so the 3200 isn't a fan of track days!
Discussion
hi folks
took the 3200 to a track day (was hoping for rain for some more practice with those turbos coming on!) and had a great day except for a few small points...
brakes - anything more than 3 or 4 laps and they just couldn't take it. came in with smoke pouring off the fronts, the brake fluid boiled over, dripped onto exhaust manifold, caught fire and then melted the expansion tank (luckily it was only a tab in the corner!). so, uprated fluid is going in, probably use what i use on the race car, AP440.
looks like the power steering fluid boiled over also, it blew past the lid and sprayed about - wasn't expecting that.
the exhaust...burnt the hell out of the rear bumper, paint peeled off and nicely discoloured. bit pissed off about this one!!
really impressed with its on track handling, much more sporty than i expected, buckets of grip and plenty of confidence.
nothing got past me and i passed dozens of cars but even on the road i do notice that once the car hits 100 it does seem to run out of puff and at 120 doesn't seem to climb much more? it does get to 100 in a rampant fashion tho! just can't see it getting to 140, never mind 170?
anyone else tracked theirs?
cheers
steven
took the 3200 to a track day (was hoping for rain for some more practice with those turbos coming on!) and had a great day except for a few small points...
brakes - anything more than 3 or 4 laps and they just couldn't take it. came in with smoke pouring off the fronts, the brake fluid boiled over, dripped onto exhaust manifold, caught fire and then melted the expansion tank (luckily it was only a tab in the corner!). so, uprated fluid is going in, probably use what i use on the race car, AP440.
looks like the power steering fluid boiled over also, it blew past the lid and sprayed about - wasn't expecting that.
the exhaust...burnt the hell out of the rear bumper, paint peeled off and nicely discoloured. bit pissed off about this one!!
really impressed with its on track handling, much more sporty than i expected, buckets of grip and plenty of confidence.
nothing got past me and i passed dozens of cars but even on the road i do notice that once the car hits 100 it does seem to run out of puff and at 120 doesn't seem to climb much more? it does get to 100 in a rampant fashion tho! just can't see it getting to 140, never mind 170?
anyone else tracked theirs?
cheers
steven
Took mine to Folembray and then the Nurburgring over a long weekend earlier in the year.
See www.maseratilife.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=964&d=1156406164 for a photo (can't seem to get PHs to display this)
It got hot, but didn't boil anything over. Perhaps that was down to me being nervous about the long walk home if it blew up / lost an argument with the armco...
See www.maseratilife.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=964&d=1156406164 for a photo (can't seem to get PHs to display this)
It got hot, but didn't boil anything over. Perhaps that was down to me being nervous about the long walk home if it blew up / lost an argument with the armco...
Edited by bath of kylies on Monday 2nd October 08:50
i've been doing track days since i was about 18, so the last 6-7 years and never had a problem. you just have to be reasonably sensible and know your limits.
trackday insurance is prohibitively expensive!
to add to the damage bill from the day - the drivers side turbo to intercooler flexible pipe has been destroyed. i did think the car was getting slower towards the end of the day - now i know why!
trackday insurance is prohibitively expensive!
to add to the damage bill from the day - the drivers side turbo to intercooler flexible pipe has been destroyed. i did think the car was getting slower towards the end of the day - now i know why!
I just worked on the basis of having no insurance and not going mad,
although during two laps brakes faded big time and the cc gearbox
struggled selecting down a gear, which was fun coming into bends
The good thing about the Nurburgring is they operate an overtake on
the left only policy so you don't have to worry about somebody
stuffing you up the inside, one less thing to worry about.
Got some good overtakes in though, and the banked hairpin is great!!!
although during two laps brakes faded big time and the cc gearbox
struggled selecting down a gear, which was fun coming into bends
The good thing about the Nurburgring is they operate an overtake on
the left only policy so you don't have to worry about somebody
stuffing you up the inside, one less thing to worry about.
Got some good overtakes in though, and the banked hairpin is great!!!
I took my 3200 to Bruntigthorpe some months ago and whilst I did not have the skill to safely get it much over 150 I had a profesional driver (Aston Martin specialist from Shoeburyness) take me round it it and he managed just over 160 on three or four laps, the only real problem was that the brakes started to overheat and really began to smell, also the wear on the brakes made the fluid level drop so that the brake warning light came on.
catchme said:
But you managed to boil your steering fluid...?
