What do you think of this 360M for sale....

[SpunkyM]

..in the market for one at the mo and personally love the grey. Saw this on Pistonheads and thought it might be worth a viewing. Does anybody recognise this car and what sort of things should I be looking out for / what questions should I should be asking?

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/601864.htm

I know about the major service every 12.5K (including belts) but that's about it!

[Bebs]

Looks nice if you like that colour combo. Good price I think. You may be able to bargain a bit due to spec (colour).
Belst are not every 12.5K miles. Every 3 years or 30,000 miles and its £400 at Verdi for belts on a 360.
Allow around £3000 a year to run it excluding insurance.
Go for it

[s99ane]

sure that car has been on the market for a while now. Had been thinking about it myself.

[GreigM]

unusual colour combination is hammering its value, but if you like it then it is a bargain at that price

[SpunkyM]

Thanks for the clarification on the belts - it was Parkers that said 12,500miles....

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/ferrari/360-...

Does anybody have a link to the service intervals and what's involved with each?


I think the colour is great but am thinking it could be difficult to sell on as no-one seems to buy the greys on a 360 for some reason.

Any specific questions I should be asking the dealer when I spek to him tomorrow. I heard a rumour about dodgy cambelt tensioners on the early models?

Edited by SpunkyM on Wednesday 9th July 17:54

[haybaby212]

hasnt been serviced for 2 years and has been for sale for 8 months think the lack of servicing has put a lot of people of inculding myself!

[Paracetamol]

haybaby212 said:

hasnt been serviced for 2 years and has been for sale for 8 months think the lack of servicing has put a lot of people of inculding myself!

Thats great value...get it thoroughly checked over and then very thoroughly serviced...if its mint then that is a great buy- a red one would be £10k more...and its never going to go below £35k..

[USS Bozeman]

SpunkyM said:

Thanks for the clarification on the belts - it was Parkers that said 12,500miles....

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/ferrari/360-...

Does anybody have a link to the service intervals and what's involved with each?


I think the colour is great but am thinking it could be difficult to sell on as no-one seems to buy the greys on a 360 for some reason.

Any specific questions I should be asking the dealer when I spek to him tomorrow. I heard a rumour about dodgy cambelt tensioners on the early models?

Edited by SpunkyM on Wednesday 9th July 17:54

A friend of mine just had his tensioners go on his 360 causing major engine damage - luckily he had a warranty or he would have been looking at a bill not much under £10k. It was at Ferrari being fixed for about 7 weeks.

[Paracetamol]

USS Bozeman said:

SpunkyM said:

Thanks for the clarification on the belts - it was Parkers that said 12,500miles....

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/ferrari/360-...

Does anybody have a link to the service intervals and what's involved with each?


I think the colour is great but am thinking it could be difficult to sell on as no-one seems to buy the greys on a 360 for some reason.

Any specific questions I should be asking the dealer when I spek to him tomorrow. I heard a rumour about dodgy cambelt tensioners on the early models?

Edited by SpunkyM on Wednesday 9th July 17:54

A friend of mine just had his tensioners go on his 360 causing major engine damage - luckily he had a warranty or he would have been looking at a bill not much under £10k. It was at Ferrari being fixed for about 7 weeks.

Moral of the story- use new tensioners when the belts are changed- no different in any modern car really....

[NIIKME]

Bebs said:

Looks nice if you like that colour combo. Good price I think. You may be able to bargain a bit due to spec (colour).
Belst are not every 12.5K miles. Every 3 years or 30,000 miles and its £400 at Verdi for belts on a 360.
Allow around £3000 a year to run it excluding insurance.
Go for it

bebs can you break down that £3k a year maintenance pls? if its not belts what contributes mainly?

[Bebs]

NIIKME said:

Bebs said:

Looks nice if you like that colour combo. Good price I think. You may be able to bargain a bit due to spec (colour).
Belst are not every 12.5K miles. Every 3 years or 30,000 miles and its £400 at Verdi for belts on a 360.
Allow around £3000 a year to run it excluding insurance.
Go for it

bebs can you break down that £3k a year maintenance pls? if its not belts what contributes mainly?

