twin injector in TB's Is it worth it?
Discussion
I'm running a Jag (ford) 3L V6 in a very sucessful off road buggy and as always am looking for a tweek here & there.
Does anyone have experience of running dual staged injectors (this would be 12 in my case)?
At present the TB's are Jenvey with 440 injectors, power is 335bhp, max revs 8500rpm.
I was thinking of fitting the std fuel setup with injectors on the back of inlet valves, then having secondaries out in the trumpets.
I remember reading an article Dave Walker did years ago in CCC that had good results with a Peugeot 16V (230 BHP?)
I'm looking for a bit of boost to mid range, plus maybe a little bit on the top due to better fuel mix.
Any thoughts???
Does anyone have experience of running dual staged injectors (this would be 12 in my case)?
At present the TB's are Jenvey with 440 injectors, power is 335bhp, max revs 8500rpm.
I was thinking of fitting the std fuel setup with injectors on the back of inlet valves, then having secondaries out in the trumpets.
I remember reading an article Dave Walker did years ago in CCC that had good results with a Peugeot 16V (230 BHP?)
I'm looking for a bit of boost to mid range, plus maybe a little bit on the top due to better fuel mix.
Any thoughts???
I imagine gains would be quite small for the work involved. But certainly something interesting to try if all other avenues have been explored.
If it's primarily a race car, you could try installing a set upstream and using them on their own instead. Would save any wiring changes for now, and can your ecu handle 12 staged injectors at present ?
It would be the quickest and easiest way to see if they would produce any gains.
If it's primarily a race car, you could try installing a set upstream and using them on their own instead. Would save any wiring changes for now, and can your ecu handle 12 staged injectors at present ?
It would be the quickest and easiest way to see if they would produce any gains.
You might get a bit Rick, but I wouldn't imagine it'd be a massive amount, I've got a mate that does quite a lot of twin injector setups and on the little Pugs he normally picks up about 6-10bhp - usually around peak torque, not as much up the top - it's not a lot, but as he says, for the cost of a set of injectors and a bit of wiring...however, that's against the more usual setup of just the injectors in the head.
We run twin staged injectors on ours, but have never run it any other way, so I can't tell you if there's any difference.
I thought the accepted upgrade these days was 'stick a v10 in it' anyway?
We run twin staged injectors on ours, but have never run it any other way, so I can't tell you if there's any difference.
I thought the accepted upgrade these days was 'stick a v10 in it' anyway?
Edited by PhillipM on Saturday 26th November 11:58
stevieturbo said:
Best way to boost though....is with boost lol
Doesn't work offroad! There have been 1 or 2 exceptions (maybe just 1 then with a subaru), even the great Vincent Foucart (the engine god in france) has gone back to a v16 (made from 4 cbr 600 motors) from a supercharged kwack 1400Phil, can you give send me a pm with your number so I can chat about the pug guy.
Purple Orchid said:
Doesn't work offroad! There have been 1 or 2 exceptions (maybe just 1 then with a subaru), even the great Vincent Foucart (the engine god in france) has gone back to a v16 (made from 4 cbr 600 motors) from a supercharged kwack 1400
Phil, can you give send me a pm with your number so I can chat about the pug guy.
V16....that's sure going to extremes !!! You cant post a statement like that and not show us pics of more info Phil, can you give send me a pm with your number so I can chat about the pug guy.
Must be some serious racing ? How come boosted setups dont work ?
Edit. just looked at some of your photos. That looks like awesome fun !!
Foucart's motor is new out, there should be some footage on youtube after this weekend. His previous motors were a V12 in a pug 205 ice race body shell, 2L M3 (sleeved & stroked down) that revs to 12,000 plus an arrow head 3L made from 3 bike engines!
Off road racing is moving forward, forget your Bowler Nemisis's as these are under a weight restriction (1800kg); cars now are down to 1150kg, high 300bhp, 6 spd seq boxes with flat shift, trick shocks etc. Cars now have to handle at speed as well as handle the rough stuff.
In uk there is no capacity limit, some LS motors being used, France is limited to 3.6L, so Nissan 3.5 v6 is popular.
Off road racing is moving forward, forget your Bowler Nemisis's as these are under a weight restriction (1800kg); cars now are down to 1150kg, high 300bhp, 6 spd seq boxes with flat shift, trick shocks etc. Cars now have to handle at speed as well as handle the rough stuff.
