Living with an F430?
Discussion
I am sure there are threads on this already but via search I am abysmally failing so would be delighted to be given some links if such things exist!
The idea of an early F430 Spider is becoming more and more appealing, especially now that it looks like you can pick up a 2005 F1 for a touch over £70,000. There are a couple in that sort of price range, fairly low mileage for the age (<20,000) and looking absolutely stunning, but I'm trying to work out the reasons why it's a bad idea! I'm completely in need of an education in Ferrari shopping about when's the right time to go for it.
Depreciation - I guess my first question is what sort of depreciation might happen on such a car assuming it was looked after brilliantly; down from £70,000 to maybe £50,000 in 2 years time, is that an unrealistically high estimation?
Economy - what actual real world economy do you get out of a car like this? Is hoping for 13/14mpg or so unreasonable? Or am I about to be shocked and told that 10mpg is what you get if you are lucky?
Costs - Trying to work out everything involved, insurance doesn't change too significantly so happy with all of that; tyres are cheaper than my current car although presumably need replacing much more frequently (10k miles?), I'd go up a bracket in road tax (£200) but that's ok. I'd be happy getting the car serviced at an Independent - is that something like £1000 a year? I expect to drive it 7-8,000 miles a year including a few trips abroad. I know you could get hit by a big bill any time, but really you can on any car, maybe a couple of thousand a year in case?
What are the thoughts? If I'm on the mark with things it might just about fall into place. Do you still have 2 years of warranty with cars bought from Ferrari dealerships?
If I did it, I'd definitely have to become a streetcar member again for those times when you really don't want to clock up the miles! (and maybe when you need a little practicality)
Anyway at this stage just trying to think about it, the alternative is a 1yr old AM V8 Vantage Roadster which comes in at about the same money.
Thanks!
The idea of an early F430 Spider is becoming more and more appealing, especially now that it looks like you can pick up a 2005 F1 for a touch over £70,000. There are a couple in that sort of price range, fairly low mileage for the age (<20,000) and looking absolutely stunning, but I'm trying to work out the reasons why it's a bad idea! I'm completely in need of an education in Ferrari shopping about when's the right time to go for it.
Depreciation - I guess my first question is what sort of depreciation might happen on such a car assuming it was looked after brilliantly; down from £70,000 to maybe £50,000 in 2 years time, is that an unrealistically high estimation?
Economy - what actual real world economy do you get out of a car like this? Is hoping for 13/14mpg or so unreasonable? Or am I about to be shocked and told that 10mpg is what you get if you are lucky?
Costs - Trying to work out everything involved, insurance doesn't change too significantly so happy with all of that; tyres are cheaper than my current car although presumably need replacing much more frequently (10k miles?), I'd go up a bracket in road tax (£200) but that's ok. I'd be happy getting the car serviced at an Independent - is that something like £1000 a year? I expect to drive it 7-8,000 miles a year including a few trips abroad. I know you could get hit by a big bill any time, but really you can on any car, maybe a couple of thousand a year in case?
What are the thoughts? If I'm on the mark with things it might just about fall into place. Do you still have 2 years of warranty with cars bought from Ferrari dealerships?
If I did it, I'd definitely have to become a streetcar member again for those times when you really don't want to clock up the miles! (and maybe when you need a little practicality)
Anyway at this stage just trying to think about it, the alternative is a 1yr old AM V8 Vantage Roadster which comes in at about the same money.
Thanks!
Not a supercar owner but it seems your figures looks fairly accurate in what to expect. I've read so many threads from owners and they all seem to follow the same kind of numbers your showing.
As for depreciation, if you allow for a £20k drop then you'll be fine. I doubt it'll go down that fast (IMO) because it'll then hit the price of 360's which are around £40-£60k at present (and they probably won't rocket down in price for a while yet). If expect it to be in the region of £50k in two years and your happy with that then go for it (only live once and money is meant to be spent).
Its the big things like clutch that apparently cost a big whack, so I guess you'll need someone that owns one on here to give you more info on what to expect for the bigger things.
Good luck in your search - sounds like your likely to take the plunge and live the dream (and why not?).
As for depreciation, if you allow for a £20k drop then you'll be fine. I doubt it'll go down that fast (IMO) because it'll then hit the price of 360's which are around £40-£60k at present (and they probably won't rocket down in price for a while yet). If expect it to be in the region of £50k in two years and your happy with that then go for it (only live once and money is meant to be spent).
Its the big things like clutch that apparently cost a big whack, so I guess you'll need someone that owns one on here to give you more info on what to expect for the bigger things.
Good luck in your search - sounds like your likely to take the plunge and live the dream (and why not?).
Agree with Anubis on the depreciation. Obviously if you buy from a dealer and sell to a dealer you need to work in their £10k, but at £50k you're bumping into 360s, so I shouldn't think you'll be too far out.
