430 Scud vs vanilla F430
Discussion
I am of course not an owner of either, I'm a student! But I've been a passenger in both. Before you stop reading and dismissing me as knowing nothing, my dream car is an F430 so I was interested in the difference at least. What I noticed was...
The F430 felt like it was fine cruising, but the power was there if you wanted it. The sound of the F430 makes it the perfect car for me; the valves open, the echo sounds, you shoot forward... perfect. The sound of those valves opening is worth any asking price for me. Plus the looks... I'm in a minority but the F430 is the best looking Ferrari EVER for me.
My feelings of the Scuderia... it was different, massively different. Felt like a different car. The F430 wanted to cruise along and give you a big kick in the back when you wanted it. The Scuderia wants to kick your face in at any time. It makes insane noises from the engine, the acceleration is epic and even pootling along at 30, it feels as though the car wants you to floor it and take it to its limit... it felt like a race car. That could be the power/weight differece, materials and/or sound proofing... but the Scuderia felt like a hardcore f
k off blast, the F430 a comfortable, outstanding soundtrack, beautiful all round car... but a fk off blast if you wanted it.
It's not an owners view, but that's my F430 story, and it's my dream car. What a problem to have.
In an ideal world, one would have both. An owner of both has a better view, but they are completely different cars. Forget the Porsche in my opinion, it misses the sense of occasion, event and beauty of a Ferrari even if matches or exceeds the performance.
At the end of the day it is what your heart desires! Heart Scud, head F430! Good luck, but a dream position to be in.
The F430 felt like it was fine cruising, but the power was there if you wanted it. The sound of the F430 makes it the perfect car for me; the valves open, the echo sounds, you shoot forward... perfect. The sound of those valves opening is worth any asking price for me. Plus the looks... I'm in a minority but the F430 is the best looking Ferrari EVER for me.
My feelings of the Scuderia... it was different, massively different. Felt like a different car. The F430 wanted to cruise along and give you a big kick in the back when you wanted it. The Scuderia wants to kick your face in at any time. It makes insane noises from the engine, the acceleration is epic and even pootling along at 30, it feels as though the car wants you to floor it and take it to its limit... it felt like a race car. That could be the power/weight differece, materials and/or sound proofing... but the Scuderia felt like a hardcore f
k off blast, the F430 a comfortable, outstanding soundtrack, beautiful all round car... but a fk off blast if you wanted it.It's not an owners view, but that's my F430 story, and it's my dream car. What a problem to have.
In an ideal world, one would have both. An owner of both has a better view, but they are completely different cars. Forget the Porsche in my opinion, it misses the sense of occasion, event and beauty of a Ferrari even if matches or exceeds the performance.
At the end of the day it is what your heart desires! Heart Scud, head F430! Good luck, but a dream position to be in.
Edited by CIE560 on Tuesday 7th December 01:28
boxerTen said:
A quick question for those of you who've sampled these: Is the 430 Scud worth the extra £50-60k over an F430? One could for example pick up a 997 GT3 with the difference ...
To be fair if you compare with like v like, say 09 models the price difference is about 40K, not to a small amout of money but defo less than a 997 GT3... Interested to hear the views of people who have oened both as I am thinking about buying a Scuderia myself..CIE560 said:
I'm in a minority but the F430 is the best looking Ferrari EVER for me.
That's not "in the minority" - that's "in the mental institute" :-PEven if you're not into the classic 70's stuff like the Daytona, Dino 246 etc, or the 80's stuff like the F40 and 288 GTO, you cannot possibly think the F430 is a better looking car than the 60's cars like the 250 GTO, 330 P4, Dino 246, 250 California, 250 Testarossa, 250 SWB etc.
Jonny
BaT
I've owned both and they are very different cars. I'd take the Scud every time. It's a far more involving car to drive and fairly comfortable when you don't feel like thrashing it thanks to the adaptive suspension which can be set in comfort mode and makes a decent fist of smoothing out the ride. The price differential is more than justified IMHO and long term these cars should hold their value fairly well as there are fewer in the UK than a lot of people imagine. Be careful on colour choice though. A lot of Scud's were bought in black and these are worth less on the used market it would appear.
I changed from and 07 430 to an 09 Scuderia and the difference in price was significantly higher. Worth ever penny in my book as the Scud is a different animal altogether. Only downside is that you reach "fairly high" speeds so quickly when you are enjoying the car that it is a danger to your license much more than the 430.
