Murcielago prices? Whats going on?
Discussion
Guys,
It seems that murcielagos are a pig to sell/trade and they seem to hang around forever before selling. Why then have the asking prices not really dropped below 100K?
What does the future hold for the Murcielago now... especially the 02 and 03 models? A reasonably slow moving market consistently priced around 100-105K retail and 85-90K trade price?
Anyone know this car that Amari has?
http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/
Cheers
Ade
It seems that murcielagos are a pig to sell/trade and they seem to hang around forever before selling. Why then have the asking prices not really dropped below 100K?
What does the future hold for the Murcielago now... especially the 02 and 03 models? A reasonably slow moving market consistently priced around 100-105K retail and 85-90K trade price?
Anyone know this car that Amari has?
http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/
Cheers
Ade
Hi,
I think there are 2 sides to the murci coin, the side you don't see are all the cars that sell and trade between owners through word of mouth or dealers existing waiting lists etc, that probably accounts for all the really good well kept murci's. There are quite a few murci's with "history" about - you only have to check out stuff like wreckedexotics.com to see the results of when enthusiasm overtakes ability in the laws of physics equations, as a result i think since murci's have a core group of supporters and are usually a well researched purchase then most people take advice and steer clear of the wrong uns.
For the record a murci went for about 90K at Joe Macari to someone from the board. I think you are right, they will get to a certain price point and just hover there according to supply and demand as the diablo has done, thats simply due to the amount of cars is so few, and at lower price points the number of potential owners opens up beyond the cars available so depreciation slows.
Murci's are slow sellers, but to be fair to a lot of owners moving up the supercar ranks my 523TR took nearly 2.5 years to sell - it really is a question of finding the right buyer for the car. these are not impulse purchases, so in that respect don't expect to be able to trade the car quickly, dealers always seem to bid low on them because they could be stuck with the car for a year clocking up interest.
How quickly you could sell your murci depends on what you buy and how well you look out for it. I think there is a gentle trickle of buyers.
Regarding the car you pointed out, speak to some of the other LCUK guys about him, i nearly bought a Ferrari off him some years ago in his colourful past, and i know a lot of LCUK owners are shall we say "unhappy" with his service, i have noticed ferrari owners seem to have more positive comments, so it seems to be just us Lambo boys that get the worst of him.
Personally i would speak to Dion and get him to source you a car. "dat boy got skills".
My view of the trade is this, "the best dealers don't need to advertise much, since they have enough customers to keep them busy through good experiences of others".
The UK market is very fickle for supercars, personally i've gone the LHD route and ordered my new LP640 demo car in france - it makes it easier for me to re-reg the car under their nightmare system when i head back to the med, there is a much bigger market for LHD murci's on the continent, and some favourable euro trading and difference in VAT has meant i managed to get my LP640 with every single option fitted for much less than a spartan UK car.
Of course the trade off is nightmare driving in the UK, but since the car is our company demonstrator (my new business is in supercar hire and leasing but we do a lot of import/export of LHD stuff around the globe) - as most of my clients are wealthy russians these days it needed to be LHD to keep our visiting customers happy. The car will spend most of its time on the continent doing the furballs, candyruns and Gumballs and and it makes life at lot easier in the US when we do cannonballs and other global PR stunts.
My overall advice to you is to speak to the other murci owners such as simonspider who know a lot about these cars, speak to the LCUK first about who THEY recommend you to buy a murci from, and get a inspection done by someone like Mike Pullens. it can save you 10 grand or more if the car is bent and is money well spent.
As for long term, I think the Murci is a fairly safe bet at around the 100-110K mark, the lowest i have seen so far is 90K and all our LHD ones are still about 80-85 but were cheaper new anyway.
Top end cars around 150K or more will suffer more i think, simply because of the LP640 factor, i drove a VT, then i went to germany to drive a LP640 and the difference really is phenomenal, as a first time buy the VT is a lot easier to handle (explains maybe why so many LP's have been stacked quickly?) - if you take a liberty with the LP it bites your leg off. Even with 10 years of driving serious HP exotics the car intimidates me at full burn and is not nearly as forgiving as the VT, reminds me a lot of my 512TR, onceits gone it really is gone.
