Discussion
to be giving any consideration to the S3 Espada in the classifieds?
This is a serious question, it was my favourite car when I was 13 and I still love it's looks.
What would it be like to live with one? Would I have to treat it with kid gloves all the time or would it take the occasional "italian tune up"?
This is a serious question, it was my favourite car when I was 13 and I still love it's looks.
What would it be like to live with one? Would I have to treat it with kid gloves all the time or would it take the occasional "italian tune up"?
tannucatsHotblack:
A fellow LCUK member has been to see this car in the last few days...
The vendor seems to have certain bizarre ideas about the car - such as saying the aircon system was so good on the series III cars that rear roof vents were not needed (this is a bs statement in both respects) and the door bottoms are rotten and would need expensive work to repair if it's not something you could do yourself...
The car was within LCUK up to 1996, the interior looks pretty good and if you really want a project that would cost a good £10k+ to make a good car from - go and buy this car, but not at that price... amongst other things, you will note the lack of engine bay pictures in the advert which implies something, somehow...
A good Espada is a joy forever, there are no comparable cars from other manufacturers with such stature and such style and, once properly brought up to a good standard, they are excellent cars that make many a 'sports car' of the era (and still!!) seem slow and mean...
LCUK has a large number of Espada owners who will confirm how great a car they are to own, maintain and drive but, if you are 'outside' the wide and deep pool of experience, they can be a wallet-emptying, spirit-crushing waste of time and money.
Standard comment warning: that w & d p of e exists within Lamborghini Club UK - see our website at
www.lamborghiniclub.co.uk
for more information and contact Tannucats as noted by Andrew.
And no, you're not mad
- no more than any other Lamborghini-infatuated person!! 
A fellow LCUK member has been to see this car in the last few days...
The vendor seems to have certain bizarre ideas about the car - such as saying the aircon system was so good on the series III cars that rear roof vents were not needed (this is a bs statement in both respects) and the door bottoms are rotten and would need expensive work to repair if it's not something you could do yourself...
The car was within LCUK up to 1996, the interior looks pretty good and if you really want a project that would cost a good £10k+ to make a good car from - go and buy this car, but not at that price... amongst other things, you will note the lack of engine bay pictures in the advert which implies something, somehow...
A good Espada is a joy forever, there are no comparable cars from other manufacturers with such stature and such style and, once properly brought up to a good standard, they are excellent cars that make many a 'sports car' of the era (and still!!) seem slow and mean...
LCUK has a large number of Espada owners who will confirm how great a car they are to own, maintain and drive but, if you are 'outside' the wide and deep pool of experience, they can be a wallet-emptying, spirit-crushing waste of time and money.
Standard comment warning: that w & d p of e exists within Lamborghini Club UK - see our website at
www.lamborghiniclub.co.uk
for more information and contact Tannucats as noted by Andrew.
And no, you're not mad
- no more than any other Lamborghini-infatuated person!! Thanks XXVIII. Useful info, you suggest it being a project that would require £10K + to put right, do you think it would be driveable during period of renovation or would it be off the road for some time while work was completed?
Do you have a view on what would be a reasonable price to pay for a good (not excellent) condition car? Ideally I want something that I can do 3-4K miles p.a. and spend £2-3K p.a. to maintain over and above standard running & servicing costs. Is this at all realistic or will I need to spend more to keep it one on the road.
TIA
H
Do you have a view on what would be a reasonable price to pay for a good (not excellent) condition car? Ideally I want something that I can do 3-4K miles p.a. and spend £2-3K p.a. to maintain over and above standard running & servicing costs. Is this at all realistic or will I need to spend more to keep it one on the road.
TIA
H
Hotblack said:
do you think it would be driveable during period
what would be a reasonable price to pay for a good (not excellent) condition car?
This car would need at least a very full service to a hub greasing 'level' and all oils removed and replaced, all fluids (eg water, brake and clutch fluid etc) removed and replaced and a set of brake pads, + both petrol tanks to be cleared of as much grit and any watery old fuel as possible.what would be a reasonable price to pay for a good (not excellent) condition car?
