Ferrari 308 good investment?
Discussion
After a 2 year search I finally bought my 308 GTB in December, but I'm starting to wonder if I bought at just the right time as there now appears to be very few original 308s available? (By Original I mean original spec, original engines etc)
Looking in the PH classifieds there are actually more 288 GTOs available than 308 GTB/S'. Does that mean prices are set to rocket? The 308 was the sucessor to the Dino and prices went silly on those recently. The same goes for the 512 BB and the 288 GTO which were all of a similar style of design? Based on those cars and the way they have soared in recent years, surely the 308 is the next logical car to see a rise?
I bought mine with the view that I wouldn't lose any money in depreciation as older Ferraris tend to be pretty stable, so if they dont then hey, I'm still happy I've got my dream car from when I was a wee lad. But would be nice if it paid off! Not that I'll probably bring myself to part with it ever!
Looking in the PH classifieds there are actually more 288 GTOs available than 308 GTB/S'. Does that mean prices are set to rocket? The 308 was the sucessor to the Dino and prices went silly on those recently. The same goes for the 512 BB and the 288 GTO which were all of a similar style of design? Based on those cars and the way they have soared in recent years, surely the 308 is the next logical car to see a rise?
I bought mine with the view that I wouldn't lose any money in depreciation as older Ferraris tend to be pretty stable, so if they dont then hey, I'm still happy I've got my dream car from when I was a wee lad. But would be nice if it paid off! Not that I'll probably bring myself to part with it ever!
I don't know about rocket but I personally think they will be steady climbers......
I'm looking for an early 80's bike at the moment and my best mate who has collected >15 of them has the theory that the price for those has just about peaked as the 80's teenagers are now in there 50's with disposable income to collect them (and be taken back to their youth!).
Over the next 20 years or so the same bikes will become unloved as that generation, for want of a better way of putting it, gets too old to ride them and dies out. The next generation is then looking at the later machines of their youth.
The same could be said for 205 GTi's or R5 Turbo's. I'd love one and pay a premium for one as I had them in the mid-80's but my kids would think I'd lost the plot.
I think the previous generation to me has pushed Mexico's and RS's through the roof.
So my question is, are these price cycles transient and related to the age of the prospective buyers? I think with Ferrari's they are not purely due to the history of the marque, wider appreciation and they were built in low numbers.
My lottery car would be the 288 GTO as it was THE car of my time but whilst I appreciate them I personally would not pay more than 50k for a Dino.....
I'm looking for an early 80's bike at the moment and my best mate who has collected >15 of them has the theory that the price for those has just about peaked as the 80's teenagers are now in there 50's with disposable income to collect them (and be taken back to their youth!).
Over the next 20 years or so the same bikes will become unloved as that generation, for want of a better way of putting it, gets too old to ride them and dies out. The next generation is then looking at the later machines of their youth.
The same could be said for 205 GTi's or R5 Turbo's. I'd love one and pay a premium for one as I had them in the mid-80's but my kids would think I'd lost the plot.
I think the previous generation to me has pushed Mexico's and RS's through the roof.
So my question is, are these price cycles transient and related to the age of the prospective buyers? I think with Ferrari's they are not purely due to the history of the marque, wider appreciation and they were built in low numbers.
My lottery car would be the 288 GTO as it was THE car of my time but whilst I appreciate them I personally would not pay more than 50k for a Dino.....
Edited by mike01606 on Wednesday 5th February 08:48
Why do you care?
You bought your dream car, you say you're not going to sell it, so it really doesn't matter if it doubles of halves in value (except for insurance purposes).
I bought the GS with similar reasoning, prices seem firmer than last year, so if I did sell it I'd probably break even, but it really doesn't matter. I bought a car, I bought it to use, and to enjoy.
I also bought a flat to rent out a few years back. that was an investment, I do care what it is worth and whether I could get better yield elsewhere. I also wish I'd bought a 246 Dino instead (except the wife thought a flat would be a better investment).
The only reason for keep an eye on values is so you can justify the purchase to the missus, but don't go too far or she'll try and make you sell it and buy rental property
Now if anyone fancies splitting that XJ220 in "spotted" and putting it away for 5 years......
You bought your dream car, you say you're not going to sell it, so it really doesn't matter if it doubles of halves in value (except for insurance purposes).
I bought the GS with similar reasoning, prices seem firmer than last year, so if I did sell it I'd probably break even, but it really doesn't matter. I bought a car, I bought it to use, and to enjoy.
