Finance Question - Proof of Income?
Discussion
Hello,
I am asking this question on behalf of my brother who earns his living through professional gambling and has done so for the past year or so.
He therefore pays no income tax and is effectively unemployed in the eyes of the revenue, however he would say 'not employed' or 'living by independent means'!! lol
So as a result of this way of life he does not have a regular salary but does however earn regular and consistent amounts every month so can plan financially. He could prove his income for the past year by way of bank statements with his winnings from the various betting companies he uses.
What he wishes to know Is what are the chances that he would be able to get a car on finance with his circumstances?
He is looking at a Ferrari 360 Spider and was looking to put around £20k down, finance £10k and have a 50% (30k) balloon, over 24 months the repayments are £740 a month.
Is there anywhere he could get this?
Does his status matter because the debt is secured upon the vehicle and he is putting down a very large deposit?
He would love to get this as it is his dream car but does not have 60k to be spending at the moment on one asset.
Any ideas guys?
kind regards,
Thomas
I am asking this question on behalf of my brother who earns his living through professional gambling and has done so for the past year or so.
He therefore pays no income tax and is effectively unemployed in the eyes of the revenue, however he would say 'not employed' or 'living by independent means'!! lol
So as a result of this way of life he does not have a regular salary but does however earn regular and consistent amounts every month so can plan financially. He could prove his income for the past year by way of bank statements with his winnings from the various betting companies he uses.
What he wishes to know Is what are the chances that he would be able to get a car on finance with his circumstances?
He is looking at a Ferrari 360 Spider and was looking to put around £20k down, finance £10k and have a 50% (30k) balloon, over 24 months the repayments are £740 a month.
Is there anywhere he could get this?
Does his status matter because the debt is secured upon the vehicle and he is putting down a very large deposit?
He would love to get this as it is his dream car but does not have 60k to be spending at the moment on one asset.
Any ideas guys?
kind regards,
Thomas
Edited by holtender_01 on Thursday 12th June 06:00
jleroux said:
can't see it being a problem - i've only ever been asked to provide bank statements for any form of finance (mortgages included) - never payslips.
Jonny
Yeah that is pretty much the case; more often than not the finance company won't ask for any proof of income at all, depending on your brothers credit status obviously. But if he is clean and has a regular income he should be OK. Jonny
I test drove, ordered and subsequently bought (with finance equal to about 65% of the purchase price) a brand new BMW, at 24 years old and not once did the BMW main dealer ask to see my driving license, or for any proof of income in any form whatsoever, so I doubt he'll have a problem. I have to say, I admire the balls of someone who buys a Ferrari on finance with only gambling to fund the repayments!
Thanks for the replies guys.
Sounds promising then.
To be honest it is not really gambling - as in backing horses, football teams, which involves huge risk.
More like trading really.
It is much more consistent, predictable and low risk.
He could afford to buy the car outright as far as i know but would rather not and put his money elsewhere so if something did go wrong he does have an insurance policy as it were!
Sounds promising then.
To be honest it is not really gambling - as in backing horses, football teams, which involves huge risk.
More like trading really.
It is much more consistent, predictable and low risk.
He could afford to buy the car outright as far as i know but would rather not and put his money elsewhere so if something did go wrong he does have an insurance policy as it were!
Edited by holtender_01 on Thursday 12th June 05:45
I'm going to buck the trend and say he'll run into problems . I've heard of people with top notch credit reports , a several times multiplier of the value of the car in cash in their accounts , perm employment and still refused
As a lender I would see this applicant as a risky as there is no contractual employment (self or otherwise) and no leads to a regular or consistent salary as such
As a lender I would see this applicant as a risky as there is no contractual employment (self or otherwise) and no leads to a regular or consistent salary as such
jonny5 said:
I'm going to buck the trend and say he'll run into problems . I've heard of people with top notch credit reports , a several times multiplier of the value of the car in cash in their accounts , perm employment and still refused
As a lender I would see this applicant as a risky as there is no contractual employment (self or otherwise) and no leads to a regular or consistent salary as such
This is what I though when he mentioned it.As a lender I would see this applicant as a risky as there is no contractual employment (self or otherwise) and no leads to a regular or consistent salary as such
From the lenders point of view, yes, high risk.
Do you think it would make a difference if he said he was 'living by independent means' it is an option he has seen on car insurance forms before.
It gives the impression of being wealthy enough to not work but not officially retired ... I think it is an option as he does not have to mention where he gets his income from.
holtender_01 said:
jonny5 said:
I'm going to buck the trend and say he'll run into problems . I've heard of people with top notch credit reports , a several times multiplier of the value of the car in cash in their accounts , perm employment and still refused
As a lender I would see this applicant as a risky as there is no contractual employment (self or otherwise) and no leads to a regular or consistent salary as such
This is what I though when he mentioned it.As a lender I would see this applicant as a risky as there is no contractual employment (self or otherwise) and no leads to a regular or consistent salary as such
From the lenders point of view, yes, high risk.
Do you think it would make a difference if he said he was 'living by independent means' it is an option he has seen on car insurance forms before.
It gives the impression of being wealthy enough to not work but not officially retired ... I think it is an option as he does not have to mention where he gets his income from.
