Discussion
Well the person who gets this one right could be minted!
Currently;
308's falling slowly
328's holding well
348's falling rapidly (well below 328's)
355's falling slowly but this year so far about £3 - £4K
360's are all over place.
Problem partly being volume, take a look at the numbers for sale, THis year has seen Dino's (246's) go through the roof!
Yes 360's will drop, 355's will be a good investment in my view as the last of the true wedges which is also a fully sorted car,
just like 328's are the last of the affordable to maintain Ferrari's.
I personally think that a really good 355 will be worth more in the future than a good 360, but four things will decide that, 1)desirability 2) value 3) running costs as they get older 4) Oil / petrol and associated taxes.
I cannot see that the Gov/ment will allow a 360 into a low road tax bracket for being twenty years old (328's are £185 pa)
Anyhow, as some wise chap said, 'given three choices they'll probably choose the fourth!'
Know one knows we can only guess.
Currently;
308's falling slowly
328's holding well
348's falling rapidly (well below 328's)
355's falling slowly but this year so far about £3 - £4K
360's are all over place.
Problem partly being volume, take a look at the numbers for sale, THis year has seen Dino's (246's) go through the roof!
Yes 360's will drop, 355's will be a good investment in my view as the last of the true wedges which is also a fully sorted car,
just like 328's are the last of the affordable to maintain Ferrari's.
I personally think that a really good 355 will be worth more in the future than a good 360, but four things will decide that, 1)desirability 2) value 3) running costs as they get older 4) Oil / petrol and associated taxes.
I cannot see that the Gov/ment will allow a 360 into a low road tax bracket for being twenty years old (328's are £185 pa)
Anyhow, as some wise chap said, 'given three choices they'll probably choose the fourth!'
Know one knows we can only guess.
Walkersport - so 308s falling and 328s holding? I'd say a general settling of prices on both cars, no doubt influenced by the drift down in 355 prices....Those that can't afford a 246 would probably be more drawn to the 308 with its toggle switches, stalks and handbrake layout, plus the more purer body shape. My money would (and may well) go into a very clean early 308 - fibreglass perhaps...
Surely the 348 is looking good value at the moment, again prices pushed down by the fall of the 355. Personally, I'd much rather have a 355 though....
Surely the 348 is looking good value at the moment, again prices pushed down by the fall of the 355. Personally, I'd much rather have a 355 though....
I agree with the previous poster (elsewhere) who said that the manual cars will be the sought after ones in 10-20 years time. the early 355/360 F1 boxes will be viewed as pre-development dogs compared to even the current 430 let alone the same technology in 10 years time.
I also think the 348 and 360 will be seen as the pre-release beta versions of the "finished articles" - the 355 and 430 respectively - the 360CS being the exception to this rule. Ultimately I think 355's will hold their value better than the 360 or 430 equivalents - purely because it's the last of the 'proper' sportscar designs.
Finally, I don't understand how the pricing works for colour choice on ferraris but it certainly seems to level out over time and based purely on the volume of non-rosso-corsa 430's for sale i'd say the trend for your typical rosso/crema ferrari is dying along with the manual gate.
Jonny
I also think the 348 and 360 will be seen as the pre-release beta versions of the "finished articles" - the 355 and 430 respectively - the 360CS being the exception to this rule. Ultimately I think 355's will hold their value better than the 360 or 430 equivalents - purely because it's the last of the 'proper' sportscar designs.
Finally, I don't understand how the pricing works for colour choice on ferraris but it certainly seems to level out over time and based purely on the volume of non-rosso-corsa 430's for sale i'd say the trend for your typical rosso/crema ferrari is dying along with the manual gate.
Jonny
Manual gate is only dying because new buyers are stupid enough to fall for the "you will struggle to sell a manual" line. I have come across very few people who insist on having f1 on a second hand car, and I come across quite a few who only want manual. As the cars get older more people go for manual due to the expectation of lower costs and less trouble.
There are far too many 360's for them to hold in value, this year alone there has been a tremendous drop! Dont get me wrong, so far as driving experience is concerned I think the 360 is a far better car to drive. The looks are personal; I prefer the 355 but sayng that I am going to buy a 360 shortly because of the drive.
Short term none of the cars listed are a good investment. Longer term my money would be on a 355, although I have heard a lot of dealers/traders (they did not have a 328/308 to sell) reckon that 308/328's will be the next cars to rise in value.
As for rosso/crema dying out - i would be amazed if that were true - it is still the easiest colour to sell (speaking only of V8's). I have had three red ferrari's and all have sold very easily. Majority of first time buyers will only buy red. I, personally, would only buy red or black and everytime I have gone out to buy a black one I have come back with a red one. Models are colour sensitive. V8's are preferable in red (a silver 360 is almost unsellable). V12's tend to be more popular in dark blues, dark greys and black (strangely red is not popular).
