Ferrari owners - should I be excommunicated?
Discussion
As a long time Porsche owner, I am about to take the plunge on a 550. My conversion to the dark side is not yet complete as the car is still being PPI'd, but hopefully I will pick it up in about a week or so. Besides, I will always be a P-car fan, so I will keep the current one in the stable, although having taken a drive of the Ferrari yesterday, I can hardly contain my excitement (and those Daytona seats are so damn cool).
Anyway, to business. As a potential inductee into the Church of Ferrari, will I be violating God's law for so much as contemplating a full respray job on a 550? The car is blue with crema seats, and the A1 history of this car coupled with an excellent price have conspired to virtually force me to buy it. Looking for the right colour combo is not an option as good cars are hard to come by where I live.
I know a reputed paint shop who seem to think a blue to rosso transformation is not a problem, but presumably they would say this.
I see that the owner of the Carrera GT in Evo's Fast Fleet has done something similar recently, so presumably it's not unheard of for high end cars to undergo a colour change.
Anyone else done this, or proffer some advice for or against?
Anyway, to business. As a potential inductee into the Church of Ferrari, will I be violating God's law for so much as contemplating a full respray job on a 550? The car is blue with crema seats, and the A1 history of this car coupled with an excellent price have conspired to virtually force me to buy it. Looking for the right colour combo is not an option as good cars are hard to come by where I live.
I know a reputed paint shop who seem to think a blue to rosso transformation is not a problem, but presumably they would say this.
I see that the owner of the Carrera GT in Evo's Fast Fleet has done something similar recently, so presumably it's not unheard of for high end cars to undergo a colour change.
Anyone else done this, or proffer some advice for or against?
Hmmm, interesting and somewhat vehement responses on the subject.
Perhaps I should just clarify a few things that may help to put my thought process into perspective:
1. The car is a steal (not literally). Classic story - big shot has a garage full of exotica, needs to shift one quickly to make room for another, part-ex price is fairly meaningless to him. Private buyer who has watched the market for the last 6 months has an opportunity to pay a laughable price.
2. Labour costs are a fraction of those in Europe. Not got a definitive figure on this yet, but the 10k sterling suggested is multiples higher than estimated. Also the exterior is cosmetically scruffy (chips and dings) and could do with tidying up.
3. Buyers want red Ferraris out here. Anything else is harder to shift.
The last comment got me thinking, though. Lose 15k on the value? Can someone explain why that would be? (This is a genuine question as in addition to the Evo Carrera GT, I also call to mind the yellow 964 turbo that Autocar's Suttcliffe bought many years ago and whose residual value didn't seem badly affected by the full colour change).
Or perhaps I am simply insane?
Perhaps I should just clarify a few things that may help to put my thought process into perspective:
1. The car is a steal (not literally). Classic story - big shot has a garage full of exotica, needs to shift one quickly to make room for another, part-ex price is fairly meaningless to him. Private buyer who has watched the market for the last 6 months has an opportunity to pay a laughable price.
2. Labour costs are a fraction of those in Europe. Not got a definitive figure on this yet, but the 10k sterling suggested is multiples higher than estimated. Also the exterior is cosmetically scruffy (chips and dings) and could do with tidying up.
3. Buyers want red Ferraris out here. Anything else is harder to shift.
The last comment got me thinking, though. Lose 15k on the value? Can someone explain why that would be? (This is a genuine question as in addition to the Evo Carrera GT, I also call to mind the yellow 964 turbo that Autocar's Suttcliffe bought many years ago and whose residual value didn't seem badly affected by the full colour change).
Or perhaps I am simply insane?
Okay, I don't own a Ferrari, but I really don't get why all the folks on here are so against it. Is it somehow sacrilege to respray a car to a different colour? Will somebody please explain this?
He has already said that the car is a steal at the selling price, and it all fits the bill save for the colour. Does it offend your constitution somehow if the car is resprayed? Heck, it's not like 550s only came in blue, and it's being changed to Rosso - probably even Rosso Corsa itself.
I say go for it. Don't look back, and respray it to whatever damned colour you please, even if it's pink with flourescent yellow polkadots.
If the UAE is like most other countries south of Western Europe, you're looking at a decent job of a respray at about £1k to 1.5k. Yes to all you doubters, this includes stripping the car bare and doing a full multi-layer jobbie. And again, if the UAE is anything like it is here in Malaysia, the paperwork won't be a problem too. Inform the government, inform the insurers, and off you go. And it doesn't affect residuals either (and in your case, it probably positively enhances it!).
Go for it.
He has already said that the car is a steal at the selling price, and it all fits the bill save for the colour. Does it offend your constitution somehow if the car is resprayed? Heck, it's not like 550s only came in blue, and it's being changed to Rosso - probably even Rosso Corsa itself.
