Mercedes w210 E280 starts but cuts out?
Discussion
1999 merc w210 e280 v6 petrol. Drove about 300miles home for Xmas. Car running perfect. Next day drove car to local shops, came back after few mins and car won't start. Tried starting every few mins, cranking strong just not firing up, then starts after about 20 min. Runs smooth and perfect. Let it idle for a bit, seems ok and as about to set off, cuts out. Will not restart. Called family and towed back to house.
Since then i have established that from cold, the Engine starts no problem but after about 15 or 20 mins idle the engine cuts out. If I try to restart it, just cranks over and won't fire up. I've taken a spark plug out to see if I have spark on cranking when it cuts out and I don't. (also checked When engine cold, and I do have spark and engine runs minus 1 cylinder!.) If I wait about 20 or so minutes after it cuts out, then it will start again no problem but after it warms up to normal temp again it cuts out and will not start again as before unless I wait to cool again. The temp gauge does not rise beyond where it normally sits about mid way (82 ish deg c). Everything under bonnit seems ok, all fluids ok, radiator hoses etc.
Is some sensor telling the engine to shut down and won't let it restart for some reason? Can anyone Advise what may be going on?
Thanks any advise appreciated.
Mrm
Since then i have established that from cold, the Engine starts no problem but after about 15 or 20 mins idle the engine cuts out. If I try to restart it, just cranks over and won't fire up. I've taken a spark plug out to see if I have spark on cranking when it cuts out and I don't. (also checked When engine cold, and I do have spark and engine runs minus 1 cylinder!.) If I wait about 20 or so minutes after it cuts out, then it will start again no problem but after it warms up to normal temp again it cuts out and will not start again as before unless I wait to cool again. The temp gauge does not rise beyond where it normally sits about mid way (82 ish deg c). Everything under bonnit seems ok, all fluids ok, radiator hoses etc.
Is some sensor telling the engine to shut down and won't let it restart for some reason? Can anyone Advise what may be going on?
Thanks any advise appreciated.
Mrm
I'd say from the sounds of what you describe that you have a faulty crank sensor. They have a habit of cutting the spark when they are faulty and from your problems I would say that it's the first place I'd look. It could be an immobiliser fault but generally they cut power to the fuel pump too so worth ruling it out by checking pressure at the injectors if there's a bleed valve and cranking it over again to see if the fuel is pressuring at the injectors.
I can't say I'm familiar with this type of fault on a Merc, but everything you describe points at the crank sensor which doesn't always illuminate the EML. Nearly every other make has this problem, none more so than the Renault which runs their's on top of the gearbox picking up from the flywheel. (changed so many of them I've lost count). I'd say that yours will probably be from the bottom crank pulley that runs the alternator belts etc or maybe somewhere off the crank at the bottom. In the later Audis they run from the oil level sensor at the bottom of the sump so worth looking there. (not that familiar with your engine)
The crank sensor sends the pulse to the sparks in short and could be the cause of the loss of spark. It normally happens when the engine heats up (electric sensors normally misbehave this way) and I'd put money on that's your problem. You can sometimes remove and clean them if they have a build up of swarf / dirt but generally they die totally within a short while. It's because it starts when it's cold and dies when it warms up is why I'm drawn to the crank sensor, typical symptoms of when they fail.
One word of advice though is to make sure that the ignition is OFF at all times if you do disconnect any sensors. I pulled a fuse once on a C220 compact for the side lights and wiped the ECU. £800 repair later for a new ECU board which was a common fault but 'not a recall item as it's electrical' by Mercedes. Since then I NEVER play with any electrics without the power off and touch wood have not repeated my expensive mistake since.
Hope it helps.
Ady
I can't say I'm familiar with this type of fault on a Merc, but everything you describe points at the crank sensor which doesn't always illuminate the EML. Nearly every other make has this problem, none more so than the Renault which runs their's on top of the gearbox picking up from the flywheel. (changed so many of them I've lost count). I'd say that yours will probably be from the bottom crank pulley that runs the alternator belts etc or maybe somewhere off the crank at the bottom. In the later Audis they run from the oil level sensor at the bottom of the sump so worth looking there. (not that familiar with your engine)
The crank sensor sends the pulse to the sparks in short and could be the cause of the loss of spark. It normally happens when the engine heats up (electric sensors normally misbehave this way) and I'd put money on that's your problem. You can sometimes remove and clean them if they have a build up of swarf / dirt but generally they die totally within a short while. It's because it starts when it's cold and dies when it warms up is why I'm drawn to the crank sensor, typical symptoms of when they fail.
One word of advice though is to make sure that the ignition is OFF at all times if you do disconnect any sensors. I pulled a fuse once on a C220 compact for the side lights and wiped the ECU. £800 repair later for a new ECU board which was a common fault but 'not a recall item as it's electrical' by Mercedes. Since then I NEVER play with any electrics without the power off and touch wood have not repeated my expensive mistake since.
Hope it helps.
Ady
Thank you so much for taking the time and for such a detailed and helpful response. I replaced the crank position sensor and the car runs perfect now. Cost about £34 for the new sensor. Located on the back of the engine on passenger side. Access very tight to get at it. Thanks again.
Good stuff! Glad to be of assistance. Your accurate description made it fairly clear cut but I'm always loathe to say it's definitely this or that. One word of advice I do have is be gentle under the bonnet with the electrics especially the MAF sensor (meter unit inline with the air filter box). I did some work on an AMG E55 and it failed straight after. Mercedes said you can breathe on them and they go wrong. £200 later and an angry punter but lesson learned...... never play with Merc electrics, they burn you!
All the best!
All the best!
Hello to everyone my name is Ntokozo from south Africa I have an e280 w210 m112 engine 2000 model petrol with similar problem but mine also cuts out when I shift to drive or reverse. Also mine can start when cold and idle for 15-20minutes and when it reaches operating temperature or is warned up cuts out and can not start until it's cold, but it can start while it's hot if I use the accelerator and if I stop accelerating it dies immediately fault code p20d5 please help, thanks in advance
Wallinho said:
NB: replaced with a pirate sensor from GW
No idea what that means by the way.I would be generically looking for a vacuum leak with your symptoms.
Could be a vac line to an ancillary like fuel regulator/servo/etc could be buried invisibly in a concertina intake hose.
You can spray brake cleaner/wd 40 around the area to see if it affects idler etc to help find an area affected.
That means I didn't use the genuine crankshaft sensor from Mercedes. thanks i will update as soon as I checked the vacuum leak, and my pse vacuum pump isn't working, the motor inside the pump turns for a long time and it doesn't actuate the mechenisms like locking the doors, rear head restraints folding and boot opening and I noticed 1 of the pipes goes to the engine. Can the pse vacuum pump cause the problem i have?
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