 and a V12, but could only keep one, which would it be?

What a horrible question. In order of preference would be

1st place the S65 for comfort pace and quiet styling
2nd place to 16M for sheer enjoyment
3rd place to the Brabus M63S for noise and enjoyment
4th place to Barchetta but what an engine

So if just one then the S65 V12 my best car in my garage, arguably the world!!

[slippery]

gaters said:

slippery said:

If you own a V8 and a V12, but could only keep one, which would it be?

What a horrible question. In order of preference would be

1st place the S65 for comfort pace and quiet styling
2nd place to 16M for sheer enjoyment
3rd place to the Brabus M63S for noise and enjoyment
4th place to Barchetta but what an engine

So if just one then the S65 V12 my best car in my garage, arguably the world!!

Interesting that you say the S65, as I have considered one of those as my next purchase, as they are now becoming a very good buy used. I do 30k miles per annum and think it would be a great all rounder. I then started thinking that I should perhaps spend the £40k on a Ferrari that's close to the bottom of its depreciation curve and keep a sub 10k 7 series/A8 etc to put the miles on, as my S65 would obviously continue to shed lots of value with that mileage and although I'm more fortunate than most, I'm certainly not wealthy.

[gaters]

slippery said:

Interesting that you say the S65, as I have considered one of those as my next purchase, as they are now becoming a very good buy used. I do 30k miles per annum and think it would be a great all rounder. I then started thinking that I should perhaps spend the £40k on a Ferrari that's close to the bottom of its depreciation curve and keep a sub 10k 7 series/A8 etc to put the miles on, as my S65 would obviously continue to shed lots of value with that mileage and although I'm more fortunate than most, I'm certainly not wealthy.

Trust me you will not be disappointed. The car is so understated but actually would tear apart most cars. I have a number of cars and from a performance point of view only two high spec Porsche and the 16M can beat it in a straight line. But for me it is the comfort, the effortless pace and for those moments when those who know their cars actually see it and appreciate what you have. i do not like to be in your face - and thats one of the many many reasons the S65 would be my first choice.

[gaters]

slippery said:

Interesting that you say the S65, as I have considered one of those as my next purchase, as they are now becoming a very good buy used. I do 30k miles per annum and think it would be a great all rounder. I then started thinking that I should perhaps spend the £40k on a Ferrari that's close to the bottom of its depreciation curve and keep a sub 10k 7 series/A8 etc to put the miles on, as my S65 would obviously continue to shed lots of value with that mileage and although I'm more fortunate than most, I'm certainly not wealthy.

Trust me you will not be disappointed. The car is so understated but actually would tear apart most cars. I have a number of cars and from a performance point of view only two high spec Porsche and the 16M can beat it in a straight line. But for me it is the comfort, the effortless pace and for those moments when those who know their cars actually see it and appreciate what you have. i do not like to be in your face - and thats one of the many many reasons the S65 would be my first choice.

[slippery]

Thanks Gaters, that's a very useful insight.

[andrew]

gaters said:

Trust me you will not be disappointed. The car is so understated but actually would tear apart most cars. I have a number of cars and from a performance point of view only two high spec Porsche and the 16M can beat it in a straight line. But for me it is the comfort, the effortless pace and for those moments when those who know their cars actually see it and appreciate what you have. i do not like to be in your face - and thats one of the many many reasons the S65 would be my first choice.

+1
borrowed one once : 737 lb ft of torque

[wineman02]

Thanks for the replies guys. I was really pertaining to Ferrari and Lamborghini V8s and V12s though.

[slippery]

wineman02 said:

Thanks for the replies guys. I was really pertaining to Ferrari and Lamborghini V8s and V12s though.

Apologies for the hijack!

[gaters]

wineman02 said:

Thanks for the replies guys. I was really pertaining to Ferrari and Lamborghini V8s and V12s though.

Sorry also - in that case if i had to make a choice bewteen my Ferrari V8 or V12 - I would go for the v12. The former makes the right noise some of the time but the V12 all of the time for me - and the performance at the top end to match - a smoother and cleaner delivery of the power.

[wineman02]

Hi Gater

That is really interesting you would go for the 550 over your 16M. I am looking at changing to a 360 or 550 so very interesting. I need to take both out clearly. The problem is wanting them both for different reasons. It would be interesting to see how many others who have both would pick the keys for the V12 the most.

[LukeyLikey]

Hopefully you'll allow half a hijack! I have a V8 Ferrari and a V12 Aston. The Ferrari is a great toy - brilliant to drive, all about fun. Great for summers and weekends. The V12 Aston is a continent muncher (drove from Monaco to UK in one hit last year, could have turned around and gone back it was so good).

