Thinking of swapping into a F430 Spider - Some questions
Discussion
I'm currently running a 911 (996) turbo cabrio as a weekend car and may have the opportunity to chop it in for a F430 spider. I'm going to have a look at one on Saturday with a view to arranging a test drive the following week (I've only got time for a quick look this weekend) and have a few questions if I may:
It's a 2006 F1 with carbon ceramics and has done 25,000km - How long to the clutches normally last and how about the brakes?
Any idea how the front boot compares to the Porsche? The Porsche isn't great but at least has the back seats as overflow space. Is there a rear boot behind the engine? How about space between the seats and bulkhead?
How reliable are they being driven every (other) weekend and sporadically over winter? Will a monthly trip to the shops for heavy/bulky items (It'll be our only car - we really don't need one at all living in Zurich) kill the clutch/engine/anything else?
Are there any questions I need to be asking the dealer about history, condition etc?
Thanks
ian
It's a 2006 F1 with carbon ceramics and has done 25,000km - How long to the clutches normally last and how about the brakes?
Any idea how the front boot compares to the Porsche? The Porsche isn't great but at least has the back seats as overflow space. Is there a rear boot behind the engine? How about space between the seats and bulkhead?
How reliable are they being driven every (other) weekend and sporadically over winter? Will a monthly trip to the shops for heavy/bulky items (It'll be our only car - we really don't need one at all living in Zurich) kill the clutch/engine/anything else?
Are there any questions I need to be asking the dealer about history, condition etc?
Thanks
ian
There's proably some answers in this Post. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I have both..... and they are very different creatures. If you want something boring, practical etc, then keep the Porsche. For what they do, they are incredible - all the extra space with the seats, and then the 'boot' at the front. Safe, secure, bulletproof feeling.
The F430 spider is a very different creature. It feels faster, but flimsier. It makes brilliant noises, but it's just not as well crafted. Actually, I take that back slightly - it is well crafted, but the Porker feels carved out of stone, rather than crafted, no matter how well.
For driving pleasure, then there is no contest - the Ferrari every time. Even in the cold and wet it feels amazingly planted and happy. But in those conditions, the 911 will always feel happier.
For luggage - the F430's space is next to useless. I managed to find the official luggage set, that does make the best use of the size. 2x suitcases and a dress/suit bag fit, and nothing else.
For use - everyone says that they are better used more offen than not. I've never been able to pin people down as to exact times, but they are designed to be used on a daily basis.
To conclude, if I was in your shoes, then I'd get the Ferrari. As it is a 'treat yourself' car, a pleasure thing, then the Ferrari will win hands down over the Porsche. If you want to swan off to Lake Como or something, then the Ferrari wins. If you want to use it as a practical car (skis on the top and off to the piste), then the 911 is a better choice.
(Actually if I was in your shoes, I'd forget both and get a properly sorted Sagaris. It's as fast, cheaper, rarer, and takes that driving pleasure and turns the dial up to 11, with a usable space inside!)
The F430 spider is a very different creature. It feels faster, but flimsier. It makes brilliant noises, but it's just not as well crafted. Actually, I take that back slightly - it is well crafted, but the Porker feels carved out of stone, rather than crafted, no matter how well.
For driving pleasure, then there is no contest - the Ferrari every time. Even in the cold and wet it feels amazingly planted and happy. But in those conditions, the 911 will always feel happier.
For luggage - the F430's space is next to useless. I managed to find the official luggage set, that does make the best use of the size. 2x suitcases and a dress/suit bag fit, and nothing else.
For use - everyone says that they are better used more offen than not. I've never been able to pin people down as to exact times, but they are designed to be used on a daily basis.
To conclude, if I was in your shoes, then I'd get the Ferrari. As it is a 'treat yourself' car, a pleasure thing, then the Ferrari will win hands down over the Porsche. If you want to swan off to Lake Como or something, then the Ferrari wins. If you want to use it as a practical car (skis on the top and off to the piste), then the 911 is a better choice.