I work for a rental company albeit cheaper items than 360 Spiders and we always look for proof of regular income as opposed to a set salary coming in each month. As long as he can prove that good amounts are crediting his bank account and back it up with statements then provided he has good credit history, it shouldn't count against him. Good luck!
GreigM said:
sjn2004 said:
If he's paying all this money into UK bank accounts, won't the Inland Revenue catch up at some point?
yup, they certainly will - and driving a 360 around when you're technically unemployed is the quick way to tax issuesThey said as gambling and spread betting are not taxable under UK law they were not interested unless the law changed, but that is very unlikely.
He make sure he got this in writing, and has a letter from the revenue saying that his income is not in anyway taxable and will not be in the foreseeable future.
What I would say is that about a year ago I would have said no problem at all.
In the last 6-8 months lenders seem to have got a lot lot tighter on borrowers in terms of borrowing money, whatever the reason (mortgage / loans etc)
When I bought my 996TT back a few years I borrowed over £60k and all the credit company wanted was a utility bill, nothing else. That same company is now asking for P60's, payslips and proof of any assets too before approving a loan.
We are seeing it with most mortgage lenders too, some asking for minimum 20% deposit to reduce their risk.
Not saying he wont get it, but he might have to produce more proof of income and affordability (more and more lenders look to affordability and not just raw monthly income) than he might have had to not so long ago.
The large deposit really helps and I would assume if they wanted a bit more deposit to approve it he could manage that - so I would think he should be fine.
If he has access to one I would suggest a really good IFA - one that knows all the borrowers and can advise which are the better ones to approach as he knows the type of lenders they are and knows which are more likely to approve something like this which is a little bit different to the norm.
In the last 6-8 months lenders seem to have got a lot lot tighter on borrowers in terms of borrowing money, whatever the reason (mortgage / loans etc)
When I bought my 996TT back a few years I borrowed over £60k and all the credit company wanted was a utility bill, nothing else. That same company is now asking for P60's, payslips and proof of any assets too before approving a loan.
We are seeing it with most mortgage lenders too, some asking for minimum 20% deposit to reduce their risk.
Not saying he wont get it, but he might have to produce more proof of income and affordability (more and more lenders look to affordability and not just raw monthly income) than he might have had to not so long ago.
The large deposit really helps and I would assume if they wanted a bit more deposit to approve it he could manage that - so I would think he should be fine.
If he has access to one I would suggest a really good IFA - one that knows all the borrowers and can advise which are the better ones to approach as he knows the type of lenders they are and knows which are more likely to approve something like this which is a little bit different to the norm.
Charlie360 said:
Spread betting is not taxed in the UK, as the majority of people effectively end up loosing money - and dear old Gordon wouldn't want people offsetting these loses against gains elsewhere so I think he's happy to let the few that do make money at it get away with no tax!
A friend of mine who was heavily into day trading and he switched to spread betting because of the tax benefits. His accountant told him that if the revenue deemed gambling to be his main source of income, they would tax it as such. Good to hear that the OP's brother has something in writing saying they're not interested in taxing his winnings 
It's not a good time to be borrowing! They're jumpy to say the least!
That said... It can be done! Does he have a good credit history? If he has cards which he maintains well he may be ok?
They will be very dubious of the 'reliabililty' of income - esp in the current climate. I would expect to provide at least 3 months worth of bank statements.
Try Rob Johnson at Classic and Sports Cars Finance. He has a very good reputation for working miracles
That said... It can be done! Does he have a good credit history? If he has cards which he maintains well he may be ok?
They will be very dubious of the 'reliabililty' of income - esp in the current climate. I would expect to provide at least 3 months worth of bank statements.
Try Rob Johnson at Classic and Sports Cars Finance. He has a very good reputation for working miracles
hes got no chance, hes unemployed, simply as that.
saying you have regular winnings in gambling will make it worse not better.
Tell him to get a job for a month or 2, then you will be fine provided no bad credit history.
And the guy that works for a rental company, are you asking for earnings info if a persons wants to rent for a day or a week, or for long term rental???
saying you have regular winnings in gambling will make it worse not better.
Tell him to get a job for a month or 2, then you will be fine provided no bad credit history.
And the guy that works for a rental company, are you asking for earnings info if a persons wants to rent for a day or a week, or for long term rental???
holtender_01 said:
GreigM said:
sjn2004 said:
If he's paying all this money into UK bank accounts, won't the Inland Revenue catch up at some point?
yup, they certainly will - and driving a 360 around when you're technically unemployed is the quick way to tax issuesThey said as gambling and spread betting are not taxable under UK law they were not interested unless the law changed, but that is very unlikely.
He make sure he got this in writing, and has a letter from the revenue saying that his income is not in anyway taxable and will not be in the foreseeable future.
Actually, given the state of the financial markets I kind of assume a few of us are subject to regular coin tosses behind the scenes anyway
It can be done...........fianance company we used on behalf of a client wanted to see 2 years profit/loss statements from the guys Betfair account. His income was 100% from this source. The chap had won £440K in the previous 24 months, and he borrowed £140K, putting in a deposit of £50K.
Intrestingly he doesnt have to pay tax on his income despite it been a full time accupation!
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