Future Beckton meets > please read
Discussion
During the Beckton meet today, I was approached by the Gallions Reach security guards and was asked to meet Tony who is head of operations at the site.
There's good news and bad news.
First the bad news. We need to give advance warning of any meet that we decide to hold there. We'll also have to pay £20 for the use of the car park, even though most of us spend money there doing the shopping etc. I had to pay £20 today so that we could stay where we were. there is also a restriction on filming as well.
There also needs to be a contract between us and Gallions Reach. However, "Us" are just a bunch of petrolheads and not a club. on this occasion i signed the document on behalf of my company as it's not worth much and has limited liability.
The good news is that they are willing to give us a section of the car park on the other side of the tesco petrol station. It can hold up to 100 cars and we can take pictures/videos, plus can spend as long as we like there. although there are certain conditions:
- No unsociable behaviour
- No skidding or sliding cars around
- All cars MUST have insurance (yep..you read that correctly)
- we must notify them in advance
- we leave teh are as we find it
- we still have to pay £20
they will also clean up the parking area for us as well.
To be fair, Tony was quite good about it, but he has to make sure the owners of the site don't get annoyed. If we decide to carry on meeting there, then I have to put a written request/proposal to them to show how much of a benefit the meets would be for them.
So I guess we have two options.
we can either find another venue to meet up, or pay the £20 and meet up in our own allocated parking area.
My personal opinion is to stay at beckton and have a whip round to get the £20. Still works out cheaper than going to Virgina Water and paying the car parking fee. I will of course try and get us free entry, but worse case is £20.
The biggest problem is who to make out the contracts with. I'll try and figure something out on that one.
So what does everyone think?
PS. Esprits with no door handles are NOT allowed in the car park due to health and safety regulations.
There's good news and bad news.
First the bad news. We need to give advance warning of any meet that we decide to hold there. We'll also have to pay £20 for the use of the car park, even though most of us spend money there doing the shopping etc. I had to pay £20 today so that we could stay where we were. there is also a restriction on filming as well.
There also needs to be a contract between us and Gallions Reach. However, "Us" are just a bunch of petrolheads and not a club. on this occasion i signed the document on behalf of my company as it's not worth much and has limited liability.
The good news is that they are willing to give us a section of the car park on the other side of the tesco petrol station. It can hold up to 100 cars and we can take pictures/videos, plus can spend as long as we like there. although there are certain conditions:
- No unsociable behaviour
- No skidding or sliding cars around
- All cars MUST have insurance (yep..you read that correctly)
- we must notify them in advance
- we leave teh are as we find it
- we still have to pay £20
they will also clean up the parking area for us as well.
To be fair, Tony was quite good about it, but he has to make sure the owners of the site don't get annoyed. If we decide to carry on meeting there, then I have to put a written request/proposal to them to show how much of a benefit the meets would be for them.
So I guess we have two options.
we can either find another venue to meet up, or pay the £20 and meet up in our own allocated parking area.
My personal opinion is to stay at beckton and have a whip round to get the £20. Still works out cheaper than going to Virgina Water and paying the car parking fee. I will of course try and get us free entry, but worse case is £20.
The biggest problem is who to make out the contracts with. I'll try and figure something out on that one.
So what does everyone think?
PS. Esprits with no door handles are NOT allowed in the car park due to health and safety regulations.
Edited by angelis on Monday 11th December 00:04
Pssht!
In that case I think we should move elsewhere! :-P
Seriously though... Public Liability and all that - we are just a bunch of friends meeting up, once things start getting signed etc someone becomes 'liable' ...IMHO I don't think that's reasonable to land on anyone's shoulders.
My ball goes in the "Move Elsewhere" bag. (I shall give alternatives some thought, rather than simply nay-saying and offering no suggestions)
In that case I think we should move elsewhere! :-P
Seriously though... Public Liability and all that - we are just a bunch of friends meeting up, once things start getting signed etc someone becomes 'liable' ...IMHO I don't think that's reasonable to land on anyone's shoulders.
My ball goes in the "Move Elsewhere" bag. (I shall give alternatives some thought, rather than simply nay-saying and offering no suggestions)
intersting,
when they say insurance, are they talking about our normal road policies or something specific to the meet?
the £20 is not an issue, especially if we get the benefit of our own space to meet in, but will there be any liability attached to us if we make a contract with them?
when they say insurance, are they talking about our normal road policies or something specific to the meet?
the £20 is not an issue, especially if we get the benefit of our own space to meet in, but will there be any liability attached to us if we make a contract with them?