But in conclusion, i think if you buy one you won't regret it, but choose your dealer carefully. given what your buying you need to trust the guy more than your priest.
My real feeling is the reason you see a lot of murcis hanging around in autotrade is the dealers holding them, Lamborghini's are not run of the mill, you need to buy a car froma enthusiast dealer such as Carlo or Dion or buy direct from the owner through asking around other murci owners on the board and the LCUK club. since a lot of advertised cars can end up being SOR imho you are better of tracking down the owner (if you are serious and have money to spend) and going down the pub with him to talk about the car.
good luck!
I think there are 2 sides to the murci coin, the side you don't see are all the cars that sell and trade between owners through word of mouth or dealers existing waiting lists etc, that probably accounts for all the really good well kept murci's. There are quite a few murci's with "history" about - you only have to check out stuff like wreckedexotics.com to see the results of when enthusiasm overtakes ability in the laws of physics equations, as a result i think since murci's have a core group of supporters and are usually a well researched purchase then most people take advice and steer clear of the wrong uns.
For the record a murci went for about 90K at Joe Macari to someone from the board. I think you are right, they will get to a certain price point and just hover there according to supply and demand as the diablo has done, thats simply due to the amount of cars is so few, and at lower price points the number of potential owners opens up beyond the cars available so depreciation slows.
Murci's are slow sellers, but to be fair to a lot of owners moving up the supercar ranks my 523TR took nearly 2.5 years to sell - it really is a question of finding the right buyer for the car. these are not impulse purchases, so in that respect don't expect to be able to trade the car quickly, dealers always seem to bid low on them because they could be stuck with the car for a year clocking up interest.
How quickly you could sell your murci depends on what you buy and how well you look out for it. I think there is a gentle trickle of buyers.
Regarding the car you pointed out, speak to some of the other LCUK guys about him, i nearly bought a Ferrari off him some years ago in his colourful past, and i know a lot of LCUK owners are shall we say "unhappy" with his service, i have noticed ferrari owners seem to have more positive comments, so it seems to be just us Lambo boys that get the worst of him.
Personally i would speak to Dion and get him to source you a car. "dat boy got skills".
My view of the trade is this, "the best dealers don't need to advertise much, since they have enough customers to keep them busy through good experiences of others".
The UK market is very fickle for supercars, personally i've gone the LHD route and ordered my new LP640 demo car in france - it makes it easier for me to re-reg the car under their nightmare system when i head back to the med, there is a much bigger market for LHD murci's on the continent, and some favourable euro trading and difference in VAT has meant i managed to get my LP640 with every single option fitted for much less than a spartan UK car.
Of course the trade off is nightmare driving in the UK, but since the car is our company demonstrator (my new business is in supercar hire and leasing but we do a lot of import/export of LHD stuff around the globe) - as most of my clients are wealthy russians these days it needed to be LHD to keep our visiting customers happy. The car will spend most of its time on the continent doing the furballs, candyruns and Gumballs and and it makes life at lot easier in the US when we do cannonballs and other global PR stunts.
My overall advice to you is to speak to the other murci owners such as simonspider who know a lot about these cars, speak to the LCUK first about who THEY recommend you to buy a murci from, and get a inspection done by someone like Mike Pullens. it can save you 10 grand or more if the car is bent and is money well spent.
As for long term, I think the Murci is a fairly safe bet at around the 100-110K mark, the lowest i have seen so far is 90K and all our LHD ones are still about 80-85 but were cheaper new anyway.
Top end cars around 150K or more will suffer more i think, simply because of the LP640 factor, i drove a VT, then i went to germany to drive a LP640 and the difference really is phenomenal, as a first time buy the VT is a lot easier to handle (explains maybe why so many LP's have been stacked quickly?) - if you take a liberty with the LP it bites your leg off. Even with 10 years of driving serious HP exotics the car intimidates me at full burn and is not nearly as forgiving as the VT, reminds me a lot of my 512TR, onceits gone it really is gone.
