Countach prices quoted in Classic and Sports Car

[ianqv]

OK - Soap box time!

I'm referring to the article in this months classic and sports car (page 136 to be precise)

Lots of pro's and con's - most of which I agree with (you don't buy a Countach to be practical!!!).

But…… what has got me spitting venom is that the magazine has HUGELY de-valued our cars!!
They reckon (and I quote) "Privately you can find good cars (Countach) for £35 < £40k" - and on the front cover in block caps it's states "TWO ICONS NOW FROM JUST 30k"
Thanks Classic Sports car for just getting the value of my car and then dividing it by two!!! - especially when the super market is in rather uncertain times!

The only saving grace was a comment from our very own DP on the bottom left of page 136 - who has a more realistic understanding as to the true value of Lambo's.

Can I suggest that every Countach owner writes a two liner email to
[e-mail] at Classic and Sports car - and set the record straight on what our cars are worth.

By the way, PistonHeads and Classic and sports car are all part of the same group - so please.... any mods reading this, have a word!

Rant over!!!

[Craig]

ianqv said:

OK - Soap box time!

I'm referring to the article in this months classic and sports car (page 136 to be precise)

Lots of pro's and con's - most of which I agree with (you don't buy a Countach to be practical!!!).

But…… what has got me spitting venom is that the magazine has HUGELY de-valued our cars!!
They reckon (and I quote) "Privately you can find good cars (Countach) for £35 < £40k" - and on the front cover in block caps it's states "TWO ICONS NOW FROM JUST 30k"
Thanks Classic Sports car for just getting the value of my car and then dividing it by two!!! - especially when the super market is in rather uncertain times!

The only saving grace was a comment from our very own DP on the bottom left of page 136 - who has a more realistic understanding as to the true value of Lambo's.

Can I suggest that every Countach owner writes a two liner email to
[e-mail] at Classic and Sports car - and set the record straight on what our cars are worth.

By the way, PistonHeads and Classic and sports car are all part of the same group - so please.... any mods reading this, have a word!

Rant over!!!

Ian

In my experience most Classic car magazine valuations have been way off the mark on these cars. The article on my LP400 a couple of years back undervalued it massively too. Did it bother me? No.

The market value of the car is what someone is prepared to pay for it and given the scarcity of good Countach's (like yours) the prices will be hard to judge anyway.

If you look at Countach's for sale in Europe most QV's are over £100k so this would be closer to a realistic price.

Craig

[Soovy]

To add a sliver of devil's avocado here, when you can buy a nearly new Aston Vatage for mid 30s and Gallardos for £40s, you need to reassess things.

The a5re has fallen out of the car market. Totally.

Edited by Soovy on Thursday 6th November 10:45

[XXVIII]

Soovy said:

The a5re has fallen out of the car market. Totally.

but not, I'd say, the market for classic cars...

Witness the very recent sale of an Espada for a huge amount of money above 'as quoted in the press' values or the almost as recent sale of an Anniversary Countach in the UK that sold for above the asking price despite being at best a bit ropey, or indeed the latest sales in Europe where values are being maintained or else vehicles are being withdrawn from sales as there are some idiot people who think that the Emergency!! Panic! Panic! Panic! Sale bargains! Bargains! Bargains!!!! mentality in the new(er) car market applies in the classic arena.

Whilst there are undoubtedly desperate panic sales of cars like certain new Astons or F430s or Gallardos (down to £40k?... shirley not yet!) by the already financially over-stretched, there are those who think that this mentality must also be prevalent elsewhere and that the older car they thought they could never have will soon be theirs because of articles like this one in C&SC.

This kind of hysteria is not, in any meaningful way, applicable to cars like the Countach. The market for older Lamborghinis is very tiny, the deals made are almost at a 'keep-dark' level, the actual private values are never much discussed, let alone quibbled about - it's a different world, not much affected by any panicky post-sub-prime distress!

At this point, I would like to say publicly that whilst the article quotes me, those words as printed are not in any way in support of the general jist of the article - not even in relation to the Testarossa, let alone the Countach! I was asked some time ago for my opinion and indeed the article was 'in process' when I spoke to the magazine but quite a long way from being 'in print'.

[evil_dr_fish]

+1 on what he said! lol


What a load of cobblers - said magazines always used to do the same with the Esprit - ok I accept the values are a fraction but still, to an owner to be told your car is worth thousands less than what you KNOW it is worht is still really f*ing annoying!

The Early Giugiaros have enjoyed the same *appreciation* (yes I said it!!) as the Countach as there is no other choice - If you want a proper wedge car that isn't a total pos and still has some cache, you get a Countach, Testa or Esprit. (depending on which poster you had or which film / TV show you saw first! lol )

Typical, sh|tty, lazy @rsed, slack journalism!