In uk there is no capacity limit, some LS motors being used, France is limited to 3.6L, so Nissan 3.5 v6 is popular.
stevieturbo said:
V16....that's sure going to extremes !!! You cant post a statement like that and not show us pics of more info
Must be some serious racing ? How come boosted setups dont work ?
Edit. just looked at some of your photos. That looks like awesome fun !!
His previous W12 engine:Must be some serious racing ? How come boosted setups dont work ?
Edit. just looked at some of your photos. That looks like awesome fun !!
and the latest 2 litre V16:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaXsM6IE0mY
I run the same engine with the ford heads (noble), my understanding is that you can get cams that allow the Jag heads to rev to 9000rpm, have you considered going this route for a little more power?
I have cams in my engine and it gained power mid and top end and upped the redline from 7k to 8k.
I have cams in my engine and it gained power mid and top end and upped the redline from 7k to 8k.
Hi Andy
Already running 285 cams (full profiles, not regrinds), max power is 7700, althought the power drops away after it's not like falling off a cliff so engine redlines at 8,500.
Running Pauter rods, Wossner pistons, fully blueprinted bottom end & block. The standard rods are sintered & not very big, ran a standard motor for 2 years with a 7,700 rpm limit with no issues.
Might make up a fuel rail to try the 6 squirters in the trumpets on the rollers as an experiment however....
Already running 285 cams (full profiles, not regrinds), max power is 7700, althought the power drops away after it's not like falling off a cliff so engine redlines at 8,500.
Running Pauter rods, Wossner pistons, fully blueprinted bottom end & block. The standard rods are sintered & not very big, ran a standard motor for 2 years with a 7,700 rpm limit with no issues.
Might make up a fuel rail to try the 6 squirters in the trumpets on the rollers as an experiment however....
There are 2 major constructors in France, these are Rivet and Fouquet. Both make space framed composite bodied buggies for off road (tout terrain) racing; search on youtube for "rallye tout terrain 2011" for this years videos etc.
I don't think they have web sites, the racing in France is a bit of a hidden gem, the top cars run Foucart Nissans putting out 400+ bhp in 1180kg 4 wheel drive chassis. The fouquet uses double wishbone front, trailing arm rear, Rivet is double wishbone front, multilink rear.
All the cars are mid engined with 6 speed sequential boxes etc and seriously quick! There was a trend to use car siloettes a few years ago, these have been banded as peugeot got the hump, so noww most cars are buggies.
Being France the local Mayors can shut roads through villages etc so you can run 4km through a village, then into woods, onto tracks etc etc. The events get between 70 to 125 entries & run similar to rally's with service after each stage and on a time card; cars have to be road legal as there are road liasons.
The noise limit is 106 dB, (our car is too quiet at 99 dB), and as with all French motorsport the locals really appreciate the fact that the teams and rally followers stay in the local hotels, spend money in the villages and restaraunts and generally put money into local businesses.
The event we do in October is sponsered by the Leclerc Hypermarket, they have the cars on display IN the supermarket!
Can you imagine Tesco's doing that?
I don't think they have web sites, the racing in France is a bit of a hidden gem, the top cars run Foucart Nissans putting out 400+ bhp in 1180kg 4 wheel drive chassis. The fouquet uses double wishbone front, trailing arm rear, Rivet is double wishbone front, multilink rear.
All the cars are mid engined with 6 speed sequential boxes etc and seriously quick! There was a trend to use car siloettes a few years ago, these have been banded as peugeot got the hump, so noww most cars are buggies.
Being France the local Mayors can shut roads through villages etc so you can run 4km through a village, then into woods, onto tracks etc etc. The events get between 70 to 125 entries & run similar to rally's with service after each stage and on a time card; cars have to be road legal as there are road liasons.
The noise limit is 106 dB, (our car is too quiet at 99 dB), and as with all French motorsport the locals really appreciate the fact that the teams and rally followers stay in the local hotels, spend money in the villages and restaraunts and generally put money into local businesses.
The event we do in October is sponsered by the Leclerc Hypermarket, they have the cars on display IN the supermarket!
Can you imagine Tesco's doing that?
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