But in conclusion, i think if you buy one you won't regret it, but choose your dealer carefully. given what your buying you need to trust the guy more than your priest.
My real feeling is the reason you see a lot of murcis hanging around in autotrade is the dealers holding them, Lamborghini's are not run of the mill, you need to buy a car froma enthusiast dealer such as Carlo or Dion or buy direct from the owner through asking around other murci owners on the board and the LCUK club. since a lot of advertised cars can end up being SOR imho you are better of tracking down the owner (if you are serious and have money to spend) and going down the pub with him to talk about the car.
good luck!
Yes Phil,
it was my mum's 60th Birthday, and since i just got divorced i'm leaving my tart/mistress behind to take care of my dear old mum,and giving her a 60th year to remember by taking her on the Viking run and Alpine Runs. the slower pace is more her thing than the frenetic gumball, so i will be missing gumball this year and doing both Furballs, then probably the candy run (with tart in tow for that obviously. my mum isnt going to know about it so shhhh!!)
If all goes to plan (and lambo/the french dealer/TVA/DVLA) dont mess up, we should have our LP640 in time for the viking tour and Gallardo spyder in time for the Alpine Run.
We are expecting the Gallardo any day now and the LP is overdue by eons, but should have a confirmed date this month so we are hoping to book in our places with furball this month.
Looking forward to it. LOADS!
it was my mum's 60th Birthday, and since i just got divorced i'm leaving my tart/mistress behind to take care of my dear old mum,and giving her a 60th year to remember by taking her on the Viking run and Alpine Runs. the slower pace is more her thing than the frenetic gumball, so i will be missing gumball this year and doing both Furballs, then probably the candy run (with tart in tow for that obviously. my mum isnt going to know about it so shhhh!!)
If all goes to plan (and lambo/the french dealer/TVA/DVLA) dont mess up, we should have our LP640 in time for the viking tour and Gallardo spyder in time for the Alpine Run.
We are expecting the Gallardo any day now and the LP is overdue by eons, but should have a confirmed date this month so we are hoping to book in our places with furball this month.
Looking forward to it. LOADS!
CUE99T said:
The view is purely on the ownership tag:
1. Buyers want them under 100k
2. Sellers want them over 100k
3. Talkers say their worth 80k
I have one word for you Ade - PREP.
1. Buyers want them under 100k
2. Sellers want them over 100k
3. Talkers say their worth 80k
I have one word for you Ade - PREP.
Edited by CUE99T on Thursday 5th April 10:39
that about sums up the motor trade in a single post.
well done
I'm not sure what the market prices are, But I wouldn't sell my car for less than £118k even then I'd need a kicker of some kind as what the hell would I change too? without having to spend an additional £200k+ on a Zonda. I think subconciously owners price their cars realative to when they are mentally ready to part with them, that considered, I'm open to offers of £130k + 
lambofool said:
I'm not sure what the market prices are, But I wouldn't sell my car for less than £118k even then I'd need a kicker of some kind as what the hell would I change too? without having to spend an additional £200k+ on a Zonda. I think subconciously owners price their cars realative to when they are mentally ready to part with them, that considered, I'm open to offers of £130k +
Can you sell my car for me, I'm liking your marketing skills!!!
TBH it would take over 100k for me to part too as I'm into a 4k bill this month I reckon between service and tyres, although that car that starts with a Z.....a can't get it out of my tiny little mind either!
I'd agree with Mandeep in terms of dead mans territory in terms of upgrades, maybe the prices are a bit off , Mandeeps obviously being desirable with it's lower owner, mint condition, colour , Roadster wheels, low mileage no history ..... but where do you go from there?