The Scud looks so much better as well. If I still had my 430 I'd be hankering after a 458, with the Scud I can't see when I will ever want to change it.
The Scud looks so much better as well. If I still had my 430 I'd be hankering after a 458, with the Scud I can't see when I will ever want to change it.
I have driven both and have owned a manual 430 spider for the last year or so. I drove the Scud a while back at my local dealer. I also own a challenge stradale so can give you input on that as well.
430 - a lovely car to own and a big improvement on the 360 both in terms of performance and useability. It is just more practical and feels much better built. Mine is a manual incidentally. The car has decent performance, depends what you are used to though. I thought it felt genuinely quick when I first drove one but as ever that has dissipated somewhat now. The one major issue I have with the 430 is the noise it makes, I think it sounds awful. So contrived. And that is because it is, it has these valves that open and shut all the time (presumably to satisfy EU legislation) and as a result it is constantly changing from open to shut, especially around town so you look like a right chopper on occasion. It is kind of a gargling sound! 360 is a big step ahead in this department. It might not bother you though? As a drivers tool it is very impressive however, could probably do with a bit of a set up as they do have quite a vague front end but when you are really on it you can use the weight transfer to ger the front end in. I drove mine cross country down to Monaco and it was a blast, I had no complaints then. I would honestly have a 360 instead though if it wasn't my main car. I prefer the looks, noise and the fact that it isn't as polished. Also better value.
Scud - incredible car and a huge leap again on from the regular 430. The gearbox is mind blowing and the acceleration through the gears (including the shift times) felt like I was actaully hanging on. The noise seemed to be better as well, with a more genuine motorsport edge to it, although those 430 gargling noises were still there to a degree. I can't comment on the handling particularly because it was a shortish test drive and the salesman was getting clammy hands. However, it is safe to say that it felt awesome. It feels light and agile which I think it is more due to the light steering but it does give you the impression of a very flingable car! I would buy a scud any day of the week, it is only really the interior that mankes it any less useable and that is really not relevant because it just bare, no less comfortable. I think at 125k (one on PH at this price) they are starting to look tempting but in another year they will most likely be even less. I think this is the car to have, it is a superb bit of kit but personally I would run a 360 at 45k (manual only for me!) for a year and pick up a scud next winter when more of the depreciation has been eaten up by someone else.
Challenge Stradale, even more raw than the scud and a noise that'll make you soil yourself. Yes it is also feels a bit numb at the front and it could do with some more torque but it is without question the most exciting Ferrari ever for that kind of money. Also nice to know that if you buy well you might even make a bit back (provided you don't run it is a commuter). I first drove one at Spa several years ago and it remains one of the best drives of my life. That was worth 90k in itself. Don't go piling into a 95-100k car, you can get a decent one for 80-90k if you do your homework. Good luck.
430 - a lovely car to own and a big improvement on the 360 both in terms of performance and useability. It is just more practical and feels much better built. Mine is a manual incidentally. The car has decent performance, depends what you are used to though. I thought it felt genuinely quick when I first drove one but as ever that has dissipated somewhat now. The one major issue I have with the 430 is the noise it makes, I think it sounds awful. So contrived. And that is because it is, it has these valves that open and shut all the time (presumably to satisfy EU legislation) and as a result it is constantly changing from open to shut, especially around town so you look like a right chopper on occasion. It is kind of a gargling sound! 360 is a big step ahead in this department. It might not bother you though? As a drivers tool it is very impressive however, could probably do with a bit of a set up as they do have quite a vague front end but when you are really on it you can use the weight transfer to ger the front end in. I drove mine cross country down to Monaco and it was a blast, I had no complaints then. I would honestly have a 360 instead though if it wasn't my main car. I prefer the looks, noise and the fact that it isn't as polished. Also better value.
Scud - incredible car and a huge leap again on from the regular 430. The gearbox is mind blowing and the acceleration through the gears (including the shift times) felt like I was actaully hanging on. The noise seemed to be better as well, with a more genuine motorsport edge to it, although those 430 gargling noises were still there to a degree. I can't comment on the handling particularly because it was a shortish test drive and the salesman was getting clammy hands. However, it is safe to say that it felt awesome. It feels light and agile which I think it is more due to the light steering but it does give you the impression of a very flingable car! I would buy a scud any day of the week, it is only really the interior that mankes it any less useable and that is really not relevant because it just bare, no less comfortable. I think at 125k (one on PH at this price) they are starting to look tempting but in another year they will most likely be even less. I think this is the car to have, it is a superb bit of kit but personally I would run a 360 at 45k (manual only for me!) for a year and pick up a scud next winter when more of the depreciation has been eaten up by someone else.