...don't get me started on the sh|t rags! Mutter. Grumble... LOL

[Calculator]

Soovy said:

To add a sliver of devil's avocado here, when you can buy a nearly new Aston Vatage for mid 30s and Gallardos for £40s, you need to reassess things.

The a5re has fallen out of the car market. Totally.

Edited by Soovy on Thursday 6th November 10:45

Where are these Gallardos in the £40s and mid £30k nearly new Vantages??!

I will take one of each.

[Redwing]

How hard can it be four a journo to get things like this right.......presumably if they were truely interested in what they were driving they would know they were worth more than £35k! I haven't seen the article yet but I will remidy that later. So who's car did they use and does it have a wing on it?

[orangeLP400]

strangly enough i drove a friends Testarossa recently and it really is a nice car....a very "nice" car and i was impressed at how nice it was....it was a nice red colour and the interior was nice, and it went nicely and once you get over some '80s excess predudice, its a nice shape....but as the article does say in a way, it does not make each time u drive it special...the Countach is just more extream and more focused and that is why, in my opinion, it makes every time you take it out an occasion of note....as an every day car or on a long trip i would choose the T anytime but that does not mean i dream of having one in my garage....and that is the point....all writers are intitled to their opinion and i thought it was a fair rightup....as for the price issue....well Tesstarossas are about half the price of Countachs and i feel that is about right....where they get their price guides from i do not know but i think prices where manipulated to get a good story and a good cover headline....it is true that the prices of specialist cars are dropping alarmingly and this is particularly so for more modern stuff ....i think all cars will drop but i would think it is also a good time to invest in rolling art as the icons of yesteryear are more likly to maintain their value....if i had a vast store of ready money i would not, as a sensible person ( open to question mind) want it in the bank( very shaky in my opinion), or in shares( really really risky) and as property still has a way to fall i would be looking for inherient value in art and collectables....the art market is completly mad and the only thing i collect and know about is cars ...so like, i am sure, a number of folk, i would buy good quality potential motoring icons ( and i am not telling you what, as i would like to keep it to myself but one would be, as a clue, a snake terroriser!) as i doubt they will lose too much value and when u cant sleep at night you can always pour a whisky and go down into the garage and admire them which is good for the soul( and better than reading the stock market report)...in this regard i would prefer a Countach over a Tesstarossa as the car is more iconic and a Diablo over a Murci or Gayardo or F360....the point is to find the car on the cusp of iconic status and all countachs seem to be undervalued compared to what else is on offer so i feel are likely to maintain their value or drop less than less significant cars ...also Lambos have rarity on their side so far less come onto the market at any one time which means the prices may be more stable.....but i agree with Craig and also think the joy of owning a Countach far outways what some jounalist says...and there is no need to be too sensitive to these things, magazine writers are not Gods and do not set prices....in fact there is some added pleasure in buying and loving a car that is universally slated or that has gone out of fashion...like alfa GTVs for instance......S

[rubystone]

It's odd that C & S go so low on the prices, yet Classic Cars get it about right - viz. the article on the Daytona & Miura the other month. Incidentally look out for that Daytona on Top Gear on December 7th, racing a boat between Portofino and Cannes with Hamster at the wheel (of the car)...

The recent Coys auction supports what others have said in this thread - strong prices for Daytona and GTC-4. general consensus is if the car has good provenance it'll fetch the money, if it's not, it won't. Example being the Carrera RS that sold at £80k at Bonhams (IIRC) - matching numbers but not original panels (but how many of these cars still wear original panels - most were restored at the hight of the last boom in the late '80s)

[JHC]

Ian,
I would not worry at all from the magazine in question. They have not idea whatsoever about Lambo prices as I have sold in the last 10 years 7 Lambos and have always received far more than the strange prices they dream up. People who want a Countach will know where the prices usually are. Hope you are ok. See you soon at a show. John C

PS I am at the very late stages of purchasing either a Diablo GT or GTR and I wish the said magazine was selling either of them.!! I would be a very happy man.

[XXVIII]

rubystone said:

It's odd that C & S go so low on the prices, yet Classic Cars get it about right

erm... in the CC issue earlier this year which cover-featured Mr orangeLP400's orange LP 400, they quoted a price for a car like his as being £45,000...

Which is some £100,000+ shy of the actual 'market' at least...

CC are also on average £50,000 shy of the Miura 'market' as well...

It's not just any one magazine - they all do it to a greater or much-greater extent.

Essentially, for any good Lamborghini of any age over 6 or 7 years, the market is within the grip of a limited number of individuals both in the UK and elsewhere.

Please note the 'quotes' around words like 'market' here - there can only be an open market when goods are known to be for sale openly.

To my knowledge there are at least 2 Miuras that have been bought and sold both in and out of the UK this year, trading at way above the listed prices in any UK magazine.

[sing-song patronising voice mode ON]

Can anybody here find the adverts or the places where those sales were ever known about?

