I sincerely hope Lamborghini wont run into trouble...
Discussion
And here was me hoping that VW would buy Lotus from Proton...
"Porsche's influence could spell Bugatti's end
Big changes are afoot at VW, as Martin Winterkorn, who, once just head of Audi, from yesterday becomes head of the VW brand; Ferdinand Piëch remains chairman. It could mean the end of VW's ownership of both Bugatti and Lamborghini.
Winterkorn replaces the departing Wolfgang Bernhard, whose tenure as head of VW ended yesterday. He was known as a restructuring expert who took a tough line on costs, so his departure means the current structure of dividing the Wolfsburg company's seven marques across the VW and Audi brand groups is to end, according to the FT today.
But the real powerhouses in the VW group remain Piëch and entryist Porsche boss Wendelin Wiedeking. Porsche owns about a third of VW which gives Wiedeking a seat on the board, even if, under a German law designed to prevent a foreign takeover of VW, he can't exercise more than about 20 per cent of his voting rights.
Wiedeking is said to be unhappy that Porsche is not the premium brand in the VW group -- and VW's three top-end marques, if you include Porsche, does look like too many for any company. According to Autocar, Wiedeking has even allegedly commissioned an special, high performance Porsche supercar to smash the Veyron's 252mph top speed record.
If Wiedeking has his way, Bugatti could be converted into an exclusive coachbuilding operation while Lamborghini could become VW's Aston Martin, and be sold off.
Meanwhile, rumours suggest former VW head Bernhard is thinking about heading back to former employer DaimlerChrysler, in order to front Chrysler's ailing US operations."
"Porsche's influence could spell Bugatti's end
Big changes are afoot at VW, as Martin Winterkorn, who, once just head of Audi, from yesterday becomes head of the VW brand; Ferdinand Piëch remains chairman. It could mean the end of VW's ownership of both Bugatti and Lamborghini.
Winterkorn replaces the departing Wolfgang Bernhard, whose tenure as head of VW ended yesterday. He was known as a restructuring expert who took a tough line on costs, so his departure means the current structure of dividing the Wolfsburg company's seven marques across the VW and Audi brand groups is to end, according to the FT today.
But the real powerhouses in the VW group remain Piëch and entryist Porsche boss Wendelin Wiedeking. Porsche owns about a third of VW which gives Wiedeking a seat on the board, even if, under a German law designed to prevent a foreign takeover of VW, he can't exercise more than about 20 per cent of his voting rights.
Wiedeking is said to be unhappy that Porsche is not the premium brand in the VW group -- and VW's three top-end marques, if you include Porsche, does look like too many for any company. According to Autocar, Wiedeking has even allegedly commissioned an special, high performance Porsche supercar to smash the Veyron's 252mph top speed record.
If Wiedeking has his way, Bugatti could be converted into an exclusive coachbuilding operation while Lamborghini could become VW's Aston Martin, and be sold off.
Meanwhile, rumours suggest former VW head Bernhard is thinking about heading back to former employer DaimlerChrysler, in order to front Chrysler's ailing US operations."
Edited by MJK 24 on Saturday 13th January 22:44
"standing by what I said yesterday":
Just my 2p's worth and in no particular order of importance.
As said previously the development cost of the Veyron has already been swallowed by the group. If Bugatti were allowed to put the technology that it has gleaned into a cheaper alternative to the Veyron it would still make most Supercars and lesser individuals a laughing stock. Whether you love or hate the Veyron it is truly an amazing car to drive. I have had the experience and I can tell you there are very few cars that I would be wanting to make small directional changes in at the plus side of 200 mph whilst the throttle was nailed rounding a french motorway left hand bend. In the Veyron this can be done without puckering up the leather on the drivers seat squab. It does not surprise me that Porsche would want to kill of the whole Bugatti project as it is a serious threat to both Lambo and Porsche in a cheaper guise.
Putting individual styling aside the Veyron is truly in a different league to any other supercar that has come before it, much like the Maca F1 was in its day.
Porsche are in it for the money like any business. They built the Cayenne because they did their market research and discovered that 90% of their customers owned 4x4's hence they produced their own. In reality since the Porsche 964 the build quality has suffered in a quest to reduce costs. They went to Japan for advice on reducing build costs from the development of the 993. They produce comepetent cars that are good looking but in my opinion having owned and raced a number of those old air cooled varieties they have very suspect build quaility. Porsche are aware that they have a serious engine and gearbox problems but hey why sort it out at huge expense whilst people still buy them in droves.