Challenge Stradale, even more raw than the scud and a noise that'll make you soil yourself. Yes it is also feels a bit numb at the front and it could do with some more torque but it is without question the most exciting Ferrari ever for that kind of money. Also nice to know that if you buy well you might even make a bit back (provided you don't run it is a commuter). I first drove one at Spa several years ago and it remains one of the best drives of my life. That was worth 90k in itself. Don't go piling into a 95-100k car, you can get a decent one for 80-90k if you do your homework. Good luck.
jonnyleroux said:
CIE560 said:
I'm in a minority but the F430 is the best looking Ferrari EVER for me.
That's not "in the minority" - that's "in the mental institute" :-PEven if you're not into the classic 70's stuff like the Daytona, Dino 246 etc, or the 80's stuff like the F40 and 288 GTO, you cannot possibly think the F430 is a better looking car than the 60's cars like the 250 GTO, 330 P4, Dino 246, 250 California, 250 Testarossa, 250 SWB etc.
Jonny
BaT
Maybe I am mental.
pistolp said:
I have driven both and have owned a manual 430 spider for the last year or so. I drove the Scud a while back at my local dealer. I also own a challenge stradale so can give you input on that as well.
430 - a lovely car to own and a big improvement on the 360 both in terms of performance and useability. It is just more practical and feels much better built. Mine is a manual incidentally. The car has decent performance, depends what you are used to though. I thought it felt genuinely quick when I first drove one but as ever that has dissipated somewhat now. The one major issue I have with the 430 is the noise it makes, I think it sounds awful. So contrived. And that is because it is, it has these valves that open and shut all the time (presumably to satisfy EU legislation) and as a result it is constantly changing from open to shut, especially around town so you look like a right chopper on occasion. It is kind of a gargling sound! 360 is a big step ahead in this department. It might not bother you though? As a drivers tool it is very impressive however, could probably do with a bit of a set up as they do have quite a vague front end but when you are really on it you can use the weight transfer to ger the front end in. I drove mine cross country down to Monaco and it was a blast, I had no complaints then. I would honestly have a 360 instead though if it wasn't my main car. I prefer the looks, noise and the fact that it isn't as polished. Also better value.
Scud - incredible car and a huge leap again on from the regular 430. The gearbox is mind blowing and the acceleration through the gears (including the shift times) felt like I was actaully hanging on. The noise seemed to be better as well, with a more genuine motorsport edge to it, although those 430 gargling noises were still there to a degree. I can't comment on the handling particularly because it was a shortish test drive and the salesman was getting clammy hands. However, it is safe to say that it felt awesome. It feels light and agile which I think it is more due to the light steering but it does give you the impression of a very flingable car! I would buy a scud any day of the week, it is only really the interior that mankes it any less useable and that is really not relevant because it just bare, no less comfortable. I think at 125k (one on PH at this price) they are starting to look tempting but in another year they will most likely be even less. I think this is the car to have, it is a superb bit of kit but personally I would run a 360 at 45k (manual only for me!) for a year and pick up a scud next winter when more of the depreciation has been eaten up by someone else.
Challenge Stradale, even more raw than the scud and a noise that'll make you soil yourself. Yes it is also feels a bit numb at the front and it could do with some more torque but it is without question the most exciting Ferrari ever for that kind of money. Also nice to know that if you buy well you might even make a bit back (provided you don't run it is a commuter). I first drove one at Spa several years ago and it remains one of the best drives of my life. That was worth 90k in itself. Don't go piling into a 95-100k car, you can get a decent one for 80-90k if you do your homework. Good luck.
Great write up, can I ask why you are considering selling your CS's as mentioned in another thread, as you appear to regard them highly.430 - a lovely car to own and a big improvement on the 360 both in terms of performance and useability. It is just more practical and feels much better built. Mine is a manual incidentally. The car has decent performance, depends what you are used to though. I thought it felt genuinely quick when I first drove one but as ever that has dissipated somewhat now. The one major issue I have with the 430 is the noise it makes, I think it sounds awful. So contrived. And that is because it is, it has these valves that open and shut all the time (presumably to satisfy EU legislation) and as a result it is constantly changing from open to shut, especially around town so you look like a right chopper on occasion. It is kind of a gargling sound! 360 is a big step ahead in this department. It might not bother you though? As a drivers tool it is very impressive however, could probably do with a bit of a set up as they do have quite a vague front end but when you are really on it you can use the weight transfer to ger the front end in. I drove mine cross country down to Monaco and it was a blast, I had no complaints then. I would honestly have a 360 instead though if it wasn't my main car. I prefer the looks, noise and the fact that it isn't as polished. Also better value.