I also bought a flat to rent out a few years back. that was an investment, I do care what it is worth and whether I could get better yield elsewhere. I also wish I'd bought a 246 Dino instead (except the wife thought a flat would be a better investment).
The only reason for keep an eye on values is so you can justify the purchase to the missus, but don't go too far or she'll try and make you sell it and buy rental property
Now if anyone fancies splitting that XJ220 in "spotted" and putting it away for 5 years......
johnnyreggae said:
Perhaps this should be posted in the one car for £ 350 000 thread !!
Carb GTB/GTS have to soon go the way of fiberglass GTB and Dinos not just due to rarity but also because they are just so much fun and so usable even on UK roads because they are small and nippy
Ha, not sure about the £350k but I definitely agree that a 308 carb car is immense fun to drive/own , after owning a 328 for over 3 years I made the switch to a 308 carb 10 months ago and don't regret it for a minute , I find the 308 great even on long distance touring jaunts ..Carb GTB/GTS have to soon go the way of fiberglass GTB and Dinos not just due to rarity but also because they are just so much fun and so usable even on UK roads because they are small and nippy
They are almost certainly on the up.
I don't really get the carb obsession. 911s used the same mechanical injection (K-Jetronic) from the late 60s through to the mid 80s. FI is a huge technical leap and appeared in racing cars from the mid 60s. And for a road car it's effortless. No cranking or stalling. She starts first time and every time in the winter.
I don't really get the carb obsession. 911s used the same mechanical injection (K-Jetronic) from the late 60s through to the mid 80s. FI is a huge technical leap and appeared in racing cars from the mid 60s. And for a road car it's effortless. No cranking or stalling. She starts first time and every time in the winter.
Behemoth said:
They are almost certainly on the up.
I don't really get the carb obsession. 911s used the same mechanical injection (K-Jetronic) from the late 60s through to the mid 80s. FI is a huge technical leap and appeared in racing cars from the mid 60s. And for a road car it's effortless. No cranking or stalling. She starts first time and every time in the winter.
Isn't it more the case that the 308 GTBi was thoroughly de-tuned and a bit gutless though? Carbs and earlier detailing for me although GRP cars have gone through the roof. QV would be next in line but preferably without any dodgy big spoiler action!I don't really get the carb obsession. 911s used the same mechanical injection (K-Jetronic) from the late 60s through to the mid 80s. FI is a huge technical leap and appeared in racing cars from the mid 60s. And for a road car it's effortless. No cranking or stalling. She starts first time and every time in the winter.
I think a certainty in terms of being a safe place to park your automotive money and they should rise in value nicely. They made an awful lot of them in relative terms though so that will cap the ultimate value I guess, particularly as the vast majority have survived.
ettore said:
Isn't it more the case that the 308 GTBi was thoroughly de-tuned and a bit gutless though? Carbs and earlier detailing for me although GRP cars have gone through the roof. QV would be next in line but preferably without any dodgy big spoiler action!
I think a certainty in terms of being a safe place to park your automotive money and they should rise in value nicely. They made an awful lot of them in relative terms though so that will cap the ultimate value I guess, particularly as the vast majority have survived.
The i difference is marginal in real life. You don't drive these cars for their Top Trumps numbers. Most decent modern saloons will be faster and grippier at half the cost. 30+ years on, the driving experience with these cars is not about power. There is more than enough in all of them. The experience is about the handling and a visceral, analogue, smelly, noisy, mechanical interface with the road you can't replicate in a modern car.I think a certainty in terms of being a safe place to park your automotive money and they should rise in value nicely. They made an awful lot of them in relative terms though so that will cap the ultimate value I guess, particularly as the vast majority have survived.
They made hardly any in relative terms to 911s. For equivalent years, the production numbers differ by a factor of 10. The amount of 308s currently available for sale are a better indication of rarity than some notional comparison to Ferraris models that were only ever made by the handful.
ettore said:
Isn't it more the case that the 308 GTBi was thoroughly de-tuned and a bit gutless though? Carbs and earlier detailing for me although GRP cars have gone through the roof. QV would be next in line but preferably without any dodgy big spoiler action!
I think a certainty in terms of being a safe place to park your automotive money and they should rise in value nicely. They made an awful lot of them in relative terms though so that will cap the ultimate value I guess, particularly as the vast majority have survived.
check out how many carb gts and gtb carb cars were uk supplied !! low numbersI think a certainty in terms of being a safe place to park your automotive money and they should rise in value nicely. They made an awful lot of them in relative terms though so that will cap the ultimate value I guess, particularly as the vast majority have survived.