Rear tyres, front bushes every other year if driven. Clutch at £2000 every 2 or 3 years. annual service at £750 at Indi, belts every 3 years, and allow for the odd thing like any other car be it mechanical or electric.

[Paracetamol]

Bebs said:

NIIKME said:

Bebs said:

Looks nice if you like that colour combo. Good price I think. You may be able to bargain a bit due to spec (colour).
Belst are not every 12.5K miles. Every 3 years or 30,000 miles and its £400 at Verdi for belts on a 360.
Allow around £3000 a year to run it excluding insurance.
Go for it

bebs can you break down that £3k a year maintenance pls? if its not belts what contributes mainly?

Rear tyres, front bushes every other year if driven. Clutch at £2000 every 2 or 3 years. annual service at £750 at Indi, belts every 3 years, and allow for the odd thing like any other car be it mechanical or electric.

clutches are £1100/ Get Hills engineering ball joints and tensioners and you should be laughing

[RVIANT]

Paracetamol said:

Bebs said:

NIIKME said:

Bebs said:

Looks nice if you like that colour combo. Good price I think. You may be able to bargain a bit due to spec (colour).
Belst are not every 12.5K miles. Every 3 years or 30,000 miles and its £400 at Verdi for belts on a 360.
Allow around £3000 a year to run it excluding insurance.
Go for it

bebs can you break down that £3k a year maintenance pls? if its not belts what contributes mainly?

Rear tyres, front bushes every other year if driven. Clutch at £2000 every 2 or 3 years. annual service at £750 at Indi, belts every 3 years, and allow for the odd thing like any other car be it mechanical or electric.

clutches are £1100/ Get Hills engineering ball joints and tensioners and you should be laughing

tell us more about this

[Paracetamol]

RVIANT said:

Paracetamol said:

Bebs said:

NIIKME said:

Bebs said:

Looks nice if you like that colour combo. Good price I think. You may be able to bargain a bit due to spec (colour).
Belst are not every 12.5K miles. Every 3 years or 30,000 miles and its £400 at Verdi for belts on a 360.
Allow around £3000 a year to run it excluding insurance.
Go for it

bebs can you break down that £3k a year maintenance pls? if its not belts what contributes mainly?

Rear tyres, front bushes every other year if driven. Clutch at £2000 every 2 or 3 years. annual service at £750 at Indi, belts every 3 years, and allow for the odd thing like any other car be it mechanical or electric.

clutches are £1100/ Get Hills engineering ball joints and tensioners and you should be laughing

tell us more about this

I would PM GreigM (see above)- he bought my old 360 and is in the process of having these parts fitted. Hills engineering design proper fixes to inherent weaknesses in Ferrari's mechanical designs by analysing the problem and engineering a solution..(god I sound like a consultant

[GreigM]

Basically there are a couple of known weaknesses in the 360 - the ball joints were taken from the challenge cars and aren't durable enough for road cars and wear out easily - Hill Engineering sell a replacement part which should cure the problem for the semi-long term (they'll still wear, but at normal car rates). There are 8 ball joints in the car so it can be an ongoing problem for 360s unless you are putting in the HE parts - I've bought some in preparation, fortunately I just had my car checked over and all ball-joints are currently sound.

The other main weakness is in the clutch - it has an all-in-one thrust (throw-out) bearing and slave cylinder (funnily enough the same design as used in the ford focus, and it has the same issues) which is poorly designed and eventually the pressure on the seals causes the seal to fail and let hydraulic fluid pass - Hill Engineering do a redesigned part which is said to solve this issue - its around £400. I recently had a clutch issue so put in the HE bearing and a brand new clutch (although the clutch which was in it only had 50% wear, it didn't seem sensible to put the same one back in). Since the work was done (which also involved proper adjustment of gearbox cables) my car feels like it is brand new (p.s. wanna buy it )

As for costs - the full clutch kit is £1200, the HE trust bearing abut £400 and its 10 hours labour for the job, so to be done properly you are looking around £2500+ all-in. Many people are making 2 mistakes when getting 360 clutches - not putting in the uprated thrust bearing (note, a main ferrari dealer won't install this so you end up paying premium rates to play russian roulette with poorly designed parts) and you can also buy the clutch friction plates on their own, but IMO this is a mistake as the forks on the pressure plate weaken over time and again you are taking a risk with 10 hours of labour to do it all again.