(Actually if I was in your shoes, I'd forget both and get a properly sorted Sagaris. It's as fast, cheaper, rarer, and takes that driving pleasure and turns the dial up to 11, with a usable space inside!)
Ian, from memory I'd say the front boot is bigger than your turbot's - a little shallower perhaps but wider and longer. Had no problems touring Italy for two weeks in the summer in my 16M. There is some space behind the seats, but no rear boot. Definately more practical than the Lambo.
I've also had no problems going down slopes into Migros car parks, and it has a reasonably good steering lock.
Not sure if they made any significant changes to the car post 06.
I've also had no problems going down slopes into Migros car parks, and it has a reasonably good steering lock.
Not sure if they made any significant changes to the car post 06.
eyebeebe said:
I'm currently running a 911 (996) turbo cabrio as a weekend car and may have the opportunity to chop it in for a F430 spider. I'm going to have a look at one on Saturday with a view to arranging a test drive the following week (I've only got time for a quick look this weekend) and have a few questions if I may:
It's a 2006 F1 with carbon ceramics and has done 25,000km - How long to the clutches normally last and how about the brakes?
Any idea how the front boot compares to the Porsche? The Porsche isn't great but at least has the back seats as overflow space. Is there a rear boot behind the engine? How about space between the seats and bulkhead?
How reliable are they being driven every (other) weekend and sporadically over winter? Will a monthly trip to the shops for heavy/bulky items (It'll be our only car - we really don't need one at all living in Zurich) kill the clutch/engine/anything else?
Are there any questions I need to be asking the dealer about history, condition etc?
Thanks
ian
Clutches are dependent on how the car is driven. It could last 30 miles it you used launch control constantly or it could last 20k if driven properly. As the dealer for a readout of clutch wear. They just plug the car into a computer and they should be able to tell you how much percentage the clutch has left.It's a 2006 F1 with carbon ceramics and has done 25,000km - How long to the clutches normally last and how about the brakes?
Any idea how the front boot compares to the Porsche? The Porsche isn't great but at least has the back seats as overflow space. Is there a rear boot behind the engine? How about space between the seats and bulkhead?
How reliable are they being driven every (other) weekend and sporadically over winter? Will a monthly trip to the shops for heavy/bulky items (It'll be our only car - we really don't need one at all living in Zurich) kill the clutch/engine/anything else?
Are there any questions I need to be asking the dealer about history, condition etc?
Thanks
ian
The boot in the 430 is actually pretty god for the type of car, maybe 1 and a half to 2 times bigger than the 911s. There is a bit of room behind the seats but not a lot, depends how tall you are really.
The car should be ok driven every other weekend, just make sure you get a battery conditioner otherwise the battery will go flat.
Just make sure and ask the dealer about the clutch because you could be speaking about £2k for a new one. Also, make sure the car has a full service history.
Hope that helps
lambo_xx said:
Clutches are dependent on how the car is driven. It could last 30 miles it you used launch control constantly or it could last 20k if driven properly.
Just to add some context I recently got a clutch wear reading when my car was in for service, 19000 miles and 33% clutch wear.John.
andrew said:
diablo_pete said:
andrew said:
AndrewD said:
Ian, from memory I'd say the front boot is bigger than your turbot's - a little shallower perhaps but wider and longer.
sounds fishy to me Don1 said:
I have both..... and they are very different creatures. If you want something boring, practical etc, then keep the Porsche. For what they do, they are incredible - all the extra space with the seats, and then the 'boot' at the front. Safe, secure, bulletproof feeling.
The F430 spider is a very different creature. It feels faster, but flimsier. It makes brilliant noises, but it's just not as well crafted. Actually, I take that back slightly - it is well crafted, but the Porker feels carved out of stone, rather than crafted, no matter how well.
For driving pleasure, then there is no contest - the Ferrari every time. Even in the cold and wet it feels amazingly planted and happy. But in those conditions, the 911 will always feel happier.
For luggage - the F430's space is next to useless. I managed to find the official luggage set, that does make the best use of the size. 2x suitcases and a dress/suit bag fit, and nothing else.