Nmj said:
check out how many carb gts and gtb carb cars were uk supplied !! low numbers
Or simply compare the # of '76 to '89 911s for sale in the classifieds here compared to the # of 308s. It's a very telling ratio. At the same time, most parts are generally available and plenty stuff is being re-manufactured.Behemoth said:
Or simply compare the # of '76 to '89 911s for sale in the classifieds here compared to the # of 308s. It's a very telling ratio. At the same time, most parts are generally available and plenty stuff is being re-manufactured.
less 308 carb GTB and GTS supplied to UK than 246 GT and GTS
mike01606 said:
I don't know about rocket but I personally think they will be steady climbers......
I'm looking for an early 80's bike at the moment and my best mate who has collected >15 of them has the theory that the price for those has just about peaked as the 80's teenagers are now in there 50's with disposable income to collect them (and be taken back to their youth!).
Over the next 20 years or so the same bikes will become unloved as that generation, for want of a better way of putting it, gets too old to ride them and dies out. The next generation is then looking at the later machines of their youth.
The same could be said for 205 GTi's or R5 Turbo's. I'd love one and pay a premium for one as I had them in the mid-80's but my kids would think I'd lost the plot.
I think the previous generation to me has pushed Mexico's and RS's through the roof.
So my question is, are these price cycles transient and related to the age of the prospective buyers? I think with Ferrari's they are not purely due to the history of the marque, wider appreciation and they were built in low numbers.
My lottery car would be the 288 GTO as it was THE car of my time but whilst I appreciate them I personally would not pay more than 50k for a Dino.....
just sold my 1980 Jota and a 76 900 SS as bought a 308 GTB to go with the GTS I'm looking for an early 80's bike at the moment and my best mate who has collected >15 of them has the theory that the price for those has just about peaked as the 80's teenagers are now in there 50's with disposable income to collect them (and be taken back to their youth!).
Over the next 20 years or so the same bikes will become unloved as that generation, for want of a better way of putting it, gets too old to ride them and dies out. The next generation is then looking at the later machines of their youth.
The same could be said for 205 GTi's or R5 Turbo's. I'd love one and pay a premium for one as I had them in the mid-80's but my kids would think I'd lost the plot.
I think the previous generation to me has pushed Mexico's and RS's through the roof.
So my question is, are these price cycles transient and related to the age of the prospective buyers? I think with Ferrari's they are not purely due to the history of the marque, wider appreciation and they were built in low numbers.
My lottery car would be the 288 GTO as it was THE car of my time but whilst I appreciate them I personally would not pay more than 50k for a Dino.....
Edited by mike01606 on Wednesday 5th February 08:48
Nmj said:
check out how many carb gts and gtb carb cars were uk supplied !! low numbers
Now heck how many GTBi cars were made world wide..... I think you'll find they're even rarer than the fiberglass cars never mind the carb cars. Just 494 were ever made and only 47 of those were RHD.Again, the difference between a carb and the k-tronic in the real world is hardly noticeable. Not to mention the K-tronic injections will be far more reliable than a carb that'll be going out of tune every other day.
Jonty355 said:
Now heck how many GTBi cars were made world wide..... I think you'll find they're even rarer than the fiberglass cars never mind the carb cars. Just 494 were ever made and only 47 of those were RHD.
Again, the difference between a carb and the k-tronic in the real world is hardly noticeable. Not to mention the K-tronic injections will be far more reliable than a carb that'll be going out of tune every other day.
i see your point , but i like carbs , they are fine if set up ok , all 308's are on the rise .Again, the difference between a carb and the k-tronic in the real world is hardly noticeable. Not to mention the K-tronic injections will be far more reliable than a carb that'll be going out of tune every other day.
Jonty355 said:
Now heck how many GTBi cars were made world wide..... I think you'll find they're even rarer than the fiberglass cars never mind the carb cars. Just 494 were ever made and only 47 of those were RHD.
Again, the difference between a carb and the k-tronic in the real world is hardly noticeable. Not to mention the K-tronic injections will be far more reliable than a carb that'll be going out of tune every other day.
Very true. It's only because the 308 sits on the borderlands of carb/injection that some people seem to hanker after the carbs (particularly old skool Americans). Frankly, it's old technology that should have been dumped by Ferrari a good half decade before. I can't imagine anyone wanting a carbed F40, just because it'd sound a bit more burbly.Again, the difference between a carb and the k-tronic in the real world is hardly noticeable. Not to mention the K-tronic injections will be far more reliable than a carb that'll be going out of tune every other day.