Edited by Jonny5 on Sunday 8th April 11:38
Guys,
Maybe thats part of the problem - in not having "anywhere to go next" - many Murcie owners are in fact only half-hearted sellers. Where DOES one go after a Murcie??? Unless you are laying big bucks into a 'egg or a Zonda, what else is there? I can't see many people going back to the dancing donkey team once they have tasted the "dark side"...so that only really leaves the LP.
I have the same conundrum myself - my late 52 plate (03 model) Murcie is probably worth sub £95k - probably a lot less in the "trade" - and so to "step-up" to an LP640 I will have to be laying probably £100k into the deal - for a car that 99.9% of the populous could not tell apart from my current model and which yes - drives better at the top end - but how much of this extra performance can we actually use on every drive??
I think Murcie prices will start to plateau at around £80-90k - there's a finite number of RHD ones about and "bang for the buck" wise there's not much to touch them - especially if you count the visual "drama" and "sense of occasion" into the equation - even Diablo prices seem to be flattening.
So here's MY particular dilemna - do I stump up £100k and part-ex the Murcie in for an LP640 - knowing that it will probably lose a good chunk, if not indeed all, of that over the next two years (espacially when the all new Murcie replacement hits the roads in 09).
OR.....do I say sod it........keep the Murcie in tip top condition - use it like it was meant to be used - and accept the fact that whilst it will lose some money, but that the depreciation curve is becoming increasingly shallow - and instead use the £100k to buy another "toy" (in my case a Ford GT) and have change left over to run them both for the next two years.
I'd love an LP640 - but I can see that in two years or so - someone will be posting the exact same question on these forums - but about the LP - and we will all be saying exactly the same things we are saying above.
....and I know we are into this "lifestyle" because we are passionate and we shouldnt care about the money.....but I personally am probably gonna let my head do the talking and invest said cash into another car - one which is unlikely to depreciate at the same rate - always better to let somebody else take the first hit!!
In saying that I will probably talk myself into "splitting" (you know how we do this sort of self justification thing - the one when we can convince ourselves that it's actually really a rather good deal and makes a huge amount of logical and commerical sense!) the "pot" and putting some into a Ford GT and let my deposit at the Porsche Centre for the cancelled 997TT (way tooo boring!) roll over and pick up the first 997GT2 -......... and in doing so BLOWING all the money I've hypothetically saved by not buying the LP !!!! Hey ...but at least I will have three GREAT cars!....and they will all be paid for ....and they won't depreciate as fast as that damned LP640.....and I will have a car for every occasion .......etc. etc. etc.
Damn....I need to find a different passion....stamp collecting or something!
Maybe thats part of the problem - in not having "anywhere to go next" - many Murcie owners are in fact only half-hearted sellers. Where DOES one go after a Murcie??? Unless you are laying big bucks into a 'egg or a Zonda, what else is there? I can't see many people going back to the dancing donkey team once they have tasted the "dark side"...so that only really leaves the LP.
I have the same conundrum myself - my late 52 plate (03 model) Murcie is probably worth sub £95k - probably a lot less in the "trade" - and so to "step-up" to an LP640 I will have to be laying probably £100k into the deal - for a car that 99.9% of the populous could not tell apart from my current model and which yes - drives better at the top end - but how much of this extra performance can we actually use on every drive??
I think Murcie prices will start to plateau at around £80-90k - there's a finite number of RHD ones about and "bang for the buck" wise there's not much to touch them - especially if you count the visual "drama" and "sense of occasion" into the equation - even Diablo prices seem to be flattening.
So here's MY particular dilemna - do I stump up £100k and part-ex the Murcie in for an LP640 - knowing that it will probably lose a good chunk, if not indeed all, of that over the next two years (espacially when the all new Murcie replacement hits the roads in 09).
OR.....do I say sod it........keep the Murcie in tip top condition - use it like it was meant to be used - and accept the fact that whilst it will lose some money, but that the depreciation curve is becoming increasingly shallow - and instead use the £100k to buy another "toy" (in my case a Ford GT) and have change left over to run them both for the next two years.