I say go for it. Don't look back, and respray it to whatever damned colour you please, even if it's pink with flourescent yellow polkadots.
If the UAE is like most other countries south of Western Europe, you're looking at a decent job of a respray at about £1k to 1.5k. Yes to all you doubters, this includes stripping the car bare and doing a full multi-layer jobbie. And again, if the UAE is anything like it is here in Malaysia, the paperwork won't be a problem too. Inform the government, inform the insurers, and off you go. And it doesn't affect residuals either (and in your case, it probably positively enhances it!).
Go for it.
I would keep the car blue. Changing the colour of a car from that of original will deleteriously affect the value. It's not really a wise thing to do. They tend not to look so good in red too.
On top of that, a proper paint job which rather means stripping the car downwill cost £10,000 or so. If it's just a couple of coats of 2 pack then you can get away with £2000 or so - but you'll probably be able to tell. A thorough professional job with many coats and rub downs may cost as much as £20,000.
On top of that, a proper paint job which rather means stripping the car downwill cost £10,000 or so. If it's just a couple of coats of 2 pack then you can get away with £2000 or so - but you'll probably be able to tell. A thorough professional job with many coats and rub downs may cost as much as £20,000.
Folks, remember he is living in the UAE, not the UK. If it is anything like it is in Asia, resprays do not affect the residuals one slightest bit. Not a single iota. Capiche?
And also, labour costs are much much much lower than they are in England. You're looking at NOWHERE near 10k for a full respray. You're looking at £2k TOPS for a multi-layered job that involves stripping down to the bare metal. And no, I am not exaggerating. And no, do not doubt the workmanship on the basis of price alone. Mechanical work in third world countries, *any* mechanical work, is muchos cheapos.
Apart from the financial aspects, is there any reason why this poor chap is getting expressions of horror? I certainly don't see anyone saying anything to Flemke about his intended plans to respray his McLaren F1. Or to folks who bought Enzos with an insistence that the factory deviate from the "compulsory" Nero/Rosso/Giallo colours...
And also, labour costs are much much much lower than they are in England. You're looking at NOWHERE near 10k for a full respray. You're looking at £2k TOPS for a multi-layered job that involves stripping down to the bare metal. And no, I am not exaggerating. And no, do not doubt the workmanship on the basis of price alone. Mechanical work in third world countries, *any* mechanical work, is muchos cheapos.
Apart from the financial aspects, is there any reason why this poor chap is getting expressions of horror? I certainly don't see anyone saying anything to Flemke about his intended plans to respray his McLaren F1. Or to folks who bought Enzos with an insistence that the factory deviate from the "compulsory" Nero/Rosso/Giallo colours...
-DeaDLocK- said:
Folks, remember he is living in the UAE, not the UK. If it is anything like it is in Asia, resprays do not affect the residuals one slightest bit. Not a single iota. Capiche?
And also, labour costs are much much much lower than they are in England. You're looking at NOWHERE near 10k for a full respray. You're looking at £2k TOPS for a multi-layered job that involves stripping down to the bare metal. And no, I am not exaggerating. And no, do not doubt the workmanship on the basis of price alone. Mechanical work in third world countries, *any* mechanical work, is muchos cheapos.
Apart from the financial aspects, is there any reason why this poor chap is getting expressions of horror? I certainly don't see anyone saying anything to Flemke about his intended plans to respray his McLaren F1. Or to folks who bought Enzos with an insistence that the factory deviate from the "compulsory" Nero/Rosso/Giallo colours...
And also, labour costs are much much much lower than they are in England. You're looking at NOWHERE near 10k for a full respray. You're looking at £2k TOPS for a multi-layered job that involves stripping down to the bare metal. And no, I am not exaggerating. And no, do not doubt the workmanship on the basis of price alone. Mechanical work in third world countries, *any* mechanical work, is muchos cheapos.
Apart from the financial aspects, is there any reason why this poor chap is getting expressions of horror? I certainly don't see anyone saying anything to Flemke about his intended plans to respray his McLaren F1. Or to folks who bought Enzos with an insistence that the factory deviate from the "compulsory" Nero/Rosso/Giallo colours...
Is it very humid in your neck of the woods at mo.
deano400 said:
Unless you can afford to loose some money straight away, i would keep the cat in the log book stated colour.
And once again, in broken record mode, in the UK people are paranoid about resprays. They see a colour change and they immediately think "accident".
First thing is that in many countries, not least I bet the UAE, colour changes are not recorded on the local equivalent of the log book. You inform the government, and they change the colour on their records. That's it - no published history, because people don't care. There is also no such thing as a "HPI" or anything like it in many of these countries.