Harsh said:
intersting,
when they say insurance, are they talking about our normal road policies or something specific to the meet?
the £20 is not an issue, especially if we get the benefit of our own space to meet in, but will there be any liability attached to us if we make a contract with them?
when they say insurance, are they talking about our normal road policies or something specific to the meet?
the £20 is not an issue, especially if we get the benefit of our own space to meet in, but will there be any liability attached to us if we make a contract with them?
The insurance is the owners car insurance. ie: everyone must have an up to date insurance policy.
Load of tosh isn't it?
If we go elsewhere, say Lakeside or Bluewater, aren't we going to get the same grief from security guys. I am keen on Beckton because I live there so its convenient but am happy to meet elsewhere if need be. I don't mind chipping in if we have to pay but its a bloody cheek when you consider that I park there and do my shopping at Tesco's every week for free!!
In October I went on a London run with three combined mr2 clubs (40 cars), we all finished parked at Surrey Quays and had no problems at all, so maybe there is an option.
If we go elsewhere, say Lakeside or Bluewater, aren't we going to get the same grief from security guys. I am keen on Beckton because I live there so its convenient but am happy to meet elsewhere if need be. I don't mind chipping in if we have to pay but its a bloody cheek when you consider that I park there and do my shopping at Tesco's every week for free!!
In October I went on a London run with three combined mr2 clubs (40 cars), we all finished parked at Surrey Quays and had no problems at all, so maybe there is an option.
£20 'for the use of the car park'... What's that - round of beers for the security guards? I've parked there many times and met people in the car park too - does that mean I have to pay £20 and sign a 'liability contract'?!
Did you get a receipt for the £20; if so, is it from the security company or the landlord?
I've invested, built and been a non-exec director in many retail shopping centres and I've never heard of anything like this?! If people were hooning around the car park, blocking lanes, etc, then they have the right to ask you to leave, but if you were just standing around chatting then they should mind there own f
ing business!
As you can guess, my vote would be for a new venue!
(apologies for missing Sunday - sounds like it was a good'un! My business trip return was delayed
)
Edited to add: the insurance thing is also bollox - the only people who have the right to inspect your insurance are the DVLA and BiB...
Did you get a receipt for the £20; if so, is it from the security company or the landlord?
I've invested, built and been a non-exec director in many retail shopping centres and I've never heard of anything like this?! If people were hooning around the car park, blocking lanes, etc, then they have the right to ask you to leave, but if you were just standing around chatting then they should mind there own f
ing business! As you can guess, my vote would be for a new venue!
(apologies for missing Sunday - sounds like it was a good'un! My business trip return was delayed
) Edited to add: the insurance thing is also bollox - the only people who have the right to inspect your insurance are the DVLA and BiB...
Edited by john_r on Tuesday 12th December 15:54
Hi guys... I posted in the other Beckton 'thread' the following:
....having thought some more, and also having read John r's comments above, I agree...
I really do think they were taking the pi55... originally having spoken to his boss, the security 'guard' (I use that word lightly) on the ground said it was ok.... then half an hour later Angelis is summoned to the office to have a 'chat' and be relieved of £20 lighter....
I can imagine the conversation
Security guard: "...so boss, a bunch of guys with really really nice cars are congregating in the car park, there's ferrari's and everyfink....."
Boss: "leave it to me.. there's a drink in it for us..!!"
ok, nuff said - let's just make sure we meet regularly... anybody know any good venues
johnnyboy225 said:
Guys,
On the venue - I'm on the fence - the present location is ok, convenient (lots of shops, coffee etc). There again, there may be better venues nearby... I think they were taking the pi55 to charge £20 yesterday (bet it went to the guy's xmas booze fund), although on the other having a dedicated parking area could be good..
As to frequency - I'd be up for a regular (even monthly) meet, although perhaps quarterly or every other month....
On the venue - I'm on the fence - the present location is ok, convenient (lots of shops, coffee etc). There again, there may be better venues nearby... I think they were taking the pi55 to charge £20 yesterday (bet it went to the guy's xmas booze fund), although on the other having a dedicated parking area could be good..