I'd love an LP640 - but I can see that in two years or so - someone will be posting the exact same question on these forums - but about the LP - and we will all be saying exactly the same things we are saying above.
....and I know we are into this "lifestyle" because we are passionate and we shouldnt care about the money.....but I personally am probably gonna let my head do the talking and invest said cash into another car - one which is unlikely to depreciate at the same rate - always better to let somebody else take the first hit!!
In saying that I will probably talk myself into "splitting" (you know how we do this sort of self justification thing - the one when we can convince ourselves that it's actually really a rather good deal and makes a huge amount of logical and commerical sense!) the "pot" and putting some into a Ford GT and let my deposit at the Porsche Centre for the cancelled 997TT (way tooo boring!) roll over and pick up the first 997GT2 -......... and in doing so BLOWING all the money I've hypothetically saved by not buying the LP !!!! Hey ...but at least I will have three GREAT cars!....and they will all be paid for ....and they won't depreciate as fast as that damned LP640.....and I will have a car for every occasion .......etc. etc. etc.
Damn....I need to find a different passion....stamp collecting or something!
Edited by dealmaker on Sunday 8th April 01:02
dealmaker said:
OR.....do I say sod it........keep the Murcie in tip top condition - use it like it was meant to be used - and accept the fact that whilst it will lose some money, but that the depreciation curve is becoming increasingly shallow - and instead use the £100k to buy another "toy" (in my case a Ford GT) and have change left over to run them both for the next two years.
I am probably one of the biggest lambo fanatics. But like you said yourself. Keep the muric and split. Two 'toys', one lot of fun. Why get another murci when it will only have 'top end use'. It's not practical as they say. But not only that have some fun while your there
lambofool said:
I'm really taken by the GT, been ogling Jasons black one, sounds amazing and has real road presence. If I had a spare car park spot and if I could get away with my wife not knowing I had bought one.. I would buy one in a hot minute!!
hey fool, you must have forgotten the plan ......
cummingsa said:
nopantshans said:
and the LP is overdue by eons, but should have a confirmed date this month
Join the club!! Si and I have been waiting 9 months now for ours and it still hasn't gone into build!!!
Andy
If it's any consolation I saw lots of lp640 coupés on the production line (but more Roadsters) .... on friday
8 Gallardos come off the line a day, same cannot be said for the LP
Jonny5 said:
cummingsa said:
nopantshans said:
and the LP is overdue by eons, but should have a confirmed date this month
Join the club!! Si and I have been waiting 9 months now for ours and it still hasn't gone into build!!!
Andy
If it's any consolation I saw lots of lp640 coupés on the production line (but more Roadsters) .... on friday
8 Gallardos come off the line a day, same cannot be said for the LP
Thanks Johnny, lets just hope one of them is ours!
Andy.
How was New York?
Hi Andy 
Hope you are well.... New York was fantastic but incredibly busy..... but if I eat any more burgers , or anything with Cheese i'd come back as Fat Stig
Still in Italy, on a deckchair next to Lake Garda at Villa Feltrinelli. Factory experience was amazing, when you see the real passion that goes into making the cars. It almost feels like betrayal to even think of any other manufacturer
Lots of pictures to follow when I get back .... But that's a seperate thread
Hope you are well.... New York was fantastic but incredibly busy..... but if I eat any more burgers , or anything with Cheese i'd come back as Fat Stig Still in Italy, on a deckchair next to Lake Garda at Villa Feltrinelli. Factory experience was amazing, when you see the real passion that goes into making the cars. It almost feels like betrayal to even think of any other manufacturer
Lots of pictures to follow when I get back .... But that's a seperate thread
Thanks for your thoughts fellas.
If any Murcielago owners out there find themselves about to trade or P/X their car in, do get in touch with me either here or on www.clubscuderia.co.uk - my username is Ade.
Cheers
Ade
If any Murcielago owners out there find themselves about to trade or P/X their car in, do get in touch with me either here or on www.clubscuderia.co.uk - my username is Ade.
Cheers
Ade
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