Scud - incredible car and a huge leap again on from the regular 430. The gearbox is mind blowing and the acceleration through the gears (including the shift times) felt like I was actaully hanging on. The noise seemed to be better as well, with a more genuine motorsport edge to it, although those 430 gargling noises were still there to a degree. I can't comment on the handling particularly because it was a shortish test drive and the salesman was getting clammy hands. However, it is safe to say that it felt awesome. It feels light and agile which I think it is more due to the light steering but it does give you the impression of a very flingable car! I would buy a scud any day of the week, it is only really the interior that mankes it any less useable and that is really not relevant because it just bare, no less comfortable. I think at 125k (one on PH at this price) they are starting to look tempting but in another year they will most likely be even less. I think this is the car to have, it is a superb bit of kit but personally I would run a 360 at 45k (manual only for me!) for a year and pick up a scud next winter when more of the depreciation has been eaten up by someone else.
Challenge Stradale, even more raw than the scud and a noise that'll make you soil yourself. Yes it is also feels a bit numb at the front and it could do with some more torque but it is without question the most exciting Ferrari ever for that kind of money. Also nice to know that if you buy well you might even make a bit back (provided you don't run it is a commuter). I first drove one at Spa several years ago and it remains one of the best drives of my life. That was worth 90k in itself. Don't go piling into a 95-100k car, you can get a decent one for 80-90k if you do your homework. Good luck.
No worries, it is because those drives where they come alive happen once in a blue moon for me. I don't do enough road trips etc to take advantage of cars that need to be driven hard to be enjoyed. For me the CS isone of those cars, it is a great car all round but it really is superb at or near the limit. A car that demands alot of you as well if you are going to get the best out of it.
I do not like the gearbox at all, it feels very dated these days. Its not a complete deal breaker but it is a disappointment after the Scud etc and for me even the CSL box feels sharper, which says it all. I love the CS but I can't keep all the cars and I would like a murcie, that is a car that is an event just to get in it. The doors go up, the noise, the wonderful manual gearbox and the looks. I know the CS makes the best noise this side of Paris Hilton mid orgasm but I still feel that for what I want the murcie will be provide more thrills. The reality is that these days I want cars that are fun to be in at sensible speeds as well, the CS cries out to be ragged and on the roads that is a bit much for me. Having spent time in both I feel the murcie has more duality. That isn't to say that the CS isn't useable becasue it is, but it is a more focused track car and I find that just encourages me.
The reality is you can't use a CS at most track days either because it is too noisy so it is kind of stuck between two roles really! I also find that the racing I do is enough in terms of speed and excitement so I just really fancy a car that is slightly more ridiculous. Step forward any V12 Lambo.
I am sure I have already got this across but I love the CS and I think it is amazing for the money, especially as they are now cast iron in terms of values. I just want to mix it up a bit. It won't be easy seeing it go though.
I do not like the gearbox at all, it feels very dated these days. Its not a complete deal breaker but it is a disappointment after the Scud etc and for me even the CSL box feels sharper, which says it all. I love the CS but I can't keep all the cars and I would like a murcie, that is a car that is an event just to get in it. The doors go up, the noise, the wonderful manual gearbox and the looks. I know the CS makes the best noise this side of Paris Hilton mid orgasm but I still feel that for what I want the murcie will be provide more thrills. The reality is that these days I want cars that are fun to be in at sensible speeds as well, the CS cries out to be ragged and on the roads that is a bit much for me. Having spent time in both I feel the murcie has more duality. That isn't to say that the CS isn't useable becasue it is, but it is a more focused track car and I find that just encourages me.
The reality is you can't use a CS at most track days either because it is too noisy so it is kind of stuck between two roles really! I also find that the racing I do is enough in terms of speed and excitement so I just really fancy a car that is slightly more ridiculous. Step forward any V12 Lambo.
I am sure I have already got this across but I love the CS and I think it is amazing for the money, especially as they are now cast iron in terms of values. I just want to mix it up a bit. It won't be easy seeing it go though.
Thanks to all of you for taking the time to reply to my query - in significant detail I might add. It is very useful hearing from those who have experience with these beasties.