For use - everyone says that they are better used more offen than not. I've never been able to pin people down as to exact times, but they are designed to be used on a daily basis.
To conclude, if I was in your shoes, then I'd get the Ferrari. As it is a 'treat yourself' car, a pleasure thing, then the Ferrari will win hands down over the Porsche. If you want to swan off to Lake Como or something, then the Ferrari wins. If you want to use it as a practical car (skis on the top and off to the piste), then the 911 is a better choice.
(Actually if I was in your shoes, I'd forget both and get a properly sorted Sagaris. It's as fast, cheaper, rarer, and takes that driving pleasure and turns the dial up to 11, with a usable space inside!)
Thanks Don. I'm not sure if you can get skis on top of a cabrio though! I was looking at Tivs before we moved to Switzerland and would still love one, but finding a LHD version at a reasonable price is impossible and finding someone to maintain them almost as hard.The F430 spider is a very different creature. It feels faster, but flimsier. It makes brilliant noises, but it's just not as well crafted. Actually, I take that back slightly - it is well crafted, but the Porker feels carved out of stone, rather than crafted, no matter how well.
For driving pleasure, then there is no contest - the Ferrari every time. Even in the cold and wet it feels amazingly planted and happy. But in those conditions, the 911 will always feel happier.
For luggage - the F430's space is next to useless. I managed to find the official luggage set, that does make the best use of the size. 2x suitcases and a dress/suit bag fit, and nothing else.
For use - everyone says that they are better used more offen than not. I've never been able to pin people down as to exact times, but they are designed to be used on a daily basis.
To conclude, if I was in your shoes, then I'd get the Ferrari. As it is a 'treat yourself' car, a pleasure thing, then the Ferrari will win hands down over the Porsche. If you want to swan off to Lake Como or something, then the Ferrari wins. If you want to use it as a practical car (skis on the top and off to the piste), then the 911 is a better choice.
(Actually if I was in your shoes, I'd forget both and get a properly sorted Sagaris. It's as fast, cheaper, rarer, and takes that driving pleasure and turns the dial up to 11, with a usable space inside!)
AndrewD said:
Ian, from memory I'd say the front boot is bigger than your turbot's - a little shallower perhaps but wider and longer. Had no problems touring Italy for two weeks in the summer in my 16M. There is some space behind the seats, but no rear boot. Definately more practical than the Lambo.
I've also had no problems going down slopes into Migros car parks, and it has a reasonably good steering lock.
Not sure if they made any significant changes to the car post 06.
I'll have to take some luggage with me I've also had no problems going down slopes into Migros car parks, and it has a reasonably good steering lock.
Not sure if they made any significant changes to the car post 06.
One of our flight cases fits perfectly in the Porsche, I'm not sure if it will fit into a shallower boot. Did Sudan tell you how long the ceramics should last? Btw Bev has banned me from talking to you. Apparently you are a bad influence!lambo_xx said:
Clutches are dependent on how the car is driven. It could last 30 miles it you used launch control constantly or it could last 20k if driven properly. As the dealer for a readout of clutch wear. They just plug the car into a computer and they should be able to tell you how much percentage the clutch has left.
The boot in the 430 is actually pretty god for the type of car, maybe 1 and a half to 2 times bigger than the 911s. There is a bit of room behind the seats but not a lot, depends how tall you are really.
The car should be ok driven every other weekend, just make sure you get a battery conditioner otherwise the battery will go flat.
Just make sure and ask the dealer about the clutch because you could be speaking about £2k for a new one. Also, make sure the car has a full service history.
Hope that helps
Really helpful thanks for the advice regarding the clutch. I didn't even know it had launch control.The boot in the 430 is actually pretty god for the type of car, maybe 1 and a half to 2 times bigger than the 911s. There is a bit of room behind the seats but not a lot, depends how tall you are really.
The car should be ok driven every other weekend, just make sure you get a battery conditioner otherwise the battery will go flat.
Just make sure and ask the dealer about the clutch because you could be speaking about £2k for a new one. Also, make sure the car has a full service history.
