Has anyone got my post? LOL
Discussion
You know, This BS name and shame rule realy f
ks me off.
It's not exactly a level playing field is it, People look to PH for advice on various vendors and companys to see if there any good.
The fact that all board members are going to read is various apraisals and people stating nothing but positive comments for the said companys - When in reality there not all there cracked up to be and could have been avoided makes me sick.
PH all you are doing by not naming and shaming is allowing these crooks to carry on opperating and ripping off these innocent people - If this is the case then you should operate a policy not allowing people to appraise companys either.
As for a previous post that I read on here about PH being legally liable for peoples oppinionated views - what complete rubbish that is, after all its peoples opinions, not views agreed with by pistonheads - if there's a legal battle to be had then it would be the member that was personally persued for making false accusations - NOT pistnheads.
6speedonline - a huge USA web forum do not opperate such pathetic nameing and shaming rules, people are free to vent there views without the fear of being binned/banned or having the thread deleted, And im sure that if any legal battles would have been persued im sure as hell it would have happened there.
Grow a pair PH and start protecting your community,
It seems to me that although i dont beleive this is the case in this instance, a number of threads/posts that are deleted due to naming and shaming are directed at board sponsors or companys that advertise here
Now awaits binning or for the post/thread to be deleted..........Ho hum
ks me off.It's not exactly a level playing field is it, People look to PH for advice on various vendors and companys to see if there any good.
The fact that all board members are going to read is various apraisals and people stating nothing but positive comments for the said companys - When in reality there not all there cracked up to be and could have been avoided makes me sick.
PH all you are doing by not naming and shaming is allowing these crooks to carry on opperating and ripping off these innocent people - If this is the case then you should operate a policy not allowing people to appraise companys either.
As for a previous post that I read on here about PH being legally liable for peoples oppinionated views - what complete rubbish that is, after all its peoples opinions, not views agreed with by pistonheads - if there's a legal battle to be had then it would be the member that was personally persued for making false accusations - NOT pistnheads.
6speedonline - a huge USA web forum do not opperate such pathetic nameing and shaming rules, people are free to vent there views without the fear of being binned/banned or having the thread deleted, And im sure that if any legal battles would have been persued im sure as hell it would have happened there.
Grow a pair PH and start protecting your community,
It seems to me that although i dont beleive this is the case in this instance, a number of threads/posts that are deleted due to naming and shaming are directed at board sponsors or companys that advertise here
Now awaits binning or for the post/thread to be deleted..........Ho hum
CarNut101 said:
It seems to have disappeared - thought i followed the rules too and no email from the mods
Ho hum..
Thanks to everyones comments / advice - a really helpful lot on here - wish i could buy you all beers!
Been following your post with interest - absolute shame "they" decided to make it disappear.Ho hum..
Thanks to everyones comments / advice - a really helpful lot on here - wish i could buy you all beers!
Thanks for giving us a detailed insight in to the dealers scandalous actions. I for one wont be giving them a penny of my money in future. The dodgy twunts.
(PH/Big Brother: censorship? very disappointed. In the year I've been a member, I didn't think PH was run like that. Obviously I was wrong.
)Hi All,
I deleted the thread last night.
I completely understand your frustration but we simply don't have the funds to defend potentially ruinous legal action every time someone decides to air their grievances about a company on PH. I can't comment on this individual example but I'm sure you'll appreciate that every time someone makes a complaint there is always an opposing view.
For PH to "back" one party in a dispute would involve us investigating every complaint and satisfying ourselves that we would be 100% confident in our decision in a court of law. That's something which Ted had neither the resource nor the appetite for when he owned PH, and we feel exactly the same. We'd far rather spend the time and money on developing PH.
Incidentally the comments made above about the legal liability in the event of any libellous comments are wholly wrong. It's my job to worry about this sort of thing and you couldn't, I can assure you, be further from the truth!
I'm going to have to prune this thread back I'm afraid, and I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't revisit this particular issue on PistonHeads.
Many thanks,
Stuart
I deleted the thread last night.
I completely understand your frustration but we simply don't have the funds to defend potentially ruinous legal action every time someone decides to air their grievances about a company on PH. I can't comment on this individual example but I'm sure you'll appreciate that every time someone makes a complaint there is always an opposing view.