I am firmly on the no-compromise-driving-weapon end of the performance-comfort spectrum and there seems general agreement the Scud is worth the extra over the F430 - which is the core of what I was wanting to know, so thankyou. Guess I shall save some more pennies, though perhaps once there a few more 458s around the Scud will slide in price somewhat.
Have noticed some Scuds come with half cages but I've not seen any with full cages. Were full cages ever an option? Also I presume one can remove the radio/stereo/sat nav if one wishes?
I am firmly on the no-compromise-driving-weapon end of the performance-comfort spectrum and there seems general agreement the Scud is worth the extra over the F430 - which is the core of what I was wanting to know, so thankyou. Guess I shall save some more pennies, though perhaps once there a few more 458s around the Scud will slide in price somewhat.
Have noticed some Scuds come with half cages but I've not seen any with full cages. Were full cages ever an option? Also I presume one can remove the radio/stereo/sat nav if one wishes?
I personally don't think the cars are worth more than 125k anyway, at least not for the early ones. Alot of the cars at this end of the price range are Club Fiorano cars, which is basically a Ferrari run expererience for current and future owners. Basically the cars have been used extensively on track. I wouldn't let that put you off, the cars were designed to be driven hard. Obviously if you can find one that has been privately owned, probably preferable.
I don't think the full cage was an option, not 100% though. I don't think you need it however. I would also leave the radio etc as the weight saving is nominal and listening to yourself breathing up and down the motorway or having to talk to yourself on the way to Spa may get a little monotonous. You may even talk yourself in to selling it and you don't want that. These things are also all personal so of course it is up to you! Just my penny's worth...
Long and short is you will be a very happy bunny. I would also call someone like FF Corse and see what they have to say about set up and exhaust systems. I haven't used them myself but I am going to. Was at Silverstone the other day and saw a very sorted looking Scud (PAN1C) that had a custom exhaust and had been track set up. The exhaust (probably eye warteringkly spenny) was of particular interest as it allows you to go on most UK track days, standard you would struggle.
I don't think the full cage was an option, not 100% though. I don't think you need it however. I would also leave the radio etc as the weight saving is nominal and listening to yourself breathing up and down the motorway or having to talk to yourself on the way to Spa may get a little monotonous. You may even talk yourself in to selling it and you don't want that. These things are also all personal so of course it is up to you! Just my penny's worth...
Long and short is you will be a very happy bunny. I would also call someone like FF Corse and see what they have to say about set up and exhaust systems. I haven't used them myself but I am going to. Was at Silverstone the other day and saw a very sorted looking Scud (PAN1C) that had a custom exhaust and had been track set up. The exhaust (probably eye warteringkly spenny) was of particular interest as it allows you to go on most UK track days, standard you would struggle.
pistolp said:
I personally don't think the cars are worth more than 125k anyway, at least not for the early ones. Alot of the cars at this end of the price range are Club Fiorano cars, which is basically a Ferrari run expererience for current and future owners.
There were 8 club fiorano cars and most of those went abroad. They all had the same spec (no radio, rollbar, livery, tessuto) and only one was black. The black one is still in the UK. All of them got new ceramics, tyres and some got new clutches where they were worn. All of them had done around 6000 miles and were sold off during early 2009. You might get the odd one coming back on for sale now and then.pistolp said:
The one major issue I have with the 430 is the noise it makes, I think it sounds awful. So contrived. And that is because it is, it has these valves that open and shut all the time (presumably to satisfy EU legislation) and as a result it is constantly changing from open to shut, especially around town so you look like a right chopper on occasion. It is kind of a gargling sound! 360 is a big step ahead in this department. It might not bother you though?
This is interesting - can any other owners comment on this? Presumably fitting a Tubi exhaust might be a good plan? Or can you force the valves to stay open like you can on a Porsche (PSE) or V8 Vantage?Is the general tone a problem or is it specifically the switching between open & closed?
I imagine you can overide the valves so that they remain open, might even physically be able to wire them? I am sure you can do it. You can do it on other cars and I am again pretty sure its only even there in the first place to satisfy those nonces down at the EU.
A tubi might well deal with it as well. Its just a personal thing but unless you are gunning a 430 it just sounds pants versus a 360 or 355. The 355 on the stock exhaust is a little quiet too if you ask me. I might just be fussy
A tubi might well deal with it as well. Its just a personal thing but unless you are gunning a 430 it just sounds pants versus a 360 or 355. The 355 on the stock exhaust is a little quiet too if you ask me. I might just be fussy
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