There are far too many 360's for them to hold in value, this year alone there has been a tremendous drop! Dont get me wrong, so far as driving experience is concerned I think the 360 is a far better car to drive. The looks are personal; I prefer the 355 but sayng that I am going to buy a 360 shortly because of the drive.
Short term none of the cars listed are a good investment. Longer term my money would be on a 355, although I have heard a lot of dealers/traders (they did not have a 328/308 to sell) reckon that 308/328's will be the next cars to rise in value.
As for rosso/crema dying out - i would be amazed if that were true - it is still the easiest colour to sell (speaking only of V8's). I have had three red ferrari's and all have sold very easily. Majority of first time buyers will only buy red. I, personally, would only buy red or black and everytime I have gone out to buy a black one I have come back with a red one. Models are colour sensitive. V8's are preferable in red (a silver 360 is almost unsellable). V12's tend to be more popular in dark blues, dark greys and black (strangely red is not popular).
I agree with all comments posted, I preferer the chances manual models for the long run. yes the 360 will probably end up being lowered valued than 355's in the similar way to 348 to 355, however the 360 does not seem to have the built in weak points like a 348.
Personally I advise customers against 348's, I love driving them for sure, they needed more power, but the gearbox bearing failure, cat sensor faults, oil leaks and expensive clutches can make it a very expensive experience which you will not get back in your pocket only in driving pleasure. I 348 is not the wise money move.
328's have a different attract a different dynamic of customer, the 308 market is struggling because it is the safe way into Ferrari ownership, and is the prefered model for first time buyers especially as most cars are sub £20k, these are the people whom are struggling with finances at the moment (I am speaking in very general terms here!!) the 328 cusotmer base is usually 45 - 55 years old, no more dependants, and have always wanted one, they usually have the money and are not affected in the same way by financial markets. I do not see these models rising much, but they are the safest Ferrari over the past 10 years.
355's have dropped, but only the higher milage cars will long term be affected again, problem with these cars becomming more user friendly so 80k miles pops up quickly! then you will see a huge drop usually from 65k miles onwards they become difficult to sell.
I get the feeling I should get out more......I am waffling!
Personally I advise customers against 348's, I love driving them for sure, they needed more power, but the gearbox bearing failure, cat sensor faults, oil leaks and expensive clutches can make it a very expensive experience which you will not get back in your pocket only in driving pleasure. I 348 is not the wise money move.
328's have a different attract a different dynamic of customer, the 308 market is struggling because it is the safe way into Ferrari ownership, and is the prefered model for first time buyers especially as most cars are sub £20k, these are the people whom are struggling with finances at the moment (I am speaking in very general terms here!!) the 328 cusotmer base is usually 45 - 55 years old, no more dependants, and have always wanted one, they usually have the money and are not affected in the same way by financial markets. I do not see these models rising much, but they are the safest Ferrari over the past 10 years.
355's have dropped, but only the higher milage cars will long term be affected again, problem with these cars becomming more user friendly so 80k miles pops up quickly! then you will see a huge drop usually from 65k miles onwards they become difficult to sell.
I get the feeling I should get out more......I am waffling!
355's a classic already. Good ones will be very sought after. Particularly manual Berlinettas with full history and very tidy.
I'd say the 308 will probably do better than the 328. Again, my punt would be on GTBs, but condition will be key.
360CS will always be firm and sought after IMO. They'll drop, but slowly. And I would imagine they'll never plunge genuine depths. Can't see these ever changing hands below 65-70k tbh, as long as they're looked after.
Not convinced any of the new cars will be so robust. They'll make too many of them.
I'd say the 308 will probably do better than the 328. Again, my punt would be on GTBs, but condition will be key.
360CS will always be firm and sought after IMO. They'll drop, but slowly. And I would imagine they'll never plunge genuine depths. Can't see these ever changing hands below 65-70k tbh, as long as they're looked after.
Not convinced any of the new cars will be so robust. They'll make too many of them.
The 360 is a great car (I am biased!). It has modern Ferrari design language, is beautifully built and can be used daily-further, it will not rust, has modern electronic aids. The 355 is a fab car but seems appealing to the classic car set, the 360 is great for non-anoraks who want a sensible ownership proposition. The 360 is proving to be reliable with only small problems with wishbone bushes and clutch bearings (both of which are easily cured). This should all help to mainintain their value. The only issue is that there are a few around..so if you want one you can be quite fussy about colour and spec. Hence the slightly less desirable ones are cheap.
walkersport said:
Personally I advise customers against 348's, I love driving them for sure, they needed more power, but the gearbox bearing failure, cat sensor faults, oil leaks and expensive clutches can make it a very expensive experience which you will not get back in your pocket only in driving pleasure. I 348 is not the wise money move.
As a Ferrari specialist you really should know to be careful about making such sweeping statements Tim on such fickle and subjective issues as model preferences 
I have only owned 348s ... my current superb 348 Berlinetta and one absolutely mint Spider. It had done 2000 miles in the previous year I bought it and I promptly put a further 3,000 miles on it ... within three weeks of owning it hammering around the Alps, and I mean some really enthusiastic driving. I went on to do a further 10,000 miles in the first year.