Well they have certainly gone up! Me, I've had my 1980 GTS carbs since 1995. At the time £24k plus and immediate £2k bill to get it sorted properly: surprising(?) how little £2k got me even back then! For years the value never seemed to really move, £25-£30 was always the estimate every time I asked. The last few years, well that's a different story and 2014 seems crazy. Dealers really are asking £120k for a fiberglass GTB.
I have no idea what my baby is worth other than I bet it's under insured at the moment... which is the bad side of rising prices. Yeah the car's worth more than I paid for it but since it's not for sale why would I care? It's actually is a negative as it's just going to cost me more to insure properly. Plus what always was a car in 'good' condition is now probably not much better than average as so much money has been spent on comparable cars so now I have to spend more just to keep her looking good.
Personally I hope the bottom falls out of the market, all those who have bought for purely speculative purposes get their fingers burnt, forced to sell the cars on at a loss to those who really love them and want to keep them before prices recover gently. Maybe a real spike upward just before I sell it.... though I can't see that day coming while I still have a license.
As for anyone not understanding the 'obsession' with the 4 twin choke Webers then I can only assume they haven't heard them properly. I think it's 'doing the money' because it's the 'best' option. The 308i doesn't have the noise or the juice. The 308QV would be my 2nd choice just it doesn't have the sound track. The 328 does have nice lines and the juice but has that horrible Fiat switch gear in the cabin.
I accept the 308 GTS carb doesn't have the drop dead gorgeous looks of the 246 Dino (other than the 250 SWB Berlinetta GT, possibly the most beautiful car I have ever seen) but it's the top compromise given the ridiculous prices for the 246s.
Do I regret not paying £38,000 for a Dino back 1995 when I had the chance and settling for the 308? Yes and no; I would have really struggled with the extra cost and I almost certainly would have sold it long ago when the prices 1st got 'ridiculous'.
Don't worry about the prices/values apart from for insurance purposes.
Drive the car! Love it, keep it. For me, even after 20 years, it's still a treat.
I have no idea what my baby is worth other than I bet it's under insured at the moment... which is the bad side of rising prices. Yeah the car's worth more than I paid for it but since it's not for sale why would I care? It's actually is a negative as it's just going to cost me more to insure properly. Plus what always was a car in 'good' condition is now probably not much better than average as so much money has been spent on comparable cars so now I have to spend more just to keep her looking good.
Personally I hope the bottom falls out of the market, all those who have bought for purely speculative purposes get their fingers burnt, forced to sell the cars on at a loss to those who really love them and want to keep them before prices recover gently. Maybe a real spike upward just before I sell it.... though I can't see that day coming while I still have a license.
As for anyone not understanding the 'obsession' with the 4 twin choke Webers then I can only assume they haven't heard them properly. I think it's 'doing the money' because it's the 'best' option. The 308i doesn't have the noise or the juice. The 308QV would be my 2nd choice just it doesn't have the sound track. The 328 does have nice lines and the juice but has that horrible Fiat switch gear in the cabin.
I accept the 308 GTS carb doesn't have the drop dead gorgeous looks of the 246 Dino (other than the 250 SWB Berlinetta GT, possibly the most beautiful car I have ever seen) but it's the top compromise given the ridiculous prices for the 246s.
Do I regret not paying £38,000 for a Dino back 1995 when I had the chance and settling for the 308? Yes and no; I would have really struggled with the extra cost and I almost certainly would have sold it long ago when the prices 1st got 'ridiculous'.
Don't worry about the prices/values apart from for insurance purposes.
Drive the car! Love it, keep it. For me, even after 20 years, it's still a treat.
slackermark said:
As for anyone not understanding the 'obsession' with the 4 twin choke Webers then I can only assume they haven't heard them properly. I think it's 'doing the money' because it's the 'best' option. The 308i doesn't have the noise or the juice.
Thread resurrection I can guarantee you that I've heard plenty of 4 twin choke Webers and I have owned carbed cars in the past. Lovely sound, but is it really worth the premium? The 308i is hardly a sewing machine. And I love starting it first time, every time in all weathers.
The horsepower chestnut is meaningless in the real world. A very large number of ordinary modern saloon cars can now outwit all 308 variants both in power and dynamics. And I don't think the 246 ever even reached 200hp. Away from the pub bar, these things just don't really matter.
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