I think it's safest to suggest you have a few hundred quid for that work to be done (by yourself!) and do the engine a kindness and NEVER use modern synthetic or semi-synthetic oil that will strip away the coatings from the camshafts and other parts and prevent too much of a 'no lead in fuel' doom problem occurring.
You might wish to have the heads rebuilt with hardened valve seats...
One of the UK's best known fettlers of older Lamborghinis used to charge £500 for that work... as in £500 per cylinder...
Or you can make sure which of the two main kinds of lead-substitute fluids have been used (if any) and figure the cost of those into your motoring - Castrol's with octane booster adds at least 5p per litre of fuel used to your costs...
also, word to the wise - DON'T mix the two kinds of additive to prevent erm... death of engine syndrome and don't use any of that LRP fuel as it's rubbish. DO use the best fuel you can get and an additive... all pre-1980s Lamborghinis would much prefer things if you used FIVE STAR level fuel so at least 98 octane or more.
If all six carbs are balanced, don't pay anything to have them rebalanced. Ever. If they are way off on then get that sorted out but, to stress, DON'T pay money to have them rebalanced every few thousand miles... (I think the long-ago con of charging for that not-needed-work has mostly stopped nowadays but there'll always be those who'd pay when they are fed the bs!!)
So, 'driveable' probably easily enough but I'd advise all the above and get a real expert to look at the car before you buy... as mentioned, real experts are within LCUK ...
Our outgoing Chairman has 'some' Espada experience going back 20+ years, having rebuilt at least 5 of them, owned 3 or more including the 2 he has these days. I'd say he'd be in the bracket of 'expert' though he would claim otherwise, I'm sure.
This car could be considered 'good' if an amount of attention was paid to it. I'd chip the seller hard (sub £10k?) and the issues with the door rust and the roof slots would need addressing regardless of using the car at all as large bills would surely follow...
A normal value for an immediately useable Espada would be closer to £20k at the moment. £15k is more the kind of money they were selling for ten+ years ago. A pristine near-perfection Espada would be pushing at least £50k right now and such levels of Espada value certainly exist - I know, I've been fortunate enough to drive a couple of them!!
A properly 'useable' Espada that doesn't need any sudden expenditure shouldn't cost more than £2k a year to run - but the next year may include a bill the size of the original purchase cost if the car isn't cared for as it requires.
My best suggestion would be that you join LCUK. Most (if not quite all) of the UK's remaining herd of Espadas are within the Club, so you may as well be too!
OK. Club joined. Sounds like I need to know quite a bit more about these before I consider a purchase, I hadn't even considered the fuel issues, how do you even know if it has been treated correctly.
So having never been a member of a car club before (or any other club for that matter, following Groucho Marx philosophy) what's the protocol for making contact and asking for help?
Do you have regular meetings/shows?
TIA
H
So having never been a member of a car club before (or any other club for that matter, following Groucho Marx philosophy) what's the protocol for making contact and asking for help?
Do you have regular meetings/shows?
TIA
H
Hello Hotblack. I was just reading through the posts and your application dropped in. You will be receiving your welcome pack from me shortly when I am wearing my mem.sec hat.
Espada. We bought our first one in 1978. It was the only car we had and I drove it every single day, taking the kids to school, shopping, working Friday nights in a pub even in the snow with a shovel in the back for "just in case" stuff. Hand brake was the only bit I was wary of. I loved the car and still do. Unfortunately over 20 years ago, it had to come off the road as we could not locate silencers at the time to get it through an MOT. We were very green in those days. This car is now in the middle of a complete re-build. A labour of love and incredibly deep pockets. Once we started on this road it was too far along to call a halt, so we press on. The shell has been painted and all the suspension and mechanics are back on. The wheels were done at Lepsoms in Gillingham and I located a set of tyres which were close to £1000 which they fitted at the same time. They are about to put the wheels on to take it off the trolley. The wiring loom has been laid in and parts of it will need replacing but mostly okay. When it is finished it will be concours and it will never be sold but I will probably be broke as well.
I did post some pictures ages ago but I am not very good at doing that bit so Andrew. if you can re-do them that would be great. There is loads more to tell and I will make a book of it when finished. The front cover will show a picture of Valentino Balboni and Richard (owner) squatting beside the engine at the factory where it had its rebuild. That alone, cost over 20000 euros.