As to frequency - I'd be up for a regular (even monthly) meet, although perhaps quarterly or every other month....
....having thought some more, and also having read John r's comments above, I agree... I really do think they were taking the pi55... originally having spoken to his boss, the security 'guard' (I use that word lightly) on the ground said it was ok.... then half an hour later Angelis is summoned to the office to have a 'chat' and be relieved of £20 lighter....
I can imagine the conversation
Security guard: "...so boss, a bunch of guys with really really nice cars are congregating in the car park, there's ferrari's and everyfink....."
Boss: "leave it to me.. there's a drink in it for us..!!"
ok, nuff said - let's just make sure we meet regularly... anybody know any good venues
john_r said:
Edited to add: the insurance thing is also bollox - the only people who have the right to inspect your insurance are the DVLA and BiB...
Private property - they can make it a 'condition of contract' as it were...
My biggest concern is that it makes it all FAR too official and really does expose Angelis to all manner of Pulic Liability and legal issues.
That's not fair by anyone's standard!
We will find somewhere else I'm sure
(What about the other car park just up the way where the October TR met?!)
that wasnt really a car park robin,
it was the frontage of an office complex and if i remember correctly, the security guards were none too friendly!!
as i said before, the £20 isnt the issue, i'm sure evryone agrees with that.
it's a case of what sort of risk/liability we are running.
because it's private property we cant just tell them where to go and park anyway, however i'm rather intrigued by the £20 thing, thats not even close to being enough to make it worth them doing something official, so what would happen if we approached the complex directly, and went over the head of the bloke angelis spoke to?
if he's just putting the £20 in his pocket then they would be very interested to know the details, not to mention why a group of fairly well healed responsible sports car owners decided against providing an attraction to their complex on a monthly basis.
the amount of people that came up to us, took pictures, showed their kids.....if we met there once a month with ever more exotic machinery which shopping area would people choose in the area?
it was the frontage of an office complex and if i remember correctly, the security guards were none too friendly!!
as i said before, the £20 isnt the issue, i'm sure evryone agrees with that.
it's a case of what sort of risk/liability we are running.
because it's private property we cant just tell them where to go and park anyway, however i'm rather intrigued by the £20 thing, thats not even close to being enough to make it worth them doing something official, so what would happen if we approached the complex directly, and went over the head of the bloke angelis spoke to?
if he's just putting the £20 in his pocket then they would be very interested to know the details, not to mention why a group of fairly well healed responsible sports car owners decided against providing an attraction to their complex on a monthly basis.
the amount of people that came up to us, took pictures, showed their kids.....if we met there once a month with ever more exotic machinery which shopping area would people choose in the area?
Just to confirm, I did get a receipt for the £20, albeit written on a compliment slip.
According to the operations manager, it's a nominal sum to appease the Landlords who are a large financial institution. At the end of the day, he's really only watching his back.
To be fair, he has given us our own separate parking area (for up to 100 cars), plus will clean it up for us before any meet up we do.
The only issue really is the liability, although the liability is only in the contract to be signed. It has no relevance outside of the contract.
Worse case scenario I can sign under my Ltd company as I'd really only be responsible for damage to the aprking area. But then that would be covered by the car insurance would'nt it.
According to the operations manager, it's a nominal sum to appease the Landlords who are a large financial institution. At the end of the day, he's really only watching his back.
To be fair, he has given us our own separate parking area (for up to 100 cars), plus will clean it up for us before any meet up we do.
The only issue really is the liability, although the liability is only in the contract to be signed. It has no relevance outside of the contract.
Worse case scenario I can sign under my Ltd company as I'd really only be responsible for damage to the aprking area. But then that would be covered by the car insurance would'nt it.
They are taking the P!55. I would be contacting the retail park head office to find out what happened to the £20...... (local pub coffers is my guess). Is there any reason we (I know I haven't made one yet!) cant meet on this road just round the corner:
www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=544099&y=181067&z=1&sv=544099,181067&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf
I know for a fact its very quiet as its not a main road, and its dual carriageway - plenty of room for all to park up.
www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=544099&y=181067&z=1&sv=544099,181067&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf
I know for a fact its very quiet as its not a main road, and its dual carriageway - plenty of room for all to park up.