For PH to "back" one party in a dispute would involve us investigating every complaint and satisfying ourselves that we would be 100% confident in our decision in a court of law. That's something which Ted had neither the resource nor the appetite for when he owned PH, and we feel exactly the same. We'd far rather spend the time and money on developing PH.
Incidentally the comments made above about the legal liability in the event of any libellous comments are wholly wrong. It's my job to worry about this sort of thing and you couldn't, I can assure you, be further from the truth!
I'm going to have to prune this thread back I'm afraid, and I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't revisit this particular issue on PistonHeads.
Many thanks,
Stuart
ineedagallardo said:
You know, This BS name and shame rule realy fks me off.
It's not exactly a level playing field is it, People look to PH for advice on various vendors and companys to see if there any good.
The fact that all board members are going to read is various apraisals and people stating nothing but positive comments for the said companys - When in reality there not all there cracked up to be and could have been avoided makes me sick.
PH all you are doing by not naming and shaming is allowing these crooks to carry on opperating and ripping off these innocent people - If this is the case then you should operate a policy not allowing people to appraise companys either.
As for a previous post that I read on here about PH being legally liable for peoples oppinionated views - what complete rubbish that is, after all its peoples opinions, not views agreed with by pistonheads - if there's a legal battle to be had then it would be the member that was personally persued for making false accusations - NOT pistnheads.
6speedonline - a huge USA web forum do not opperate such pathetic nameing and shaming rules, people are free to vent there views without the fear of being binned/banned or having the thread deleted, And im sure that if any legal battles would have been persued im sure as hell it would have happened there.
Grow a pair PH and start protecting your community,
It seems to me that although i dont beleive this is the case in this instance, a number of threads/posts that are deleted due to naming and shaming are directed at board sponsors or company's that advertise here
Now awaits binning or for the post/thread to be deleted..........Ho hum
I had responded to your response last night. But the commies censors deleted my response ks me off.It's not exactly a level playing field is it, People look to PH for advice on various vendors and companys to see if there any good.
The fact that all board members are going to read is various apraisals and people stating nothing but positive comments for the said companys - When in reality there not all there cracked up to be and could have been avoided makes me sick.
PH all you are doing by not naming and shaming is allowing these crooks to carry on opperating and ripping off these innocent people - If this is the case then you should operate a policy not allowing people to appraise companys either.
As for a previous post that I read on here about PH being legally liable for peoples oppinionated views - what complete rubbish that is, after all its peoples opinions, not views agreed with by pistonheads - if there's a legal battle to be had then it would be the member that was personally persued for making false accusations - NOT pistnheads.
6speedonline - a huge USA web forum do not opperate such pathetic nameing and shaming rules, people are free to vent there views without the fear of being binned/banned or having the thread deleted, And im sure that if any legal battles would have been persued im sure as hell it would have happened there.
Grow a pair PH and start protecting your community,
It seems to me that although i dont beleive this is the case in this instance, a number of threads/posts that are deleted due to naming and shaming are directed at board sponsors or company's that advertise here
Now awaits binning or for the post/thread to be deleted..........Ho hum
In a nut shell i was saying that i agreed with your comments 100%. No matter what long winded response the commie censors give, it is what it is. No balls to name and shame.
here said:
ineedagallardo said:
You know, This BS name and shame rule realy fks me off.
It's not exactly a level playing field is it, People look to PH for advice on various vendors and companys to see if there any good.
The fact that all board members are going to read is various apraisals and people stating nothing but positive comments for the said companys - When in reality there not all there cracked up to be and could have been avoided makes me sick.
PH all you are doing by not naming and shaming is allowing these crooks to carry on opperating and ripping off these innocent people - If this is the case then you should operate a policy not allowing people to appraise companys either.
As for a previous post that I read on here about PH being legally liable for peoples oppinionated views - what complete rubbish that is, after all its peoples opinions, not views agreed with by pistonheads - if there's a legal battle to be had then it would be the member that was personally persued for making false accusations - NOT pistnheads.
6speedonline - a huge USA web forum do not opperate such pathetic nameing and shaming rules, people are free to vent there views without the fear of being binned/banned or having the thread deleted, And im sure that if any legal battles would have been persued im sure as hell it would have happened there.
