Discussion
need to get a drive by wire system up and running so appreciate any help with components and compatibility . currently the engine runs with a cable operated throttle body / fuel injection . thinking of using a throttle body electrically operated with a cable operating my existing system . need to know what components i require from the electrically operated system and any issues with doing this . please no 'why bother' posts .
this is what i am building similar to -
jetlev flyer
zapata flyboard
pump unit well on way to completion as in
pwcforums.co.uk
major mods section - 'thing'
this is what i am building similar to -
jetlev flyer
zapata flyboard
pump unit well on way to completion as in
pwcforums.co.uk
major mods section - 'thing'
Edited by andys9 on Sunday 5th February 09:25
andys9 said:
need to get a drive by wire system up and running so appreciate any help with components and compatibility . currently the engine runs with a cable operated throttle body / fuel injection . thinking of using a throttle body electrically operated with a cable operating my existing system . need to know what components i require from the electrically operated system and any issues with doing this . please no 'why bother' posts .
this is what i am building similar to -
jetlev flyer
zapata flyboard
pump unit well on way to completion as in
pwcforums.co.uk
major mods section - 'thing'
EH?this is what i am building similar to -
jetlev flyer
zapata flyboard
pump unit well on way to completion as in
pwcforums.co.uk
major mods section - 'thing'
Edited by andys9 on Sunday 5th February 09:25
andys9 said:
Hello, this is my first post and I have a question. I need to get a drive by wire system up and running so would appreciate any help with components and compatibility. Currently the engine runs with a cable operated throttle body / fuel injection. I am thinking of using a electrically operated throttle body with a cable operating my existing system. Need to know what components I require from the electrically operated system and any issues with doing this. (please no 'why bother' posts)
This is what I am building similar to -
jetlev flyer
zapata flyboard
The pump unit well on way to completion as in
'pwcforums.co.uk' major mods section - 'thing'
EFAThis is what I am building similar to -
jetlev flyer
zapata flyboard
The pump unit well on way to completion as in
'pwcforums.co.uk' major mods section - 'thing'
Edited by andys9 on Sunday 5th February 09:25
No idea how to answer question but some more engine details might be useful for those that can. Pictures would be good to.
andys9 said:
need to get a drive by wire system up and running so appreciate any help with components and compatibility . currently the engine runs with a cable operated throttle body / fuel injection . thinking of using a throttle body electrically operated with a cable operating my existing system . need to know what components i require from the electrically operated system and any issues with doing this . please no 'why bother' posts .
this is what i am building similar to -
jetlev flyer
zapata flyboard
pump unit well on way to completion as in
pwcforums.co.uk
major mods section - 'thing'
Some helpful information might be...this is what i am building similar to -
jetlev flyer
zapata flyboard
pump unit well on way to completion as in
pwcforums.co.uk
major mods section - 'thing'
Edited by andys9 on Sunday 5th February 09:25
What ecu are you using ? What sort of throttle are you after ? multiple or single ?
And can your ecu ( and hand throttle ) even accomodate DBW ?
You will probably find that assuming your engine has no DBW hardware/software at all, then just using RC car servo to operate the throttle is the easiest option. Clearly this is absolutely only an "OFF HIGHWAY" application as there will be no safety or backup in case of failure (and a system failure could leave your throttle jammed open.......)
You might be able to do something with the throttles and ECU from an old BMW 750/850.
They had 2 engine ecus, and a separate throttle ECU to balance each bank.
It's the closes to a standalone, but it will be expecting 2 MAFs and throttles.
They did have a single bank only limp mode, so there could be a way of getting it to work.
You might need to try stuff like sending the single MAF signal to both ECU inputs.
I'm not sure what comes out of the other side though, whether it'll send out a MAF like signal to the engine ECUs for the usual calculations, or it alters the signal some way.
They had 2 engine ecus, and a separate throttle ECU to balance each bank.
It's the closes to a standalone, but it will be expecting 2 MAFs and throttles.
They did have a single bank only limp mode, so there could be a way of getting it to work.
You might need to try stuff like sending the single MAF signal to both ECU inputs.
I'm not sure what comes out of the other side though, whether it'll send out a MAF like signal to the engine ECUs for the usual calculations, or it alters the signal some way.
pls you tube 'zapata flyboard' . if i could , i would place a link on here , but i dont know how to . looking for engine throttle control from 10- 20m . hard wired . really appreciate any help . thanks . if you go to zapata racing and see the flyboard link you can see from the link he has worked out how to operate the unit electrically .
prob build will be similar to jetlev flyer , again you tube , as too old and infirm for the frenchmans jetpack . andy
both units currently available seem to run an electric throttle . suggesting my current set up just needs an operating system that operates electrically . throttle position sensor , running parameters all thru existing set up . just need to operate the cable drum(quadrant) somehow . but is it ever that simple ?
prob build will be similar to jetlev flyer , again you tube , as too old and infirm for the frenchmans jetpack . andy
both units currently available seem to run an electric throttle . suggesting my current set up just needs an operating system that operates electrically . throttle position sensor , running parameters all thru existing set up . just need to operate the cable drum(quadrant) somehow . but is it ever that simple ?