The decat Tubi took it to about 335-340 bhp which was plenty power enough and hardly any difference behind a 355 in real road driving.
The clutch, ahh yes, mine did need replacing as part of the general running costs. £700 fitted. I might be wrong but I didn't think that was too bad.
As to the Cat sensors, gearbox and oil leaks, I have never heard of any well known weakness in the gearboxes, but then I am not a specialist, just a reasonably genned up owner/enthusiast. An oil leak may be down to the crank seal which can usually be avoided by having it replaced when you do the cam belt service, but again, I have never heard of oil leaks being a 348 weak point. And the Cat sensors are usually down to those silly owners whipping the cats out and putting a Tubi on
Easily remedied by simply disconnecting them!Like I said, I will bow to your deeper knowledge of Ferraris Tim, but have never really come across the issues. Indeed, on most Ferrari forums the 348 is regarded as a fairly robust car with no known mechanical issues.
I like the fact that you have a nice 348 as your profile pic though
Back to the original poster's question:
The 360s will steadily decrease in value due to the sheer numbers produced. I would not be surprised if 360s appeared in the £30ks within two or three years let alone five.
308 and 328s are both slowly starting to rise judging by the solds in the classifieds as people start to appreciate the pure sweeping lines that seem to be long gone in the cars of today.
348s are now starting to pick up as people realise that they are a lot of car for the money. Currently, scruffy ones can be had for low 20s but good ones are becoming harder to find so the prices are starting to get stronger.
The 355 seems to be staying fairly stable as to many they represent the iconic road Ferrari and are now at first time buyer values.
Edited by burriana on Monday 16th June 14:59
All forgiven! we are drifting off the thread here, but my posts are my personal view of what i know, I know - like you do, 348's are great fun, please feel free to contact me direct if you wish to discuss gearboxes, however point taken, I will be more carefull of some of my opinions in future (relatively new to forums!)especially as I represent my business.
Edited by walkersport on Monday 16th June 16:00
walkersport said:
All forgiven! we are drifting off the thread here, but my posts are my personal view of what i know, I know - like you do, 348's are great fun, please feel free to contact me direct if you wish to discuss gearboxes, however point taken, I will be more carefull of some of my opinions in future (relatively new to forums!)especially as I represent my business.
Course, they will be the best thing since sliced bread and 'highly underrated' when you have one to sellEdited by walkersport on Monday 16th June 16:00
The 550s are now dropping into the 30s for what appear to be reasonable looking examples ... a lot of car for the money and a definite prospect to replace the 348 in a couple of years or so.
My predicament is ... bearing in mind I hankered after a 512 Testarossa and have slowly changed tack towards the 550 as a superb GT and one which Vicki would like (as opposed to the in your face TR) ... do I go for the sublime 550 that will let's face it, depreciate as all modern non-limited edition Ferraris will or, go for the less practical and far more in your face TR, that I happen to believe will show a substantial increase in value over the next 5 years.
Not a decision for a couple of years but I can't help thinking about the rise in value of other iconic Ferraris over the last four years such as the 512BB and the Dino.
A childhood hankering that will increase in value or a current lust that will give probably more enjoyment but lose money every month ... cars, don't you just love 'em!
(not looking any answers chaps, just idle thoughts that ocurred to me as I was looking at some lovely examples at St Saturnin last Friday)
My predicament is ... bearing in mind I hankered after a 512 Testarossa and have slowly changed tack towards the 550 as a superb GT and one which Vicki would like (as opposed to the in your face TR) ... do I go for the sublime 550 that will let's face it, depreciate as all modern non-limited edition Ferraris will or, go for the less practical and far more in your face TR, that I happen to believe will show a substantial increase in value over the next 5 years.
Not a decision for a couple of years but I can't help thinking about the rise in value of other iconic Ferraris over the last four years such as the 512BB and the Dino.
A childhood hankering that will increase in value or a current lust that will give probably more enjoyment but lose money every month ... cars, don't you just love 'em!
(not looking any answers chaps, just idle thoughts that ocurred to me as I was looking at some lovely examples at St Saturnin last Friday)
walkersport said:
but the gearbox bearing failure, cat sensor faults, oil leaks and expensive clutches can make it a very expensive experience which you will not get back in your pocket only in driving pleasure. I 348 is not the wise money move.
348 gearbox... yes...probably the weakest part of the car. I know a couple that have had to have some work done on them. Cat sensor faults... have'nt heard of many 348's with that problem.
Oil leaks.....lots of Ferrari's have them now and again due to age. Just need the seals replaced.
Expensive clutches.....easy to change as it's at the rear of the car and cheaper than a 360.
walkersport said:
Personally I advise customers against 348's,
First specialist I've ever heard say that. Edited by Angelis on Tuesday 17th June 09:13
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