Grow a pair PH and start protecting your community,
It seems to me that although i dont beleive this is the case in this instance, a number of threads/posts that are deleted due to naming and shaming are directed at board sponsors or company's that advertise here
Now awaits binning or for the post/thread to be deleted..........Ho hum
I had responded to your response last night. But the commies censors deleted my response ks me off.It's not exactly a level playing field is it, People look to PH for advice on various vendors and companys to see if there any good.
The fact that all board members are going to read is various apraisals and people stating nothing but positive comments for the said companys - When in reality there not all there cracked up to be and could have been avoided makes me sick.
PH all you are doing by not naming and shaming is allowing these crooks to carry on opperating and ripping off these innocent people - If this is the case then you should operate a policy not allowing people to appraise companys either.
As for a previous post that I read on here about PH being legally liable for peoples oppinionated views - what complete rubbish that is, after all its peoples opinions, not views agreed with by pistonheads - if there's a legal battle to be had then it would be the member that was personally persued for making false accusations - NOT pistnheads.
6speedonline - a huge USA web forum do not opperate such pathetic nameing and shaming rules, people are free to vent there views without the fear of being binned/banned or having the thread deleted, And im sure that if any legal battles would have been persued im sure as hell it would have happened there.
Grow a pair PH and start protecting your community,
It seems to me that although i dont beleive this is the case in this instance, a number of threads/posts that are deleted due to naming and shaming are directed at board sponsors or company's that advertise here
Now awaits binning or for the post/thread to be deleted..........Ho hum
In a nut shell i was saying that i agreed with your comments 100%. No matter what long winded response the commie censors give, it is what it is. No balls to name and shame.
"Commie Censors"?
Please go and do some googling on Media Law and the laws of libel in the United Kingdom before you throw about ill thought through abuse like this here, either about the site's employees or our moderators.
PistonHeads isn't a place where you have ever been able to freely air issues like this. Not in the past, not now, not ever. I deleted your post because you named the dealer concerned, and I assumed that you'd take even more umbrage if I edited it instead.
Please go and do some googling on Media Law and the laws of libel in the United Kingdom before you throw about ill thought through abuse like this here, either about the site's employees or our moderators.
PistonHeads isn't a place where you have ever been able to freely air issues like this. Not in the past, not now, not ever. I deleted your post because you named the dealer concerned, and I assumed that you'd take even more umbrage if I edited it instead.
Speaking personally, I'd prefer editing rather than complete deletion. At least that way it shows that there's some discontent from the owners which could then be discussed in private if need be.
When it comes to the legal aspects of naming and shaming, a key qualifier for defamation laws is that the statements in question would need to be false. There's no reason the following procedure can't be used:
a) User makes post accusing someone of something
b) Accused then complains to PH about said post
c) PH temporarily removes post/thread from view while accused proves that stated facts are false
d) PH decides whether to reinstate post if facts prove to be true.
As long as PH acts promptly in the event of a notified complaint it has a valid defence under the 1966 defamation act.
With the current policy as it is, PH should be deleting any post that makes any potentially disparaging comments towards any individual whatsoever including other forum users. As this clearly happens a lot (when you go to the zoo, you feed the monkeys. When you go to a forum, you feed the trolls) you'd have to be continually deleting substantial amounts of content from the site which would end up royally annoying your userbase who will eventually go elsewhere. I can vaguely remember a post where someone made a comment with some untrue connotations towards me, which I could in the literal sense begin an action for. Doing so however would be pure folly and a complete waste of money and the legal systems resources.
Ironically, by deleting content that users have placed here under the pretence of protecting PH from the defamation laws suggest that the users in question may have made up said facts which is in itself a potentially defamatory action against the users. I seriously think PH need to take another look at the laws related to this subject and revise its policies in this respect.
In the real world, if someone posts about issues they have had with a particular dealer which are well founded, why would the dealer try to take you to court? Doing so would be a complete waste of money for them and only serve to highlight their inadequacies further still.