Fuel consumption. Honestly, if you have to ask, etc, etc. I only use mine at the weekend, and haven't done any long runs, so not sure about when you're averaging 56mph on the M1 for 100 miles. It drinks the stuff for a living! A bigger appetite than anything I've ever known, makes a V8 RR and a DB9 seem like a diesel Micra.
Lots of different warranties available depending on age, and history. Check with a dealer. The Power warranty is good, and more comprehensive than I thought (it paid for new front suspension arms when the trackrod ends were "slightly worn").
My advice is to buy one. Soon.
Fuel consumption. Honestly, if you have to ask, etc, etc. I only use mine at the weekend, and haven't done any long runs, so not sure about when you're averaging 56mph on the M1 for 100 miles. It drinks the stuff for a living! A bigger appetite than anything I've ever known, makes a V8 RR and a DB9 seem like a diesel Micra.
Lots of different warranties available depending on age, and history. Check with a dealer. The Power warranty is good, and more comprehensive than I thought (it paid for new front suspension arms when the trackrod ends were "slightly worn").
My advice is to buy one. Soon.
Edited by MaxAndRuby on Wednesday 13th October 17:04
MaxAndRuby said:
Fuel consumption. Honestly, if you have to ask, etc, etc. I only use mine at the weekend, and haven't done any long runs, so not sure about when you're averaging 56mph on the M1 for 100 miles. It drinks the stuff for a living! A bigger appetite than anything I've ever known, makes a V8 RR and a DB9 seem like a diesel Micra.
Everyone says that; it's very hard for someone like me who doesn't have a Ferrari, and doesn't know anybody who does to guess what it will actually be; and over 20,000 miles in 2 years maybe the cost difference between 14mpg and 10mpg is huge.At 14mpg and 120p/l it's approximately £8,100 for 20,000 miles, at 10mpg it's more like £11400. That's a huge difference, and I don't believe the "if you have to ask" thing because I can afford an F430 but £3,300 is significant to me, it is 5% of the price of the car after all!
Anyway, I do definitely need to look into warranty options, can you buy a car from elsewhere and get some sort of Ferrari warranty on it? I assume not due to them not necessarily having serviced it etc (I say that but now I'm reading about it here: http://www.dicklovett.co.uk/Dick-Lovett-Group/Afte... )
Unfortunately the only Ferrari dealership I've been into were not hugely interested to speak to me, it was literally as if the salesman didn't want to know. Quite the opposite from Mr Aston Martin.
Shmee said:
MaxAndRuby said:
Fuel consumption. Honestly, if you have to ask, etc, etc. I only use mine at the weekend, and haven't done any long runs, so not sure about when you're averaging 56mph on the M1 for 100 miles. It drinks the stuff for a living! A bigger appetite than anything I've ever known, makes a V8 RR and a DB9 seem like a diesel Micra.
Everyone says that; it's very hard for someone like me who doesn't have a Ferrari, and doesn't know anybody who does to guess what it will actually be; and over 20,000 miles in 2 years maybe the cost difference between 14mpg and 10mpg is huge.At 14mpg and 120p/l it's approximately £8,100 for 20,000 miles, at 10mpg it's more like £11400. That's a huge difference, and I don't believe the "if you have to ask" thing because I can afford an F430 but £3,300 is significant to me, it is 5% of the price of the car after all!
Anyway, I do definitely need to look into warranty options, can you buy a car from elsewhere and get some sort of Ferrari warranty on it? I assume not due to them not necessarily having serviced it etc (I say that but now I'm reading about it here: http://www.dicklovett.co.uk/Dick-Lovett-Group/Afte... )
Unfortunately the only Ferrari dealership I've been into were not hugely interested to speak to me, it was literally as if the salesman didn't want to know. Quite the opposite from Mr Aston Martin.
We run a F430 last year and for everyday use you will easily get 14mpg, on the run there is no reason why you wont see 20mpg. We are currently running a California and having returned from Portugal at the end of the summer after covering 3,000 miles (2 adults + 2 Kids and the boot fully loaded) we average out over the whole journey 23.2mpg, although mostly motorway and fast A roads we were not hanging a round!, the only thing to watch is the insurance which seems to have shot up in the last 6 months
Bought my 430 spider last December and used it more or less as an everyday car. Your estimated costs seem pretty accurate, tyres are roughly £1k a set from memory. If you use independents that should keep the costs down. Can't comment on MPG because I've never sat and worked it out and the car doesn't have a trip computer. Rough estimate would be that I needed fuel once a week and i probably did about 100 miles a week.