Second thing is that resprays happen so darn often (because of the low cost) that it's an accepted part of the car ownership culture. You do not worry too much about the colour when you buy a second-hand car, because the effort to change it involves three days in a paint shop and a small dent on the bank balance. Everyone I know doesn't give two hoots about the choice of colour, because if they ever get bored they'll just change it without a thought in the world. It really isn't an issue in the slightest, both in terms of outlay and residuals.
In fact, in this gentleman's case, a respray to Rosso may very well increase the value to a point where it covers the cost of the change (based on his statement that red is the most desirable colour).
deano400 said:
Is it very humid in your neck of the woods at mo.
Why do you ask? I'm in Malaysia, and we're going through a little bit of a hot spell. 36 to 38 degrees in the mid-afternoon, and it's pretty humid (but it's ALWAYS pretty humid down here).
The UAE can get a lot hotter, but I don't think it's nearly as humid, as Malaysia is a tropical country and much of the Middle East is arid.
Just my 2 cents worth: I agree with DeaDLocK though not quite any colour. As long as the job is a full repaint, done professionally, fully documented and using a standard colour for that tipo, I see no problem whatsoever.
I went one step further with my old BB and had the lower half changed from the standard matt black to match the Rosso top half. Some Purists said I was committing heresy at the time but in truth it looked a great deal better and actually enhanced the resale some 17 years later for the same reason.
From time to time, different colours are fashionable in certain regions and others not but why worry about the next owner's idiosyncrasies if that's what YOU want. Others may disagree but for me, Rosso Chiaro or whatever is called nowadays, is timeless and will always be right for the marque.
Hope this helps
I went one step further with my old BB and had the lower half changed from the standard matt black to match the Rosso top half. Some Purists said I was committing heresy at the time but in truth it looked a great deal better and actually enhanced the resale some 17 years later for the same reason.
From time to time, different colours are fashionable in certain regions and others not but why worry about the next owner's idiosyncrasies if that's what YOU want. Others may disagree but for me, Rosso Chiaro or whatever is called nowadays, is timeless and will always be right for the marque.
Hope this helps
Edited by nigelo on Sunday 20th August 18:54
That's interesting Deadlock - I've learnt something today. Valuable coments about work in UAE etc and opinions overseas regarding colour changes.
I come very much from the Italian / European restoration school of thought which frowns severely on non-originality. Interestingly, opinions in the UK re colour changes seem to be quite soft with classic cars compared to Italy / Europe.
I stand corrected.
I come very much from the Italian / European restoration school of thought which frowns severely on non-originality. Interestingly, opinions in the UK re colour changes seem to be quite soft with classic cars compared to Italy / Europe.
I stand corrected.
firefox1712 said:
I come very much from the Italian / European restoration school of thought which frowns severely on non-originality.
In some sense I agree with you, but I think the line has to be drawn somewhere. By changing the colour from an original Blu to an original Rosso, he is merely ticking a different box on the original order form, albeit from the seat of a second-hand buyer.
Now if he were going to start to go mad and lighten the car by stripping out all the comforts and the leather, and shoehorning a Chevy V8 behind the seats and putting stickers of Japanese aftermarket tuning brands on the car, now that I would have a problem with.
I personally like Flemke's philosophy with his F1 - improve to car to your personal satisfaction, but take nothing away from what the original ethos of what the designers intended (and something tells me that when the original designers pictured the 550 in their heads, it was in blazing, beautiful Red).
Edited by -DeaDLocK- on Sunday 20th August 19:10
Many thanks to all for an interesting debate, particularly to Deadlock whose comments seem to be much more contextually appropriate, and indeed you are correct in your assumptions regarding labour costs, quality of workmanship and owners' attitudes. That's not to say I don't value opinions of owners around the world.
Perhaps the question really is why do European owners fuss so much over originality? If I owned an E-type, I wouldn't be too keen on skating around on cross-plies. In fact, the Eagle E-type seems so much more desireable to me.
Perhaps the question really is why do European owners fuss so much over originality? If I owned an E-type, I wouldn't be too keen on skating around on cross-plies. In fact, the Eagle E-type seems so much more desireable to me.
Also, it just occured to me that you are probably in Dubai (right?), which means you are in an area with a fairly high concentration of exotica. This paint shop probably has worked on all manner of wonderful vehicles before, but it would still be a good idea I think to ask them for photos of their work or to go and check them out while they work on something expensive.
Knowing that fellow owners of special cars hand over their P&Js to be made over at the same place will probably rule out the only wild card I see in your plans - the workmanship.
Knowing that fellow owners of special cars hand over their P&Js to be made over at the same place will probably rule out the only wild card I see in your plans - the workmanship.
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