Lamborghini's - do they make their power ?

[Mosi]

There if often quite a bit of debate on various forums regarding your typical 'Italian Horsepower' and how this compares to the typically precise/well over-engineered 'German Horsepower' (in other words, are some of our well loved Italian Supercar makers using a bit too much poetic licence when stating power figures!).

Has anyone on here ever put their Lambo (or Ferrari for that matter) on a rolling road ? and if so, did the cars make the stated manufacturer power figures at the flywheel ?

I ran a Porsche Rolling Rd day at Weltmeister's (Silverstone Business Park) last year, and the orange MY03 Murci that turned up was well short on its quoted power (maybe it was having an off day)

Just curious really (I suppose I could stick the Gallardo on a dyno if I was that bothered - but I fear for its clutch too much when in other peoples hands!)

Has anyone any experience of rolling roads in their Italian Exotica ?

[andysv]

lambo dyno runs are on lambopower website, from memory a murcie was making 450ish at the wheels, www.lambopower.com/forum/

[Mosi]

andysv said:

lambo dyno runs are on lambopower website, from memory a murcie was making 450ish at the wheels, www.lambopower.com/forum/

Cheers Andy, although it looks like you are going to force me to register on Lamboforums in order to see anything. Just what I need...another forum to take up half my life!

[andysv]

ok here's what they say, the results vary a bit.

murcie std...433bhp/390lbs
diablo 6ltr std...457bhp/406lbs with test pipes...470bhp/416lbs
murcie std(102octane)...475bhp/425lbs
gallardo tuned race car...519bhp
diablo sv std...392bhp
diablo 6ltr(race exh)...452bhp(with nitrous)548bhp!

all figs were power @wheels on different dynos.
i did say they vary a bit!

Edited by andysv on Monday 22 January 21:01

[sjn2004]

EVO do dyno runs in their tests thesedays, FWIW, both the 612 and 599 had higher figures than manufacturers claims.

[Jonny5]

gotta like that


murcie std...433bhp/390lbs
diablo 6ltr std...457bhp/406lbs with test pipes...470bhp/416lbs

[vixpy1]

Done a fair few Ferrari's, and the older ones tend to be closer to spec than the newer ones (however, have not done any of the newest models)


Never done a Lambo.. though, always willing

[andysv]

bear in mind these are usa spec cars, plus i'm sure the 4wd has an effect on the final readings.

[vixpy1]

andysv said:

bear in mind these are usa spec cars, plus i'm sure the 4wd has an effect on the final readings.

Yes it will, however i'm presuming these were done on US dynos in the states.. Which means they will be high whp readings compared to UK, Europe or Australia

[Big T]

When I had my 360 Dyno'd it made 358.1bhp at the wheels, twice.

Only had the TUBI fitted then and CATS were still in. Think that equated to 405bhp or there abouts.

Did feel a quick car though.

[Mosi]

Big T said:

When I had my 360 Dyno'd it made 358.1bhp at the wheels, twice.

Only had the TUBI fitted then and CATS were still in. Think that equated to 405bhp or there abouts.

Did feel a quick car though.

Your average 2wd transmission will lose circa 15-20% in transmission losses from the flywheel to the actual wheels, in a 4wd drive car the losses are even higher obviously (circa 20-30%)

So, if your 360 was dyno'ed at 358.1bhp ATW, then it would be somewhere around 420-447bhp flywheel or 476-506 bhp with the modifications

Seem's quite high to me.

What are they standard ?

Also, who's / which dyno did you use?

[Big T]

Mosi said:

Big T said:

When I had my 360 Dyno'd it made 358.1bhp at the wheels, twice.

Only had the TUBI fitted then and CATS were still in. Think that equated to 405bhp or there abouts.

Did feel a quick car though.

Your average 2wd transmission will lose circa 15-20% in transmission losses from the flywheel to the actual wheels, in a 4wd drive car the losses are even higher obviously (circa 20-30%)

So, if your 360 was dyno'ed at 358.1bhp ATW, then it would be somewhere around 420-447bhp flywheel or 476-506 bhp with the modifications

Seem's quite high to me.

