Backwards progress
Discussion
Hello to all,
I have a quick question: Suppose we take our typical Euro5 1.6-2.0 diesel engine (PSA, FIAT, VW, anything really), we take away the common rail system, the particulate filter and the EGR. We can keep the turbo. We replace with an old fashioned rotary injection pump and mechanical (i.e. non-electronic) injectors. What would be the penalty in emissions, NVH and output? More importantly, what would be the losses in therms of brake specific consumption?
I am obviously not looking to doing this myself, however I was wondering the other day if all the above complications are only due to emissions. I have experience with an ancient N/A 1.8 Renault engine, with no electronics whatsoever and an Isuzu 3.0 TD engine, fitted in a DMax pickup. The latter only has some rudimentary electronic control on the injection pump, maybe timing? It is definitely an old school rotary pump with minimal (as far as I understand) electronics and the injectors are mechanical.
In both the above examples the engines don't smoke, start easily when cold. The fuel consumption is excellent considering the weights, gearing and work they have to do. So what progress has been achieved in the past years of increasing complication?
I know this is not particularly exciting and a better first post in this section would be "Which supercharger for my SBC?"
There are however people frequenting this section whose knowledge on drivetrain issues has great depth. Please feel free to contribute
I have a quick question: Suppose we take our typical Euro5 1.6-2.0 diesel engine (PSA, FIAT, VW, anything really), we take away the common rail system, the particulate filter and the EGR. We can keep the turbo. We replace with an old fashioned rotary injection pump and mechanical (i.e. non-electronic) injectors. What would be the penalty in emissions, NVH and output? More importantly, what would be the losses in therms of brake specific consumption?
I am obviously not looking to doing this myself, however I was wondering the other day if all the above complications are only due to emissions. I have experience with an ancient N/A 1.8 Renault engine, with no electronics whatsoever and an Isuzu 3.0 TD engine, fitted in a DMax pickup. The latter only has some rudimentary electronic control on the injection pump, maybe timing? It is definitely an old school rotary pump with minimal (as far as I understand) electronics and the injectors are mechanical.
In both the above examples the engines don't smoke, start easily when cold. The fuel consumption is excellent considering the weights, gearing and work they have to do. So what progress has been achieved in the past years of increasing complication?
I know this is not particularly exciting and a better first post in this section would be "Which supercharger for my SBC?"
There are however people frequenting this section whose knowledge on drivetrain issues has great depth. Please feel free to contribute
Yup, meeting emissions targets is not excatly fun. But the simple fact of the matter is that if you want to actually sell some cars, then you do need to meet those emissions limits!
High pressure common rail diesels make much more power (rev higher), make a much larger torque figure without smoke, are a lot quieter and meet tailpipe emissions limits that an old indirect mechanically pumped diesel would fail just by being started up once.
High pressure common rail diesels make much more power (rev higher), make a much larger torque figure without smoke, are a lot quieter and meet tailpipe emissions limits that an old indirect mechanically pumped diesel would fail just by being started up once.
Yes most of it is for emissions but there is a benifit in economy and noise with common rail though not as much if emissions didnt matter and timing could be optimised and power robbing cats,egr and dpf left off hopefully diesels will be around for many years the next step will be cleaner fuels like natural gas made to liquid,
Diesel power is adictive definately mans power even small diesels in cars
why anyone would buy a whezing torqueless small petrol car when you can have a economical but powerfull diesel is beyond me.. if its petrol got to be V6 orV8 then there is a point to them, might consider trading in for say a boss 302, or super snake mustang othewise not intrerested esp these 4 cylinder turbos that all sound like a blocked hoover....
Diesel power is adictive definately mans power even small diesels in cars
why anyone would buy a whezing torqueless small petrol car when you can have a economical but powerfull diesel is beyond me.. if its petrol got to be V6 orV8 then there is a point to them, might consider trading in for say a boss 302, or super snake mustang othewise not intrerested esp these 4 cylinder turbos that all sound like a blocked hoover....
powerstroke said:
Yes most of it is for emissions but there is a benifit in economy and noise with common rail though not as much if emissions didnt matter and timing could be optimised and power robbing cats,egr and dpf left off hopefully diesels will be around for many years the next step will be cleaner fuels like natural gas made to liquid,
Diesel power is adictive definately mans power even small diesels in cars
why anyone would buy a whezing torqueless small petrol car when you can have a economical but powerfull diesel is beyond me.. if its petrol got to be V6 orV8 then there is a point to them, might consider trading in for say a boss 302, or super snake mustang othewise not intrerested esp these 4 cylinder turbos that all sound like a blocked hoover....
I think you may be confusing "forced induction" engines with NA ones, rather than CI to SI ;-)Diesel power is adictive definately mans power even small diesels in cars
why anyone would buy a whezing torqueless small petrol car when you can have a economical but powerfull diesel is beyond me.. if its petrol got to be V6 orV8 then there is a point to them, might consider trading in for say a boss 302, or super snake mustang othewise not intrerested esp these 4 cylinder turbos that all sound like a blocked hoover....
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