Edited by andys9 on Sunday 5th February 16:34
Edited by andys9 on Sunday 5th February 16:37
As i said above, use an RC servo like this:
http://www.pololu.com/catalog/category/23
They are easy to drive, requiring a pulse width input that has a "High" pulse proportional and ratiometric to the position demand (1ms high time = min position, 1.5ms high = mid position, 2ms high = max position). You can generate this pulse via various methods:
1) the most flexible is something like a PIC or AVR microprocessor, reading an input demand (from same a thumb trigger potentiometer) and outputing the appropriate pulse for position.
2) use a "servo tester" to do the same:
effectively that is a microprocessor that comes pre programmed to output the correct pulse signal in proportion to how much you turn the knob on the front. You will want to remove the knob, which will almost certainly be a std potentiometer, and replace with a suitable thumb trigger etc (or arrange for your throttle cable to twist said knob as required)
For both options you will need a 5v power supply, 12v to 5v step down units are cheap and easily availible (the RC servo does not take much power)
The thing to be aware of is that RC servo's will stop in their current position if they loose power. Hence a failure will leave your throttle jammed open!! I suggets you use a totally seperate "safety" switch that can cut the engines ignition in the event of an issue!
http://www.pololu.com/catalog/category/23
They are easy to drive, requiring a pulse width input that has a "High" pulse proportional and ratiometric to the position demand (1ms high time = min position, 1.5ms high = mid position, 2ms high = max position). You can generate this pulse via various methods:
1) the most flexible is something like a PIC or AVR microprocessor, reading an input demand (from same a thumb trigger potentiometer) and outputing the appropriate pulse for position.
2) use a "servo tester" to do the same:
effectively that is a microprocessor that comes pre programmed to output the correct pulse signal in proportion to how much you turn the knob on the front. You will want to remove the knob, which will almost certainly be a std potentiometer, and replace with a suitable thumb trigger etc (or arrange for your throttle cable to twist said knob as required)
For both options you will need a 5v power supply, 12v to 5v step down units are cheap and easily availible (the RC servo does not take much power)
The thing to be aware of is that RC servo's will stop in their current position if they loose power. Hence a failure will leave your throttle jammed open!! I suggets you use a totally seperate "safety" switch that can cut the engines ignition in the event of an issue!
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 5th February 19:57
cheers for the reply . i appreciate any help . really looking for an in built safety shutdown built in .
as i understand it the components of a drive by wire are the acclerator potentiometer , an ecu , and a throttle body with wiring loom in between . believe the brake operates as a shutdown and as such could be operated as a dead man . keep a lever held in and if released would simulate an operation of the brake and cause a shut down .
so are there cars out there that have a throttle specific ecu that operates solely in response to accelerator position / throttle body position sensor .
thinking of using a throttle body to operate my existing throttle body via a cable so whole operating parameters of the original engine are unaffected and controlled by the existing system .
as i understand it the components of a drive by wire are the acclerator potentiometer , an ecu , and a throttle body with wiring loom in between . believe the brake operates as a shutdown and as such could be operated as a dead man . keep a lever held in and if released would simulate an operation of the brake and cause a shut down .
so are there cars out there that have a throttle specific ecu that operates solely in response to accelerator position / throttle body position sensor .
thinking of using a throttle body to operate my existing throttle body via a cable so whole operating parameters of the original engine are unaffected and controlled by the existing system .
AFAIK all DBW are controlled by the main ECU and open the throttle depending on load, rpm and throttle.
As others have said there is (relatively) little point in it otherwise although you could have different maps so for example the first 50% of throttle activates the first 75% and the final 50% the last 25%.
You can do it with something like an arduino and take the 'knob' example along with say the throttle pedal out of something like an RX-8
As others have said there is (relatively) little point in it otherwise although you could have different maps so for example the first 50% of throttle activates the first 75% and the final 50% the last 25%.
You can do it with something like an arduino and take the 'knob' example along with say the throttle pedal out of something like an RX-8
Well cruise control is a simple motor rigged up to open a sprung throttle.
I assume it's a petrol engine you'll be using, if it is a full sized thing, then you'd probably be able to fit the cruise control cable onto the throttle.
It'd still need a controller, but it's an easy to get hold of part that is designed to open throttles.
I assume it's a petrol engine you'll be using, if it is a full sized thing, then you'd probably be able to fit the cruise control cable onto the throttle.
It'd still need a controller, but it's an easy to get hold of part that is designed to open throttles.
ok , thanks for the replies . referring to one specific car , could someone pls itemise the components .
some form of throttle position actuator , an ecu , a motor . would imagine the brake sensor could be used as a safety , wired as a dead man . imagine a cruise control utilises push button rather than a rotary component for speed increase/decrease ? power supply from .....?
seperate question - with drive by wire if you turn on the ignition but dont start the engine . does the throttle body open and close as the pedal gets depressed and released ?
some form of throttle position actuator , an ecu , a motor . would imagine the brake sensor could be used as a safety , wired as a dead man . imagine a cruise control utilises push button rather than a rotary component for speed increase/decrease ? power supply from .....?
seperate question - with drive by wire if you turn on the ignition but dont start the engine . does the throttle body open and close as the pedal gets depressed and released ?
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