Hope that helps
steelej said:
lambo_xx said:
Clutches are dependent on how the car is driven. It could last 30 miles it you used launch control constantly or it could last 20k if driven properly.
Just to add some context I recently got a clutch wear reading when my car was in for service, 19000 miles and 33% clutch wear.John.
Edited by eyebeebe on Friday 10th December 11:06
Edited by eyebeebe on Friday 10th December 16:46
eyebeebe said:
Thanks John - Quite interesting to see the discrepancy between the two posts. I can live with a 50,000 mile clutch life, whereas 20,000 is a bit of a concern, given the car has done around 16,000 miles and I would plan to put 7-10,000 on it a year.
As Lambo_xx said clutch wear really depends on how the car is driven, I've got my own set of rules for maximising the F1 clutch that seems to be working for me, I've listed them below.Edited by eyebeebe on Friday 10th December 11:06
- Drive in sport or race mode, snow and wet modes slip the clutch more. 3% of my clutch wear was in the first 1000miles of ownership using wet mode. 9% in 11k miles using sport or race mode.
- When reversing, blip to get momentum, don't ride the pedal. Avoid reversing uphill
- Nice smooth getaway when moving off, allow the clutch to fully engage without too many revs
- Flip to N when coming to a stop at a light, I don't go down the gears, I just go straight to N from the gear I'm in.
- When in slow moving traffic, allow some space in front so clutch can fully engage.
- Don't use Launch control
John.
Don1 said:
I have both..... and they are very different creatures. If you want something boring, practical etc, then keep the Porsche. For what they do, they are incredible - all the extra space with the seats, and then the 'boot' at the front. Safe, secure, bulletproof feeling.
The F430 spider is a very different creature. It feels faster, but flimsier. It makes brilliant noises, but it's just not as well crafted. Actually, I take that back slightly - it is well crafted, but the Porker feels carved out of stone, rather than crafted, no matter how well.
For driving pleasure, then there is no contest - the Ferrari every time. Even in the cold and wet it feels amazingly planted and happy. But in those conditions, the 911 will always feel happier.
For luggage - the F430's space is next to useless. I managed to find the official luggage set, that does make the best use of the size. 2x suitcases and a dress/suit bag fit, and nothing else.
For use - everyone says that they are better used more offen than not. I've never been able to pin people down as to exact times, but they are designed to be used on a daily basis.
To conclude, if I was in your shoes, then I'd get the Ferrari. As it is a 'treat yourself' car, a pleasure thing, then the Ferrari will win hands down over the Porsche. If you want to swan off to Lake Como or something, then the Ferrari wins. If you want to use it as a practical car (skis on the top and off to the piste), then the 911 is a better choice.
(Actually if I was in your shoes, I'd forget both and get a properly sorted Sagaris. It's as fast, cheaper, rarer, and takes that driving pleasure and turns the dial up to 11, with a usable space inside!)
Just been reading your Sagaris post... it reminded me of when I first went to drive my T350, it was like me reading something of a past memory. I remembered the excitment, the nervousness of driving her for the first time, the worry about stalling etc...The F430 spider is a very different creature. It feels faster, but flimsier. It makes brilliant noises, but it's just not as well crafted. Actually, I take that back slightly - it is well crafted, but the Porker feels carved out of stone, rather than crafted, no matter how well.
For driving pleasure, then there is no contest - the Ferrari every time. Even in the cold and wet it feels amazingly planted and happy. But in those conditions, the 911 will always feel happier.
For luggage - the F430's space is next to useless. I managed to find the official luggage set, that does make the best use of the size. 2x suitcases and a dress/suit bag fit, and nothing else.
For use - everyone says that they are better used more offen than not. I've never been able to pin people down as to exact times, but they are designed to be used on a daily basis.
To conclude, if I was in your shoes, then I'd get the Ferrari. As it is a 'treat yourself' car, a pleasure thing, then the Ferrari will win hands down over the Porsche. If you want to swan off to Lake Como or something, then the Ferrari wins. If you want to use it as a practical car (skis on the top and off to the piste), then the 911 is a better choice.