Harsh - you're thinking of the finishing point for the Tunnopoly Run...
There was a 'short notice' meet that met in virtually the same Retail Park as Sunday - further up the A1020, nearer the A13...
***************************************
The public liability and other legal issues I'm referring to don't just pertain directly to the meet itself...
There are all amnner of laws that cover congregation, driving in convoy and all manner of other things. We have discussed this at length in the past on the Lotus Esprit Forum and for our largest meet, the organiser bought an off the shelf Limited liability company and organised everything in the name of the company in order to indemnify himself legally against any 'worst case scenarios'
It will be impossible if there is a problem (say on a run) to then argue that we're nothing but a bunch of mates when only 10 minutes previously we had paid up and signed a contract (of sorts) as an 'organised event'.
It is this sort of thing that brought an end to the old "Fish and Chip" runs that a lot of people refer to.
It has also been discussed at great length on SELOC.
Basically....
No contracts... No exchange of monies... Noone who could be legally considered liable.
We have to keep this as much an 'informal meeting of mates' as humanly possible or Angelis could be potentially exposing himself to great legal liability beyond the scope of the simple meet point.
Just purely by way of example, say we drove somewhere and there was an accident between participants or worse still, say a pedestrian was hit, then if an insurer found out what was goin on, Angelis could be deemed liable as an "event Organiser".
For as long as this is completely 100% informal, non-contracted and we're / he's not signing something as an official car club then he will be fine!
There was a 'short notice' meet that met in virtually the same Retail Park as Sunday - further up the A1020, nearer the A13...
***************************************
The public liability and other legal issues I'm referring to don't just pertain directly to the meet itself...
There are all amnner of laws that cover congregation, driving in convoy and all manner of other things. We have discussed this at length in the past on the Lotus Esprit Forum and for our largest meet, the organiser bought an off the shelf Limited liability company and organised everything in the name of the company in order to indemnify himself legally against any 'worst case scenarios'
It will be impossible if there is a problem (say on a run) to then argue that we're nothing but a bunch of mates when only 10 minutes previously we had paid up and signed a contract (of sorts) as an 'organised event'.
It is this sort of thing that brought an end to the old "Fish and Chip" runs that a lot of people refer to.
It has also been discussed at great length on SELOC.
Basically....
No contracts... No exchange of monies... Noone who could be legally considered liable.
We have to keep this as much an 'informal meeting of mates' as humanly possible or Angelis could be potentially exposing himself to great legal liability beyond the scope of the simple meet point.
Just purely by way of example, say we drove somewhere and there was an accident between participants or worse still, say a pedestrian was hit, then if an insurer found out what was goin on, Angelis could be deemed liable as an "event Organiser".
For as long as this is completely 100% informal, non-contracted and we're / he's not signing something as an official car club then he will be fine!
i agree with dr fish
these meets should be informal and not seem like organised , we could just be all a bunch of friends with cars meeting up...
i say move somewhere else if the gallion place things we are in some kind of club or something
and the next meeting place..dont tell the security staff anything...! i am not paying 20£ to some security guard for parking in a public car park thats free to everyone else!
i say meet some place else , dont tell anyone else what we are up to..dont pay any money and if anyone asks what we are up to just say we are a bunch of mates from the sports club
why dont we meet a clacketts or virginia waters? at VW the car park is free i think for the first 2 hours or something..and at clacketts nobody cares what you do
Edited by k321 on Saturday 23 December 14:43
Once you start handing over money were does it end? I came to a meet in the Summer, but I could have easily come and shopped there and parked my car next to your's.
Out of order, it's a free country and I'll park my car in any car park unless told otherwise and then I'll not come back.
Out of order, it's a free country and I'll park my car in any car park unless told otherwise and then I'll not come back.
Ok guys I've gone back and fished it out (no puns please :P ) Here is the location post from the short notice tunnel run a couple of months back...
"Sorry forgot to mention that if we do go for this then
the start point will be at Sainsburys Savacenter over in
Beckton at 10:30 for a nice sprited drive into town...."
(Marked as Beckton Retial Park)
www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?cl
Basically it's right by the A Road and is an unconnected development. (So we ought not to encounter the same people) and it keeps it in the same area and hence the same meet...
Thoughts?
Here's a Googlemap link just in case the one above doesn't work...
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&
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