Lamborghini another proposition. I do not think that Audi's ownership has detracted from the mark. The Gallardo is extremely competent and the Murci is a lovely car. Just a shame they do not produce a Murci SV as I might be tempted to buy one. The Murci is still based upon the Countach chassis and Lambo desperately need a new chassis to move on with. 640bhp was deemed safe as at 700bhp the chassis's were twisting and I believe they can make 720bhp from the current engine quite comfortably.
So where do I think this will all end up. Bugatti will be sidelined into building a few bespoke vehicles and for a while they'll continue to service the chaps that have forked out 1.1 million euro's plus the vat for a new Veyron. I would be very pissed to have bought an expensive lemon and my guess would be that some of the customers might take matters into their own hands. Lamborghini will be sold to the far east and if not produced by THE factory they might as well stick a Hyundai badge on it and shove it up their a**e. Porsche will continue to make money and produce crap cars until those that keep buying them wake up and smell the roses, take their rose tinted spectacles off and vote with their cheque books. Then they might try and do something about it. Companies that are run by accountants and shareholders will never produce a proper car. They need to be run by Petrolheads.
Just my 2p's worth and in no particular order of importance.
As said previously the development cost of the Veyron has already been swallowed by the group. If Bugatti were allowed to put the technology that it has gleaned into a cheaper alternative to the Veyron it would still make most Supercars and lesser individuals a laughing stock. Whether you love or hate the Veyron it is truly an amazing car to drive. I have had the experience and I can tell you there are very few cars that I would be wanting to make small directional changes in at the plus side of 200 mph whilst the throttle was nailed rounding a french motorway left hand bend. In the Veyron this can be done without puckering up the leather on the drivers seat squab. It does not surprise me that Porsche would want to kill of the whole Bugatti project as it is a serious threat to both Lambo and Porsche in a cheaper guise.
Putting individual styling aside the Veyron is truly in a different league to any other supercar that has come before it, much like the Maca F1 was in its day.
Porsche are in it for the money like any business. They built the Cayenne because they did their market research and discovered that 90% of their customers owned 4x4's hence they produced their own. In reality since the Porsche 964 the build quality has suffered in a quest to reduce costs. They went to Japan for advice on reducing build costs from the development of the 993. They produce comepetent cars that are good looking but in my opinion having owned and raced a number of those old air cooled varieties they have very suspect build quaility. Porsche are aware that they have a serious engine and gearbox problems but hey why sort it out at huge expense whilst people still buy them in droves.
Lamborghini another proposition. I do not think that Audi's ownership has detracted from the mark. The Gallardo is extremely competent and the Murci is a lovely car. Just a shame they do not produce a Murci SV as I might be tempted to buy one. The Murci is still based upon the Countach chassis and Lambo desperately need a new chassis to move on with. 640bhp was deemed safe as at 700bhp the chassis's were twisting and I believe they can make 720bhp from the current engine quite comfortably.
So where do I think this will all end up. Bugatti will be sidelined into building a few bespoke vehicles and for a while they'll continue to service the chaps that have forked out 1.1 million euro's plus the vat for a new Veyron. I would be very pissed to have bought an expensive lemon and my guess would be that some of the customers might take matters into their own hands. Lamborghini will be sold to the far east and if not produced by THE factory they might as well stick a Hyundai badge on it and shove it up their a**e. Porsche will continue to make money and produce crap cars until those that keep buying them wake up and smell the roses, take their rose tinted spectacles off and vote with their cheque books. Then they might try and do something about it. Companies that are run by accountants and shareholders will never produce a proper car. They need to be run by Petrolheads.
graeme73s said:
Porsche will continue to make money and produce crap cars until those that keep buying them wake up and smell the roses, take their rose tinted spectacles off and vote with their cheque books.
I think that might be a long way off when you consider the responses you see in F/L vs P threads in the Porsche forum(totally one sided/obsessive).
Freaky Lady said:
Hi so what can we do to protect Lamborghini etc?
Aside from buying the cars and voicing your opinion, not a lot. As Greame points out (and I've mentioned previously) few car companys are run by petrolheads, or even engineers for that matter.
Horracio Pagani can do what he does because his business is small and he can control all aspects of design, styling, testing and production. Once you decide you're going to build 1000 or 2000 cars a year you have to employ pen pushers to crunch numbers.
Expect TVR to slide slowly down the toilet for the same reason. When the guys in charge treat it like a business, the products will be anodyne.
Apologies to any accountants here. I don't mean to denegrate their profession or suggest that all accountants are bean counters. But the worst ones do seem to get to the very top in the car industry.
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