So when buying a 360 don't just jump into the cheapest car you can find - there are many poorly looked after cars out there and buyers are seeing these low priced dogs as the current market rates - I drove many before I bought mine. The clutch and gearchange should be light, smooth and a pleasure - any real difficulty to engage gear or if the clutch pedal feels uneven in any way then it could be signs of clutch issues or gearbox linkage needing attention.

[Bebs]

Interesting Greig. I just had all 8 ball joints replaced in mine.
The slave clutch cylinder you are referring to - is it in front of the bulkhead, left hand side of the car? If so, I just had that replaced as my clutch pedal kept dropping half way down i.e. very little travel on it. Apparently the cylinder had leaked and a new one was installed which cured the problem.
However, on a recent european trip when pushing along at speeds over 120 mph for any distance.. as soon as I backed off, braked and wanted to drop a gear - the clutch pedal had dropped to the floor again! Any thoughts on this? Have to say, I've been on the same clutch for the past 45,000 miles now!

[GreigM]

Bebs said:

Interesting Greig. I just had all 8 ball joints replaced in mine.
The slave clutch cylinder you are referring to - is it in front of the bulkhead, left hand side of the car? If so, I just had that replaced as my clutch pedal kept dropping half way down i.e. very little travel on it. Apparently the cylinder had leaked and a new one was installed which cured the problem.
However, on a recent european trip when pushing along at speeds over 120 mph for any distance.. as soon as I backed off, braked and wanted to drop a gear - the clutch pedal had dropped to the floor again! Any thoughts on this? Have to say, I've been on the same clutch for the past 45,000 miles now!

Thats the master cylinder they've replaced - the slave is right in amongst the clutch gubbins (i.e. gearbox out) and your problem sounds exactly like what I had - the effect is worse when the fluid is hot, but generally I got it changing down, braking coming off the motorway - pedal to floor, cant change gear.....by changing the master they would have bled-down the system which would have made it feel better for some time (I tried this previously also, thinking it might be a leaky master), but it came back and got progressively more frequent. As for your clutch on 45k - yes I believe a lot of people are getting a lot of clutch work done when the clutch itself isn't worn - and a lot of techs are misdiagnosing the clutch itself, master cylinder, pressure forks etc...and even when they diagnose correctly they are replacing it with genuine parts - which ferrari have revised a couple of times to try and cure the problem, but the HE parts get great feedback on fchat.

There's a good thread here which shows you what is involved...
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=...

It has good pictures of what happens if you don't have the 6-bolt ring-gear and if the pressure forks fail......as I've said before, too many buyers looking for that 50k 360, not realising that the extra few grand they spend on a good one will easily be saved in the long run...buy on history, condition and the feeling that the seller knows a bit about the cars - not price and mileage.

[Bebs]

Greig, it does sound like the same problem coming off the loud pedal wanting to change down but finding clutch pedal on the floor.
So you'd suggest a new HE throw-out Bearing + new clutch would take care of this issue once and for all?

Cheers

[GreigM]

Bebs said:

Greig, it does sound like the same problem coming off the loud pedal wanting to change down but finding clutch pedal on the floor.
So you'd suggest a new HE throw-out Bearing + new clutch would take care of this issue once and for all?

Cheers

Thats the theory anyway - and at 45k if you're dropping the gearbox you're probably as well doing the clutch when you're in there - I'd also verify you've got the 6-bolt ring-gear.

[Paracetamol]

Bebs said:

Greig, it does sound like the same problem coming off the loud pedal wanting to change down but finding clutch pedal on the floor.
So you'd suggest a new HE throw-out Bearing + new clutch would take care of this issue once and for all?

Cheers

Or may be not as I had all this done on the car at 20k miles (save not a new clutch as when the garage opened up the gearbox, it was found to be almost unworn)