So, if you would like to talk Espadas to Richard, feel free to call, he is available most evenings. PM me for numbers.
Dont let me put you off, just be very aware of what you are buying before you commit yourself to a potential bottomless pit.
tannucats
Espada. We bought our first one in 1978. It was the only car we had and I drove it every single day, taking the kids to school, shopping, working Friday nights in a pub even in the snow with a shovel in the back for "just in case" stuff. Hand brake was the only bit I was wary of. I loved the car and still do. Unfortunately over 20 years ago, it had to come off the road as we could not locate silencers at the time to get it through an MOT. We were very green in those days. This car is now in the middle of a complete re-build. A labour of love and incredibly deep pockets. Once we started on this road it was too far along to call a halt, so we press on. The shell has been painted and all the suspension and mechanics are back on. The wheels were done at Lepsoms in Gillingham and I located a set of tyres which were close to £1000 which they fitted at the same time. They are about to put the wheels on to take it off the trolley. The wiring loom has been laid in and parts of it will need replacing but mostly okay. When it is finished it will be concours and it will never be sold but I will probably be broke as well.
I did post some pictures ages ago but I am not very good at doing that bit so Andrew. if you can re-do them that would be great. There is loads more to tell and I will make a book of it when finished. The front cover will show a picture of Valentino Balboni and Richard (owner) squatting beside the engine at the factory where it had its rebuild. That alone, cost over 20000 euros.
So, if you would like to talk Espadas to Richard, feel free to call, he is available most evenings. PM me for numbers.
Dont let me put you off, just be very aware of what you are buying before you commit yourself to a potential bottomless pit.
tannucats
Are you mad? Almost certainly - but you are not alone!
I have an old V8, not a V12. In the last 10 years over £40,000 has been spent on this car (the majority not by me I hasten to add). I reckon a further £10,000 needs to be spent to bring to mint. My previous V8 must have cost me at least a simlar amount over 20+ years of ownership. The message? - Never underestimate the cost of running a Lamborghini and particularly so a V12! Do it because you want to - not because you think it might be an investment!
I have an old V8, not a V12. In the last 10 years over £40,000 has been spent on this car (the majority not by me I hasten to add). I reckon a further £10,000 needs to be spent to bring to mint. My previous V8 must have cost me at least a simlar amount over 20+ years of ownership. The message? - Never underestimate the cost of running a Lamborghini and particularly so a V12! Do it because you want to - not because you think it might be an investment!
tannucats said:
I did post some pictures ages ago but I am not very good at doing that bit so Andrew. if you can re-do them that would be great.
tannucats said:
Its a very long story, but these are the only 2 pictures I have of the car when it was roadworthy. Richard bought it in December 1977 and at that time it was the only car we had. I drove it more than he did and took the kids to school, went shopping and worked in a pub on a Friday night at it was parked outside there as well. To me, it was just a set of wheels to get from A to B! I had no idea of the exclusivity of owning a lamborghini at that time. It was due for an MOT and we found that the exhaust pipes were breaking through and had no idea on how to find replacements. It was laid up then, some time mid 80's and hasnt been on the road since. In recent times, we sent it back to the factory with the intention of them carrying out the restoration. Sadly for us, Audi then came on the scene and pricing went through the roof. Just the engine and gearbox and transmission was done there. Through Valentino, we met Bruno, who did not speak a word of english but his company had originally built all of the interiors for the muira, countach and espada. What a find. He had made a complete new interior for us, in exactly the same colour and pattern on the leather as the original. It is laying out in a spare bedroom at the moment!
The respray is now finished and the restoration can begin
It first went to Jennings Engineering in Essex who took it apart. We had a donor shell from Ant Hawkes and Mark Walpole in Norwich has done all of the preparation work to get it ready before he did the paint spray.
If this works, more later
Lynne
http://s441.photobucket.com/albums/qq132/tannucats...The respray is now finished and the restoration can begin
It first went to Jennings Engineering in Essex who took it apart. We had a donor shell from Ant Hawkes and Mark Walpole in Norwich has done all of the preparation work to get it ready before he did the paint spray.
If this works, more later
Lynne
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