(Actually if I was in your shoes, I'd forget both and get a properly sorted Sagaris. It's as fast, cheaper, rarer, and takes that driving pleasure and turns the dial up to 11, with a usable space inside!)
Oh man, makes me just want to take her out for a drive now - great write-up
Sorry Ferrari owners/OP, as you were...
Don1 said:
I have both.....
The F430 spider is a very different creature. It feels faster, but flimsier. It makes brilliant noises, but it's just not as well crafted. Actually, I take that back slightly - it is well crafted, but the Porker feels carved out of stone, rather than crafted, no matter how well!
I have both as well and disagree. I think the Ferrari feels much stronger and more well crafted than the Porsche. The F430 spider is a very different creature. It feels faster, but flimsier. It makes brilliant noises, but it's just not as well crafted. Actually, I take that back slightly - it is well crafted, but the Porker feels carved out of stone, rather than crafted, no matter how well!
My 996tt has been far from bullet proof! lots of niggles and problems that I was just not expecting.
where as the Ferrari has taken everything I have thrown at it with ease.
I also disagree about luggage space. Ferrari has decent boot and there is lots of space between the seats and behind them.
To the OP... get the Ferrari. SO SO SO special. I am 10000% in love with mine still.
I only bought it for a pose and the experience. Didnt realise what a fantastic drivers car it is and how great the ownership experience has been so far.
Edited by Porkie on Friday 10th December 15:48
Whitean3 said:
Hmm, Ian- going over to the dark side are you?! You've definitely been hanging around AndrewD too much!
Don't forget to post pics if you take the plunge!
All the best,
Andrew
Not sure yet Andrew. I had one of those what if moments when looking through Autoscout and saw a competitively priced one, did some sums and they came out well enough for me to investigate further. Pics will be posted here if I get it and also on Englishforum to wind the tree huggers up a bit more. Have a look on Autoscout in the meantime if you are interested. It's the cheapest one, I think because it's a bit of a marmite colour combo: It's Tour de France blue with a Rosso interior. I'm not sure if it will be a bit much tbh, hence going for a first look and everyone says your first Ferrari should be red, they just didn't say inside or out Don't forget to post pics if you take the plunge!
All the best,
Andrew
steelej said:
As Lambo_xx said clutch wear really depends on how the car is driven, I've got my own set of rules for maximising the F1 clutch that seems to be working for me, I've listed them below.
- Drive in sport or race mode, snow and wet modes slip the clutch more. 3% of my clutch wear was in the first 1000miles of ownership using wet mode. 9% in 11k miles using sport or race mode.
- When reversing, blip to get momentum, don't ride the pedal. Avoid reversing uphill
- Nice smooth getaway when moving off, allow the clutch to fully engage without too many revs
- Flip to N when coming to a stop at a light, I don't go down the gears, I just go straight to N from the gear I'm in.
- When in slow moving traffic, allow some space in front so clutch can fully engage.
- Don't use Launch control
John.
All seems reasonable. I can't see it getting too much use if there is snow on the ground! Thanks John.- Drive in sport or race mode, snow and wet modes slip the clutch more. 3% of my clutch wear was in the first 1000miles of ownership using wet mode. 9% in 11k miles using sport or race mode.
- When reversing, blip to get momentum, don't ride the pedal. Avoid reversing uphill
- Nice smooth getaway when moving off, allow the clutch to fully engage without too many revs
- Flip to N when coming to a stop at a light, I don't go down the gears, I just go straight to N from the gear I'm in.
- When in slow moving traffic, allow some space in front so clutch can fully engage.
- Don't use Launch control
John.
Porkie said:
I have both as well and disagree. I think the Ferrari feels much stronger and more well crafted than the Porsche.
My 996tt has been far from bullet proof! lots of niggles and problems that I was just not expecting.
where as the Ferrari has taken everything I have thrown at it with ease.
I also disagree about luggage space. Ferrari has decent boot and there is lots of space between the seats and behind them.