When it comes to the legal aspects of naming and shaming, a key qualifier for defamation laws is that the statements in question would need to be false. There's no reason the following procedure can't be used:
a) User makes post accusing someone of something
b) Accused then complains to PH about said post
c) PH temporarily removes post/thread from view while accused proves that stated facts are false
d) PH decides whether to reinstate post if facts prove to be true.
As long as PH acts promptly in the event of a notified complaint it has a valid defence under the 1966 defamation act.
With the current policy as it is, PH should be deleting any post that makes any potentially disparaging comments towards any individual whatsoever including other forum users. As this clearly happens a lot (when you go to the zoo, you feed the monkeys. When you go to a forum, you feed the trolls) you'd have to be continually deleting substantial amounts of content from the site which would end up royally annoying your userbase who will eventually go elsewhere. I can vaguely remember a post where someone made a comment with some untrue connotations towards me, which I could in the literal sense begin an action for. Doing so however would be pure folly and a complete waste of money and the legal systems resources.
Ironically, by deleting content that users have placed here under the pretence of protecting PH from the defamation laws suggest that the users in question may have made up said facts which is in itself a potentially defamatory action against the users. I seriously think PH need to take another look at the laws related to this subject and revise its policies in this respect.
In the real world, if someone posts about issues they have had with a particular dealer which are well founded, why would the dealer try to take you to court? Doing so would be a complete waste of money for them and only serve to highlight their inadequacies further still.
UVB said:
Speaking personally, I'd prefer editing rather than complete deletion. At least that way it shows that there's some discontent from the owners which could then be discussed in private if need be.
When it comes to the legal aspects of naming and shaming, a key qualifier for defamation laws is that the statements in question would need to be false. There's no reason the following procedure can't be used:
a) User makes post accusing someone of something
b) Accused then complains to PH about said post
c) PH temporarily removes post/thread from view while accused proves that stated facts are false
d) PH decides whether to reinstate post if facts prove to be true.
As long as PH acts promptly in the event of a notified complaint it has a valid defence under the 1966 defamation act.
With the current policy as it is, PH should be deleting any post that makes any potentially disparaging comments towards any individual whatsoever including other forum users. As this clearly happens a lot (when you go to the zoo, you feed the monkeys. When you go to a forum, you feed the trolls) you'd have to be continually deleting substantial amounts of content from the site which would end up royally annoying your userbase who will eventually go elsewhere. I can vaguely remember a post where someone made a comment with some untrue connotations towards me, which I could in the literal sense begin an action for. Doing so however would be pure folly and a complete waste of money and the legal systems resources.
Ironically, by deleting content that users have placed here under the pretence of protecting PH from the defamation laws suggest that the users in question may have made up said facts which is in itself a potentially defamatory action against the users. I seriously think PH need to take another look at the laws related to this subject and revise its policies in this respect.
In the real world, if someone posts about issues they have had with a particular dealer which are well founded, why would the dealer try to take you to court? Doing so would be a complete waste of money for them and only serve to highlight their inadequacies further still.
Sensible advice, thanks.When it comes to the legal aspects of naming and shaming, a key qualifier for defamation laws is that the statements in question would need to be false. There's no reason the following procedure can't be used:
a) User makes post accusing someone of something
b) Accused then complains to PH about said post
c) PH temporarily removes post/thread from view while accused proves that stated facts are false
d) PH decides whether to reinstate post if facts prove to be true.
As long as PH acts promptly in the event of a notified complaint it has a valid defence under the 1966 defamation act.
With the current policy as it is, PH should be deleting any post that makes any potentially disparaging comments towards any individual whatsoever including other forum users. As this clearly happens a lot (when you go to the zoo, you feed the monkeys. When you go to a forum, you feed the trolls) you'd have to be continually deleting substantial amounts of content from the site which would end up royally annoying your userbase who will eventually go elsewhere. I can vaguely remember a post where someone made a comment with some untrue connotations towards me, which I could in the literal sense begin an action for. Doing so however would be pure folly and a complete waste of money and the legal systems resources.
Ironically, by deleting content that users have placed here under the pretence of protecting PH from the defamation laws suggest that the users in question may have made up said facts which is in itself a potentially defamatory action against the users. I seriously think PH need to take another look at the laws related to this subject and revise its policies in this respect.