What are they standard ?

Also, who's / which dyno did you use?

Ferrari states 400bhp for a standard Modena, then I think the TUBI adds IIRC approx 10 horses. Karl @ Verdi's always said he was sure this car must have had an ECU upgrade before I purchased it. Forgot where I dyno'd it but have the paperwork at home so will dig it out later.

It was a very quick 360, I know that much

[Mr Whippy]

Extract from www.pumaracing.co.uk/POWER3.htm

Pumaracing said:

Converting wheel bhp to flywheel bhp and vice versa

To reflect the fact that % losses are high for low powered cars and vice versa I use the following equations which have been found to correlate well with real world transmission losses.

FWD cars - add 10 bhp to the wheel figure and divide the result by 0.9

RWD cars - add 10 bhp to the wheel figure and divide the result by 0.88

4WD cars - add 10bhp to the wheel figure and divide the result by 0.84

To estimate the expected wheel bhp from a known flywheel bhp just reverse the equations

FWD - multiply flywheel power by 0.9 and then deduct a further 10 bhp

RWD - multiply flywheel power by 0.88 and then deduct a further 10 bhp

4WD - multiply flywheel power by 0.84 and then deduct a further 10 bhp

These always seem to match up nicely, and applied to Dyno Dynamics rollers (Evo use these) numbers they appear accurate (DD rollers don't use coastdown, but estimate/calculate losses to get consistent flywheel figures. Shame Evo don't give the @ wheels figures really.

Another good indicator of power is the 1/4 mile ET speed. From what I've seen of Murcielago's times (mainly US, they love their drag strips ), they are putting out as good as factory outputs and above losses to get them over the line as fast as they are going!

Dave

Edited by Mr Whippy on Tuesday 23 January 10:14

[15hn]

I know of two CS's dynoed (one was my own). As standard cars they produced 390hp (at the crank).

I used Weltmeister (post mods) and the car showed an increase but that was after spending a few thousand.

I'll probably get the LP tested at Weltmeister once I've got a few miles on it.

[vixpy1]

Mosi said:

Big T said:

When I had my 360 Dyno'd it made 358.1bhp at the wheels, twice.

Only had the TUBI fitted then and CATS were still in. Think that equated to 405bhp or there abouts.

Did feel a quick car though.

Your average 2wd transmission will lose circa 15-20% in transmission losses from the flywheel to the actual wheels, in a 4wd drive car the losses are even higher obviously (circa 20-30%)

So, if your 360 was dyno'ed at 358.1bhp ATW, then it would be somewhere around 420-447bhp flywheel or 476-506 bhp with the modifications

Seem's quite high to me.

What are they standard ?

Also, who's / which dyno did you use?

Willing to bet its a dynojet or mustang dyno. Not a problem in itself, but because the wheel figs are so much higher, you must apply a much smaller loss. Otherwise you just end up with a craaazy figure.

[pentoman]

Here's the graph for a colleague's 348 tb, decat with tubi and some carbon intake thingys?? For anyone that's interested. Should be 300bhp at flywheel stock.

www.vr6oc.co.uk/events/RR/powerstation/251106/K521KHK.pdf

[nightmare]

I have the traces from my (now ex ) modified one on the dyno at Cranfield University...producing 631.2 max...were on my old PC but I asusme I have them somewhere. Will try and find and post em up

[Bebs]

Big T said:

Did feel a quick car though.

It would do though wouldn't it.. the way you drive

[Big T]

Bebs said:

Big T said:

Did feel a quick car though.

It would do though wouldn't it.. the way you drive

No one drives a Fezza like Big T, hence the amount of problems I had with it and new clutches!!!

At least I drove it properly unlike lots of Fezza owners who stare at them in their garages, do about 6k a year in it and would faint at the thought of driving it in snow/rain/fog!!!

Like you mate, we drive ours, how many K's you got on the Red One now Donnie???

Edited by Big T on Tuesday 23 January 14:04

[Bebs]

97,000 K