Quite common on big cars. The steering has to work much harder around a track than on the road. Do Mazza offer a pipe with fins to help cooling?
Best advise in taking any car around a track is to restrict hard driving to one or two laps with a warm up / down lap either end. Then tell everyone what a racing driver you were for 15 minutes while the car cools down.
stevenm said:
brakes - anything more than 3 or 4 laps and they just couldn't take it. came in with smoke pouring off the fronts, the brake fluid boiled over, dripped onto exhaust manifold, caught fire and then melted the expansion tank (luckily it was only a tab in the corner!). so, uprated fluid is going in, probably use what i use on the race car, AP440.
Suggest you find the reason for the overheating brakes and correct that first. Most folks are aware, or should be, that the fluid needs changing at 2 year intervals - Ignore it and it will boil with heavy use. Another less well known fact is that the drill holes in the disc surfaces do get blocked with crud as they age severely restricting ventilation. They can be cleaned if you have the patience but frankly when they have got to this stage its usually time for a new set of discs. This is one of the reasons I never use second hand units. You problem is almost certainly one or the other or both. No disrespect but the Italian Test drivers totally thrash the living daylights out of these cars during testing - far far beyond what most of us consider sane let alone within our capabilities. If there was an inherrent braking problem, it would have been found in 1998 during development.
stevenm said:
looks like the power steering fluid boiled over also, it blew past the lid and sprayed about - wasn't expecting that.
Almost certainly a case of overfilling the reservoir as all 3200s are fitted with a PAS cooling radiator. stevenm said:
the exhaust...burnt the hell out of the rear bumper, paint peeled off and nicely discoloured
Check back boxes for gas leaks and ensure correct fitting as they probably misaligned. The 3 brackets for each rear box are fully adjustable and the 3 bolt pipe connectors use a swivel which allows practically any angle to be selected thus ensuring perfect fitment. stevenm said:
but even on the road i do notice that once the car hits 100 it does seem to run out of puff and at 120 doesn't seem to climb much more? it does get to 100 in a rampant fashion tho! just can't see it getting to 140, never mind 170?
Clearly a result of being massively down on power due to boost leakage judging from your other thread www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=312490&f=63&h=0 and later posts on this thread. hope this helps
>>Suggest you find the reason for the overheating brakes and correct that first.
Just over say 12 continues lap miles with at least two 130mph -> 30mph corners per lap. The pads and discs are new it's just a heavy car and I was demanding too much from the brakes.
>>Almost certainly a case of overfilling the reservoir as all 3200s are fitted with a PAS cooling radiator.
Good to know - I've only had the car a few weeks so haven't as yet gotten to grips with the maintanance or how it was previously maintained.
>>the exhaust...burnt the hell out of the rear bumper, paint peeled off and nicely discoloured
Check back boxes for gas leaks and ensure correct fitting as they probably misaligned. The 3 brackets for each rear box are fully adjustable and the 3 bolt pipe connectors use a swivel which allows practically any angle to be selected thus ensuring perfect fitment.
No gas blowing, the exhaust was just very hot - the whole rear bumper was very hot actually. They look well adjusted and in the centre of the whole.
>>but even on the road i do notice that once the car hits 100 it does seem to run out of puff and at 120 doesn't seem to climb much more? it does get to 100 in a rampant fashion tho! just can't see it getting to 140, never mind 170?
Clearly a result of being massively down on power due to boost leakage judging from your other thread www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic. and later posts on this thread.
Yes, but not sure when this happened - on the road before it always seemed to die when the box shifted into 4th around 120 - should it still pull well or dramatically slow down?
many thanks
steven
Just over say 12 continues lap miles with at least two 130mph -> 30mph corners per lap. The pads and discs are new it's just a heavy car and I was demanding too much from the brakes.
>>Almost certainly a case of overfilling the reservoir as all 3200s are fitted with a PAS cooling radiator.
Good to know - I've only had the car a few weeks so haven't as yet gotten to grips with the maintanance or how it was previously maintained.
>>the exhaust...burnt the hell out of the rear bumper, paint peeled off and nicely discoloured
Check back boxes for gas leaks and ensure correct fitting as they probably misaligned. The 3 brackets for each rear box are fully adjustable and the 3 bolt pipe connectors use a swivel which allows practically any angle to be selected thus ensuring perfect fitment.