In the real world, if someone posts about issues they have had with a particular dealer which are well founded, why would the dealer try to take you to court? Doing so would be a complete waste of money for them and only serve to highlight their inadequacies further still.
In this instance the thread was moved due to a specific complaint. Unless it is quite obviously defamation we'll usually leave things up but in an edited state because we generally dislike removing content unless absolutely necessary. However, as you suggest, once we've been notified of a grievance we really have no choice but to act to remove any potentially damaging comments. To not do so can quickly get expensive.
We could take the view that we'll leave every comment up and let anyone with a grievance fight it out in the courts, but I just have an aversion to handing over so much cash to lawyers when it could be used for useful stuff like new servers and the tea bags for the chaps in the office. It was always Ted's view, and we don't feel any differently.
Stuart said:
Sensible advice, thanks.
In this instance the thread was moved due to a specific complaint. Unless it is quite obviously defamation we'll usually leave things up but in an edited state because we generally dislike removing content unless absolutely necessary. However, as you suggest, once we've been notified of a grievance we really have no choice but to act to remove any potentially damaging comments. To not do so can quickly get expensive.
We could take the view that we'll leave every comment up and let anyone with a grievance fight it out in the courts, but I just have an aversion to handing over so much cash to lawyers when it could be used for useful stuff like new servers and the tea bags for the chaps in the office. It was always Ted's view, and we don't feel any differently.
So what's the procedure once a complaint has been made (beyond moving the post)? Again from a personal perspective, the threads deleted had comments that I made towards a specific dealer. If they have complained about my comments, I would think it logical to give me the opportunity to review and reply to their comments (in private of course) to give you the perspective on which to make a balanced decision? At present it probably appears to the users as though anyone can just say "this isn't true" and get the post deleted even if there is incontrovertible evidence to the contrary.In this instance the thread was moved due to a specific complaint. Unless it is quite obviously defamation we'll usually leave things up but in an edited state because we generally dislike removing content unless absolutely necessary. However, as you suggest, once we've been notified of a grievance we really have no choice but to act to remove any potentially damaging comments. To not do so can quickly get expensive.
We could take the view that we'll leave every comment up and let anyone with a grievance fight it out in the courts, but I just have an aversion to handing over so much cash to lawyers when it could be used for useful stuff like new servers and the tea bags for the chaps in the office. It was always Ted's view, and we don't feel any differently.
With regards your reply quoted above, it may prove worth investing in some high quality legal advice in respect of improving and publishing policies related to this and associated user agreements. One amount of money spent in that respect will probably pay dividends in the long run. I can empathise with your perspective having owned a significant forum entity in the past myself - I can even recommend a good firm of solicitors that won't charge the earth too if you need it.
Would it help if before making any comments towards specific entities in the future, we put a paragraph along these lines first?
"The following statement contains truthful comments that I make personally and in no way reflect the views of Pistonheads. I personally take full responsibility for these comments and indemnify Pistonheads against any resulting actions that may subsequently occur"
Edited by UVB on Tuesday 7th July 11:01
Actually Stuart I would have much rather you edited it and left it on.. is it too late for that now?
I wasn’t aware of the various rule of posting things like this until now and I had read with interest a lot of other members topics, comments and similar experiences and thought it was a good idea to share my experience as it beggars belief that this could happen with such a prestigious company..
I’ve seen a lot of your members immediately come back with very negative comments towards the OP where the views seem very one sided and unjustified and I think it just shows that whilst i was airing a grievance - mine was not "made up" nor have I detracted from the gods honest truth anywhere along the lines, and as a result I was very grateful to receive a huge amount of support and shared sympathy from Piston heads members. On a separate note, there are countless witnesses to this case, photographic date and time stamped evidence clearly documented which is readily available…
My experience is a very unfortunate one and clearly I was keen for others to hear about it, hoping that customers would be cautious and that the dealers would review procedures to make sure that this type of treatment of other people’s property doesn’t happen moving forward. Hopefully " the powers that be" reading would insist that their relevant departments tighten their belts accordingly..
I can only surmise that the company in question has been in touch and that the right people have read the post and the comments.. Which is great.. My only real sadness is that it shouldn’t take this kind of action to get people to stand up and listen!
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