Replacing copper fuel pipe with braided lines?
Discussion
Is this recommended? I need to get it done asap. The 3 fuel lines are very cramped, and access is restricted by the suspension, arms, and tank, so in this circumstance I figured braided hose lines would be easier to work with. I am replacing due to corrosion.
Your thoughts?
(Car is a Nissan Skyline, the pipes run from the o/s fuel pump (parcel shelf area), runs through the back of the wheel arch and tucks in behind the tank, if any of this information is relevant). I plan to get 3 of these- http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Performance/Fuel_Sys...
Put in engines and drive train as I couldn't see a more suitable section.
Your thoughts?
(Car is a Nissan Skyline, the pipes run from the o/s fuel pump (parcel shelf area), runs through the back of the wheel arch and tucks in behind the tank, if any of this information is relevant). I plan to get 3 of these- http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Performance/Fuel_Sys...
Put in engines and drive train as I couldn't see a more suitable section.
I got around the fuel line runs problem when I did my MK4 Escort van / RS Turbo hybrid by using Gates rubber hosing. You can get a 20 meter reel for about £30 with VAT and delivery which is MOT legal as long as you use 'P' clips and route it securely. Just make sure you don't crimp the pipe and it will allow the fuel to run as like it's a solid pipe.
Can of worms, this.
Some say that braided hose is bad because you can't tell if it's perished. Others that braided is better than plain rubber because it's abrasion resistant. Others will say that hard lines are best, but then you'll read about them fracturing through vibration or chafing away.
In my readings, I've come across examples of failure in all types. BUT most of the stories of braided hose failing seemed to be "mate of a mate" stories rather than first hand experience (though I stand to be enlightened
).
For that reason, I've used Aeroquip AQP throughout my kit car build, rather than copper with rubber joining pieces. Is it the right choice? Who knows. I expect that all ways are ok, most of the time.
Some say that braided hose is bad because you can't tell if it's perished. Others that braided is better than plain rubber because it's abrasion resistant. Others will say that hard lines are best, but then you'll read about them fracturing through vibration or chafing away.
In my readings, I've come across examples of failure in all types. BUT most of the stories of braided hose failing seemed to be "mate of a mate" stories rather than first hand experience (though I stand to be enlightened
).For that reason, I've used Aeroquip AQP throughout my kit car build, rather than copper with rubber joining pieces. Is it the right choice? Who knows. I expect that all ways are ok, most of the time.
Depends what you mean by braided lines.
If the fuel lines are inside the car, then you must use Teflon hose. Often this has a stainless braided covering, although there are other options now.
You should never use any other type of flexible hose inside the cabin.
If it is outside the cabin, then any suitable hose would do. There are cheaper rubber hoses with stainless overbraid protection.
Although I hate stainless braided hoses. And when they are routed close to things, they are like a hacksaw, and can cut through almost anything if they arent secured properly.
I would never just use soft rubber hoses from front to rear, regardless of how they are routed.
And it's unlikely the OEM used copper. More likely to be steel ? Although there is nothing wrong with copper.
If the fuel lines are inside the car, then you must use Teflon hose. Often this has a stainless braided covering, although there are other options now.
You should never use any other type of flexible hose inside the cabin.
If it is outside the cabin, then any suitable hose would do. There are cheaper rubber hoses with stainless overbraid protection.
Although I hate stainless braided hoses. And when they are routed close to things, they are like a hacksaw, and can cut through almost anything if they arent secured properly.
I would never just use soft rubber hoses from front to rear, regardless of how they are routed.
And it's unlikely the OEM used copper. More likely to be steel ? Although there is nothing wrong with copper.
The Black Flash said:
In my readings, I've come across examples of failure in all types. BUT most of the stories of braided hose failing seemed to be "mate of a mate" stories rather than first hand experience (though I stand to be enlightened ).
Personal experience - I replaced rubber fuel hose on my Westfield with braided hose. 3 years later I replaced braided hose with plain rubber again. I couldn't see which section of hose was leaking fuel, but I could see & smell fuel running down the outside of the hose.).I will never again use braided hose for fuel or coolant, only for short runs of brake fluid where the difference in resistance to expansion is beneficial. I'd rather see the outer layer starting to break down than hear the "woof" of catastrophic failure.
My brake hoses are now replaced at regular intervals, whether they need it or not.
Stevieturbo has given good advice so far and is very knowledgeable from what I've seen so far. I got my tip from my old boss that builds hot rods and races with NRHA so that's why I took that route. it worked but it does depend like stevieturbo says on where it's running and what type of supply you expect to get from it. Gates are reputable manufacturers of cambelts and other car products and my turbo ran at high pressure to feed the engine and to compensate for the loss of the swirlpot in the tank so it should work for you depending on the situation. thanks again steve for your earlier posting on my topic.
marshalla said:
Personal experience - I replaced rubber fuel hose on my Westfield with braided hose. 3 years later I replaced braided hose with plain rubber again. I couldn't see which section of hose was leaking fuel, but I could see & smell fuel running down the outside of the hose.
I will never again use braided hose for fuel or coolant, only for short runs of brake fluid where the difference in resistance to expansion is beneficial. I'd rather see the outer layer starting to break down than hear the "woof" of catastrophic failure.
My brake hoses are now replaced at regular intervals, whether they need it or not.
I know that there have been a lot of failures of rubber hose in the last few years, believed to be due to the increased ethanol content. I will never again use braided hose for fuel or coolant, only for short runs of brake fluid where the difference in resistance to expansion is beneficial. I'd rather see the outer layer starting to break down than hear the "woof" of catastrophic failure.
My brake hoses are now replaced at regular intervals, whether they need it or not.
A counter example is a chap with a Caterham, who stripped it down to find the copper hose had chaffed in an innacessible place (behind the diff) and was virtually worn through.
All of my experience is of rubber hose failing at the joins with hard lines, so I took the view that fewer joins = better, and got the most expensive hose I could.
As you say, regular inspections are the only way to be sure I think.
In my experience fuel line failure with braided hose is caused by incorrect specification of hose being use. I regularly work with a fluid that eats through most things (specialist transmission fluid, really nasty stuff), but when the correct hose is specced (an off the shelf goodridge or earl's hose) it doesn't touch it!
There have been numerous posts on Locostbuilders where people have had braided rubber hoses degrade and start degrading very quickly (within a year or two). It seems a lot of low spec hose is being sold that simply isn't compatible with modern unleaded fuels; often the supplier can't even tell you what the spec. of the hose is, or may not even be aware that it's important.
Someone took the time to figure out the grade system for fuel pipe and started a very useful thread.
Someone took the time to figure out the grade system for fuel pipe and started a very useful thread.
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