To the OP... get the Ferrari. SO SO SO special. I am 10000% in love with mine still.
I only bought it for a pose and the experience. Didnt realise what a fantastic drivers car it is and how great the ownership experience has been so far.
Thanks. Probably the post my girlfriend didn't want me to read! Slightly worried about what I would aim for next though if I get the Ferrari!My 996tt has been far from bullet proof! lots of niggles and problems that I was just not expecting.
where as the Ferrari has taken everything I have thrown at it with ease.
I also disagree about luggage space. Ferrari has decent boot and there is lots of space between the seats and behind them.
To the OP... get the Ferrari. SO SO SO special. I am 10000% in love with mine still.
I only bought it for a pose and the experience. Didnt realise what a fantastic drivers car it is and how great the ownership experience has been so far.
Edited by Porkie on Friday 10th December 15:48
I went and viewed it today (and did it exclusively in German, which I'm quite proud of, but I'm worried I may have misinterpreted things). Thoughts:
I really like the colour scheme, but appreciate others won't. The interior is nowhere near as bright as the photos I'd seen. The dealer supplied the car originally and apparently the owner deliberated for months on whether to go for it or not.
The car felt solid enough when I opened the door and sat in it.
The boot is a lot bigger than the Porsche's in every dimension, but clearly there is a lot less space behind the seats.
The dealer will get the clutch reading for me, but doesn't have it yet.
It has a full service history and will have an annual service before being sold. Interestingly the services prices aren't significantly different to the Porsche.
The ceramics can get cooked in a day of hard use but equally can last 100,000km. Of all the cars he's sold he hasn't had any customers come back to have them replaced.
It comes with a battery conditioner.
It has a Tubi exhaust fitted. I may have misunderstood, but I think he said that there is a switch behind the drivers seat that will open or close a flap in the exhaust, dependant upon whether you want loud or very loud. Is this correct? Does the Tubi give any power gains or is it just noise?
Now the bad bit. It seems like the car has been tracked a reasonable amount and the previous owner has an off at Ascari. The chassis is fine but from what I understood most of the right hand side panels needed replacing. Legally here if it has chassis damage it needs to be registered and additionally Ferrari wouldn't give an approved used warranty if it had chassis damage or had been raced, but the dealer tells me the warranty won't be a problem. That puts my mind at ease a little, but should I be concerned? I will find out where it was repaired and exactly was done. I also like the fact the dealer volunteered the information about it, before I had got to that question on my list.
Assuming the weather is reasonable, I'll be going for a test drive next weekend
I really like the colour scheme, but appreciate others won't. The interior is nowhere near as bright as the photos I'd seen. The dealer supplied the car originally and apparently the owner deliberated for months on whether to go for it or not.
The car felt solid enough when I opened the door and sat in it.
The boot is a lot bigger than the Porsche's in every dimension, but clearly there is a lot less space behind the seats.
The dealer will get the clutch reading for me, but doesn't have it yet.
It has a full service history and will have an annual service before being sold. Interestingly the services prices aren't significantly different to the Porsche.
The ceramics can get cooked in a day of hard use but equally can last 100,000km. Of all the cars he's sold he hasn't had any customers come back to have them replaced.
It comes with a battery conditioner.
It has a Tubi exhaust fitted. I may have misunderstood, but I think he said that there is a switch behind the drivers seat that will open or close a flap in the exhaust, dependant upon whether you want loud or very loud. Is this correct? Does the Tubi give any power gains or is it just noise?
Now the bad bit. It seems like the car has been tracked a reasonable amount and the previous owner has an off at Ascari. The chassis is fine but from what I understood most of the right hand side panels needed replacing. Legally here if it has chassis damage it needs to be registered and additionally Ferrari wouldn't give an approved used warranty if it had chassis damage or had been raced, but the dealer tells me the warranty won't be a problem. That puts my mind at ease a little, but should I be concerned? I will find out where it was repaired and exactly was done. I also like the fact the dealer volunteered the information about it, before I had got to that question on my list.
Assuming the weather is reasonable, I'll be going for a test drive next weekend
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