No gas blowing, the exhaust was just very hot - the whole rear bumper was very hot actually. They look well adjusted and in the centre of the whole.
>>but even on the road i do notice that once the car hits 100 it does seem to run out of puff and at 120 doesn't seem to climb much more? it does get to 100 in a rampant fashion tho! just can't see it getting to 140, never mind 170?
Clearly a result of being massively down on power due to boost leakage judging from your other thread www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic. and later posts on this thread.
Yes, but not sure when this happened - on the road before it always seemed to die when the box shifted into 4th around 120 - should it still pull well or dramatically slow down?
many thanks
steven
stevenm said:
"Suggest you find the reason for the overheating brakes and correct that first."
Just over say 12 continues lap miles with at least two 130mph -> 30mph corners per lap. The pads and discs are new it's just a heavy car and I was demanding too much from the brakes.
Just over say 12 continues lap miles with at least two 130mph -> 30mph corners per lap. The pads and discs are new it's just a heavy car and I was demanding too much from the brakes.
and then said:
but even on the road i do notice that once the car hits 100 it does seem to run out of puff and at 120 doesn't seem to climb much more? it does get to 100 in a rampant fashion tho! just can't see it getting to 140, never mind 170?
Ignoring the apparent inconsistencies in the above 2 statements and without emphasizing my previous comment on old brake fluid being a suspect, I have 2 further thoughts:
- You say you had new "discs and pads" but do not say what grade pads. Since there are 4 different grades available, you could be using the wrong grade.
- In view of your probs on another thread with a flexible compressor connector "almost touching" the exhaust manifold which it plainly shouldn't, it suggests that at some time, the under tray may have been removed for access to the Intercoolers and associated compressor circuit pipework. If that's correct, the air conveyors may have been misaligned on refitting causing starvation of ducted air for brake cooling.
Finally, although this is relatively heavy car, the 4200 uses exactly the same brake setup and if anything is a touch heavier than the 3200. That did not stop the 4200 lapping Ferrari's Fiorano test track in 1' 35", a full second faster than a TR(1984) and identical times to a F512M (1995), 512TR (1992) and the 456GT. I have it on good authority that the 3200 was even quicker at Fiorano but have never been able to prove or disprove it.
Hope this helps
Edited by nigelo on Friday 13th October 23:46
hi nigelo
even with everything fixed again once the car shifts into 4th about 120 it does seem to loose acceleration more than i had expected but in saying that i haven't had the opportunity to get a decent enough stretch of road to get much over anyhow.
the discs and pads are brembo but i don't know what compound the pads are (must be quite hard as they tend to squeal when cold and dont have much bite). i doubt the brake fluid has ever been changed as this seems to always be neglated on cars - i'll put in some AP440 i think.
still not sure why flexible hose is close to exhaust manifold more than other cars as of course the exhaust manifold is in a fixed position and so is the turbo.
i'll post more fotos up of the work i did to replace the pipe.
cheers
steven
even with everything fixed again once the car shifts into 4th about 120 it does seem to loose acceleration more than i had expected but in saying that i haven't had the opportunity to get a decent enough stretch of road to get much over anyhow.
the discs and pads are brembo but i don't know what compound the pads are (must be quite hard as they tend to squeal when cold and dont have much bite). i doubt the brake fluid has ever been changed as this seems to always be neglated on cars - i'll put in some AP440 i think.
still not sure why flexible hose is close to exhaust manifold more than other cars as of course the exhaust manifold is in a fixed position and so is the turbo.
i'll post more fotos up of the work i did to replace the pipe.
cheers
steven
stevenm said:
hi nigelo
even with everything fixed again once the car shifts into 4th about 120 it does seem to loose acceleration more than i had expected but in saying that i haven't had the opportunity to get a decent enough stretch of road to get much over anyhow.
cheers
steven
even with everything fixed again once the car shifts into 4th about 120 it does seem to loose acceleration more than i had expected but in saying that i haven't had the opportunity to get a decent enough stretch of road to get much over anyhow.
cheers
steven
once mine hit about 120 the accelerative urge did slow slightly, dont forget, your long 4th gear is covering 2 gears range on the manual (does that make sense?) rest assured, it does get up to the higher speeds but just takes slightly longer to get there, its not often you are at those speeds generally anyway, and from my memory there was plenty of ooph to get you to that point anyway.
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