V12 power is brilliant and the car is a car more than it is a toy but good for different things. Also brilliant to drive but in a different way. I use it for evenings and long distances (although the V8 Ferrari is worth putting up with the noise for over long distances too).

Which to sell if I had to sell one? Very, very hard to answer. I genuinely love both and could only really answer on the day I had to do it. Even then I would undoubtedly regret my choice.

[wineman02]

This is really interesting as I always equated effortless driving with having a very powerful car which both are. I get the noise thing but surely a V12 Ferrari is just as noisy as the V8 if not more? How does the V12 offer more comfort - is it a case of a lot more torque making it less of an effort?

So what are the pros and cons of each? If money was not in the equation and you had a choice of:-

458
1485kg
0-60 in 3.1
562 BHP

or a

599GTO
1495kg
0-60 in 3.4
670 BHP

Which would you go for and why? Would you not have as much driving fun in both? How about a 360 or a 550?

[LukeyLikey]

wineman02 said:

This is really interesting as I always equated effortless driving with having a very powerful car which both are. I get the noise thing but surely a V12 Ferrari is just as noisy as the V8 if not more? How does the V12 offer more comfort - is it a case of a lot more torque making it less of an effort?

So what are the pros and cons of each? If money was not in the equation and you had a choice of:-

458
1485kg
0-60 in 3.1
562 BHP

or a

599GTO
1495kg
0-60 in 3.4
670 BHP

Which would you go for and why? Would you not have as much driving fun in both? How about a 360 or a 550?

Speaking from experience the 360 is a great car, really thrilling. A friend had a 550 and loved that (although he now has a 458 and is buying a 458 Spider).

There are two key differences, engine position and engine character. With a V8 the power and torque is very high and the delivery linear - they scream as you push on and you have to keep them on the boil for the real performance. This can be very rewarding because you have to think. The 12's are powerful everywhere. More brutish but no less lovely!

The engine position is important. A mid car moves on its suspension in a different way. On the limit, where the weight is (front or back) makes a big difference to the handling and the way the car deals with the forces placed on it.

If the weight is over the front axle, a car's natural habit will be towards oversteer (power through the rear with no weight at the rear will cause the wheels to spin easier giving oversteer). With the weight at the back the natural habit is understeer.

However, at ultra high speed this changes because once you have that engine weight moving around it is hard to stop - that's why mid cars can easily spin on the limit, so quickly that you can't catch them.

What the designers do to deal with these traits influences the way the car drives. For instance, a mid car needs a quick and responsive front end to get the turning wheels tucked in well so that the rear engine weight then balances the car (a 430 doesn't really under steer but the front end feels alive and almost frantic - thrilling to drive but can be tiring).

On the 458 the rear suspension ties the car down so well that they have gone a step further and quickened the steering rack even more so that sharp front end feeling can be increased even more. Great layout for tracks (also why F1 cars are mid engined).

You can afford to have a fast throttle response because you get great traction with the weight over the driven rear wheels. Aston V12's have a long travel throttle so that the power can be modulated much more precisely - very important with 500bhp and bags of torque through rear wheels and less weight over them. But, also helps with being less tiring over distance.

In the end, these cars are different for good reason, there is a lot of fun to be had in trying to understand them both and we're better off that both exist.

[wineman02]

Thanks LukeyLikey

Great post. I think essentially for those who do not take their cars to the limit there is probably not a lot in it when just going on a spirited drive on UK roads. The difference comes in to play more at the edge or on the track. There again the "normal" V12s are a lot heavier than the V8s so that would have a big impact especially around the B roads in Kent with the V8's being more nimble and agile.

I am asking as my wife is not too keen on my 328 GTS (she is not into fast cars anyway) as she gets scared. I am not sure if it is because it is a 1989 car so way behind technology and feels like you are going 90 when going 60 down a straight road. It just results in her asking me to slow down. I have come to this conclusion as she does not have the same issue in my 911 C4s at 60. I am therefore thinking of selling both and getting a 360 or a 550. I would like both really! Or I could wait for 612s to come down to the 50-60K mark and get one of them so we can go out as a family in it.. Decisions, decisions , decisions!

[wineman02]

I guess adding a 612 may solve my dilemma and I would have the best of all worlds!

There again - I know it should not be a concern but I like to drive my cars and the fuel consumption in a V12 might quash my enjoyment. My 456 cost about 50p per mike in fuel and that was taking it easy! Best to stick to the V8s maybe because of this.

[mhh]

Interesting thread. I've got a 458 and I love it but I'm fascinated by the sound of the 599 replacement - quicker to 200km/h than an Aventador and smaller than a 599. But I've never driven a V12 Ferrari to know how they compare to the V8s.