As for warranties, you can get aftermarket warranties from third party companies but I've heard mixed views on these. If you take your car to a official Ferrari garage and get it inspected (couple hundred quid) then you can add their warranty on for I think £2k. That would be the same warranty you would get if you bought it from the dealer.
If there's anything else you want to know feel free to PM me.
As for warranties, you can get aftermarket warranties from third party companies but I've heard mixed views on these. If you take your car to a official Ferrari garage and get it inspected (couple hundred quid) then you can add their warranty on for I think £2k. That would be the same warranty you would get if you bought it from the dealer.
If there's anything else you want to know feel free to PM me.
top end independents use 3rd party warranties such as warrantywise. I had that one with unlimited claims up to total value of car. I only claimed once for a defective tracker and they paid out fine, cant say if that is representative though. ferrari warrany i think was just under 3k and this was about half that. MPG no idea as (luckily) it doesnt tell you.
on depreciation i would think it would be fairly gradual from here. Prices dont seem to me much lower over the last year i guess thats correlated to the economy and stock prices. there is always a wide variance in pricing and if you tried to sell to a trader you could see bids 15k below where they are for sale
on depreciation i would think it would be fairly gradual from here. Prices dont seem to me much lower over the last year i guess thats correlated to the economy and stock prices. there is always a wide variance in pricing and if you tried to sell to a trader you could see bids 15k below where they are for sale
Hi Shmee,
I'm coming up for my first year of ownership of my 430, so here are some facts
- i'm about to renew the power normal warranty for another year which costs £2500
- the car will be getting an 18750 mile service as i've done just under 12k miles this year. The service cost is £1500
- the 18750 is a major service, if you're not doing anything like 12k miles a year all you'd need is an annual service at a cost of £800
- in my 12k miles I've needed 2 front tyres at a cost of £170 each for the Ferrari bridgestones
- i'll need rear tyres soon and these are around £220 each
- I average between 10-15mpg
- the only other expense in my year has been an exhaust silencer that wasn't covered under warranty which cost £600
- insurance was £550
So all in all i'm looking at around 5k for this year. Half of that is just to extend the warranty. Unlikely depreciation will be anything like you've written, prices are pretty much the same this year as they were last year.
I can honestly say that buying the 430 is the best thing i've ever done with money, it brings a smile to my face every day and even after almost a year of ownership I still find myself just going into the garage for a look, it is without a doubt f
king awesome!
If you can do it, then do it, it's doubtful you'll look back when you're old and say "I wish I hadn't bought that Ferrrari"
As for the V8 vantage, Meh, nice car but no comparison...
John.
I'm coming up for my first year of ownership of my 430, so here are some facts
- i'm about to renew the power normal warranty for another year which costs £2500
- the car will be getting an 18750 mile service as i've done just under 12k miles this year. The service cost is £1500
- the 18750 is a major service, if you're not doing anything like 12k miles a year all you'd need is an annual service at a cost of £800
- in my 12k miles I've needed 2 front tyres at a cost of £170 each for the Ferrari bridgestones
- i'll need rear tyres soon and these are around £220 each
- I average between 10-15mpg
- the only other expense in my year has been an exhaust silencer that wasn't covered under warranty which cost £600
- insurance was £550
So all in all i'm looking at around 5k for this year. Half of that is just to extend the warranty. Unlikely depreciation will be anything like you've written, prices are pretty much the same this year as they were last year.
I can honestly say that buying the 430 is the best thing i've ever done with money, it brings a smile to my face every day and even after almost a year of ownership I still find myself just going into the garage for a look, it is without a doubt f
king awesome!If you can do it, then do it, it's doubtful you'll look back when you're old and say "I wish I hadn't bought that Ferrrari"
As for the V8 vantage, Meh, nice car but no comparison...
John.
Edited by steelej on Thursday 14th October 00:32
Thanks for all of the brilliant replies, very insightful and great to see it all written down.
One of the things I need to work out I guess is if buying a car around the 15-17,000 mile mark, it is very shortly going to need the £1500 service, as well as the £2500 on warranty so I need to add £4,000 if not £5,000 onto the purchase cost in my mind. These are the things that I didn't think about so much and immediately make it a lot more expensive.
I'm going to go and look at one at the weekend, and then look at the Aston again, and then come back to think.
It's one of those "head says no, heart says yes" situations big time, head says wait another year!
One of the things I need to work out I guess is if buying a car around the 15-17,000 mile mark, it is very shortly going to need the £1500 service, as well as the £2500 on warranty so I need to add £4,000 if not £5,000 onto the purchase cost in my mind. These are the things that I didn't think about so much and immediately make it a lot more expensive.
I'm going to go and look at one at the weekend, and then look at the Aston again, and then come back to think.
It's one of those "head says no, heart says yes" situations big time, head says wait another year!
br d said:
I found the guys at Colchester superb Shmee, you could try there. You didn't wear a Lambo T-shirt when you went in did you?