[sing-song patronising voice mode OFF]

Thought not!

[justin-banks]

Hi All,
I agree with the OP, it is just simply lazy journalism, and annoying, but I would say that any car above the value of a Morris Minor they struggle. This is the interesting thing about being involved in Classic Cars, there is no reliable Glass's Guide and it is very easy to be considerably wide of the mark.

As an owner it is frustrating when they get it wrong and they always undervalue, never the other way round, but any serious buyer of a Countach will simply smile when they read the article as after some cursory research is done the true market value will be established.

I have the same beef with Car Inspections commissioned by clients, I will always listen to a "Sales Prevention Officer" on the state of my track rod ends, but never on the value of the car"

Justin

[Tadek]

Ian.
Don't get to concerned about what these, so called classic car specialists say about valuations. This pricing problem has been going on for some time now and I believe will continue. We should throw a challenge to James Elliott, or any other staff member of C&SC publication to actually find a good Countach for £35 -40K. Any takers????

[jdwcd]

Soovy said:

To add a sliver of devil's avocado here, when you can buy a nearly new Aston Vatage for mid 30s and Gallardos for £40s, you need to reassess things.

The a5re has fallen out of the car market. Totally.

Edited by Soovy on Thursday 6th November 10:45

Dont talk out of your backside, But then you do own a porshce.

[XXVIII]

Tadek said:

Ian.
Don't get to concerned about what these, so called classic car specialists say about valuations. This pricing problem has been going on for some time now and I believe will continue. We should throw a challenge to James Elliott, or any other staff member of C&SC publication to actually find a good Countach for £35 -40K. Any takers????

Strewth! Do you reckon he'd come to LCUK to help him find one!?!?!?!?

Actually, we could nail this sort of thing on the head right there!

I can see the headlines now as magazines spin their p-o-v out to fill column inches:


STOP PRESS!!!

COUNTACH VALUES RISING ALL THE TIME!!!

. . . . . . . . . . .

[barabus]

Boy you Lambo owners do get uptight, i do believe a car is only worth what somebody will pay for it, try P/Xing your Countach and see if they offer you £50k, i was amazed when he told me what he thought they were worth compared to the Testa. I thought it was well written and balanced article and the best car won

[paulqv]

Hi
What a load of bks the guy has written!! I am sure you could find a countach for £35k but it would be a shed! I know how much it costs to put these cars into top mechanical and running order and you wont get much change out of £20k for a thorough overhaul.
When I looked at my fiorst one in Oct 06 both my very senior employee brother in laws ion two major banks advised me to invest my savings in bank shares. Gave me same advice in 07when I bought mine. Well at least it hasnt depreciated 89% since I bought it.
I think countachs anniversary's hit the £40's a few years ago, but that was generaly for rough uncared for cars.

Ian I will write to the journalist and will cc you and David the email. Will be interesting to see his response to my suggestion!

Paul

[diablo_pete]

barabus said:

Boy you Lambo owners do get uptight, i do believe a car is only worth what somebody will pay for it, try P/Xing your Countach and see if they offer you £50k, i was amazed when he told me what he thought they were worth compared to the Testa. I thought it was well written and balanced article and the best car won

It's not about what a dealer will offer for a car that gives it's value. A dealer makes money by selling it for more. Would expect a dealer that offered 50K for a car to ask 70K for it.

I'd certainly give 50K for a nice one.

Don't think these guys are uptight barabus, but it does upset when something that you're proud of get devalued in this way (had this with someone saying I paid less than I needed to to get some of my cars). Certainly true that cars are only worth what someone will pay. But also, a car's price is worth no less than what someone will sell it for. These cars are rare enough that sellers don't need to fight over buyers.

Also, from experience, Pauls comments are true about the money needed to sort out a car that needs some cosmetic and engine work.

Regards
Pete

[rmdferrari]

As you can gather (username), I'm in the Ferrari rather tham Lamborghini camp most of the time.... but I "lust" after a Countach LP500QV in black (not the horrid Aniverary thing).... but ONLY to look at and stroke. Almost all road tests be they when these cars were current or in classic mags slate the truely awful experience of driving a Countach. 1. sweet FA visability 2. uncomfortable seating 3. nasty gearbox 4. evil handling etc etc.. where the only critisism of the Testrossa seems to be the higher than ideal centre of gravity that may upset ultimate balance.?

That you can buy an 80's icon of a Ferrari for £30k plus is amazing, while the Lambo boys seem to be talking £100k+... which seems slightly odd?

[XXVIII]

barabus said:

I thought it was well written and balanced article and the best car won

So, the best car as in better handling or power or best as in better to drive?

Or maybe just the best car in general and best in terms of an all around better experience?

You'd think that a car conceived, designed and built DECADES after the other one would be undeniably so.

You'd think, eh?