It wouldn't surprise me if completely unaware I had done something stupid like that ha.steelej said:
If you can do it, then do it, it's doubtful you'll look back when you're old and say "I wish I hadn't bought that Ferrrari"
As for the V8 vantage, Meh, nice car but no comparison...
True, I'm not for a second assuming that, I guess the choice is whether to do it now, or next year, or the year after; when is the right car for the right money going to be available type thing. I like the V8V because it won't be outdated in the duration of time I would expect to own it, whereas the 458 Spider is around the corner, and I would be looking at a significantly younger car therefore cheaper to run and down the line costs etc. There's also the appearance perception - this is my only car after all, and a Ferrari is... well... a Ferrari.As for the V8 vantage, Meh, nice car but no comparison...
If you buy a 15000-17000 mile car from a main dealer you will get the 24 month warranty and it's highly likely it'll be serviced as part of the deal.
When I got mine last year, I had the major 6250 service done as well as all 4 tyres replaced as part of the deal, I missed the 24 month warranty by around 6 weeks as it was introduced in Jan 2010 hence why I need to renew it for another year now.
John.
When I got mine last year, I had the major 6250 service done as well as all 4 tyres replaced as part of the deal, I missed the 24 month warranty by around 6 weeks as it was introduced in Jan 2010 hence why I need to renew it for another year now
.John.
Shmee said:
I like the V8V because it won't be outdated in the duration of time I would expect to own it, whereas the 458 Spider is around the corner
You won't think that once you've actually got one. Aswell as performance, handling, looks you get an odd 'feeling' with a Ferrari. Having owned one I find myself drooling over 360s, a car I didn't previously like. It's as if you now understand so much more about the cars, the way that they're going to make you feel. I'm sure if I drove a 360 now it's ignite my excitement in the same way my 430 does.Fantastic post on here the other day with an owner comparing a 360 with his 430 Scuderia. Law of diminshing returns.
Trust me, if you get a Ferrari you won't be as concerned with the factors you're discussing here as you think you will be flipping through Top Marques. Get one, I don't know anyone who's ever regretted it.
I'm planning to go and look at one or two on Saturday and ask some questions of some salesmen, but another question that people on here will most likely be able to answer.
In my garage there is no easy access to a power socket for a battery conditioner, would I find that a 4/5 year old car sitting there unused between weekends (4-5 days) will result in a flat battery? How about if you leave it for 10 days or a fortnight?
Thanks
In my garage there is no easy access to a power socket for a battery conditioner, would I find that a 4/5 year old car sitting there unused between weekends (4-5 days) will result in a flat battery? How about if you leave it for 10 days or a fortnight?
Thanks
ferdi p said:
You'll need power or you may have to use the kill switch on the 430 if your planning to leave it for 14 days or more..
I doubt it would ever go more than 7 days untouched; I never go away for more than a week really so in that instance are we assuming this is not an issue I'd ever need to worry about? I have another car that I could start it up from if required.Mattymouse33 said:
steelej said:
I can honestly say that buying the 430 is the best thing so far i've ever done with money but i anticipate upgrading soon to the best of the best, Lamborghini.
John.
John.
Edited by steelej on Thursday 14th October 00:32
Shmee, I doubt you'll have any problems with the battery going flat not driving it during the week, just be sure to go for a good blast at the weekend
It says in the manual it should last 40 days not being used, not that I've ever tried it though John.
Edited by steelej on Friday 15th October 13:44
steelej said:
Mattymouse33 said:
steelej said:
I can honestly say that buying the 430 is the best thing so far i've ever done with money but i anticipate upgrading soon to the best of the best, Lamborghini.
John.
John.
Edited by steelej on Thursday 14th October 00:32
Shmee, I doubt you'll have any problems with the battery going flat not driving it during the week, just be sure to go for a good blast at the weekend
It says in the manual it should last 40 days not being used, not that I've ever tried it though John.
Edited by steelej on Friday 15th October 13:44
Well I think I'm ok, don't tend to go away for more than a week, and if I do it's because I've taken the car into Europe ergo no problemo. (ETA: Maybe different problems, but not that problem)
Looking at 2 tomorrow, naturally Rosso/Crema - criteria specifically is F1 Spider in Red/White/Yellow (not Black or Silver) with Scud shields then it gets complicated with FFSH and mileage - not that I'm buying one tomorrow but you all know how it is...
Looking at 2 tomorrow, naturally Rosso/Crema - criteria specifically is F1 Spider in Red/White/Yellow (not Black or Silver) with Scud shields then it gets complicated with FFSH and mileage - not that I'm buying one tomorrow but you all know how it is...
Edited by Shmee on Friday 15th October 15:07
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