oil change intervals and maintaining maximum engine life
Discussion
This is something I have been asked to do by work.
We have data for:
Oil Pressure
Oil Temperature
Engine Revs
Road Speed
Vehicle Mileage
We do not have:
Previous oil change date
Vehicle recommended oil change intervals
or any servicing information
What I need to do:
Using the data I have i need to predict the point in time that a vehicle requires an oil change, the premise is that changing oil too early will produce unnecessary costs and changing the oil too late can cause engine damage so even more costs.
I understand that oil pressure and oil temp can be use to figure out the oil viscosity which can be used to figure out if the oil needs changing.
Does anyone have any idea if it is possible with the information I have and if it is the best ways to do it?
We have data for:
Oil Pressure
Oil Temperature
Engine Revs
Road Speed
Vehicle Mileage
We do not have:
Previous oil change date
Vehicle recommended oil change intervals
or any servicing information
What I need to do:
Using the data I have i need to predict the point in time that a vehicle requires an oil change, the premise is that changing oil too early will produce unnecessary costs and changing the oil too late can cause engine damage so even more costs.
I understand that oil pressure and oil temp can be use to figure out the oil viscosity which can be used to figure out if the oil needs changing.
Does anyone have any idea if it is possible with the information I have and if it is the best ways to do it?
On newly acquired used vehicles with no history assume its never been changed & change it.
Check with the vehicle manufacturer for their recommended oil change intervals & then plan future changes accordingly.
Use genuine parts oil filters & good quality oil of viscosity recommended by the vehicle manufacturer.
Whilst there is no legal requirement to have a franchised dealer carrying out the servicing, if you want a warranty claim to stand up you will have to show that servicing was carried out in accordance with the manufacturer's schedule and that genuine parts were used.
Check with the vehicle manufacturer for their recommended oil change intervals & then plan future changes accordingly.
Use genuine parts oil filters & good quality oil of viscosity recommended by the vehicle manufacturer.
Whilst there is no legal requirement to have a franchised dealer carrying out the servicing, if you want a warranty claim to stand up you will have to show that servicing was carried out in accordance with the manufacturer's schedule and that genuine parts were used.
Edited by paintman on Thursday 10th January 15:35
sbridgey said:
This is something I have been asked to do by work.
We have data for:
Oil Pressure
Oil Temperature
Engine Revs
Road Speed
Vehicle Mileage
We do not have:
Previous oil change date
Vehicle recommended oil change intervals
or any servicing information
What I need to do:
Using the data I have i need to predict the point in time that a vehicle requires an oil change, the premise is that changing oil too early will produce unnecessary costs and changing the oil too late can cause engine damage so even more costs.
I understand that oil pressure and oil temp can be use to figure out the oil viscosity which can be used to figure out if the oil needs changing.
Does anyone have any idea if it is possible with the information I have and if it is the best ways to do it?
A bit "cryptic" tell us more. What's the vehicle is this just hypothetical?We have data for:
Oil Pressure
Oil Temperature
Engine Revs
Road Speed
Vehicle Mileage
We do not have:
Previous oil change date
Vehicle recommended oil change intervals
or any servicing information
What I need to do:
Using the data I have i need to predict the point in time that a vehicle requires an oil change, the premise is that changing oil too early will produce unnecessary costs and changing the oil too late can cause engine damage so even more costs.
I understand that oil pressure and oil temp can be use to figure out the oil viscosity which can be used to figure out if the oil needs changing.
Does anyone have any idea if it is possible with the information I have and if it is the best ways to do it?
Well I have no control over whether the vehicle is actually serviced, i am just supposed to use the data provided to produce estimate the optimum point for an oil change.
Of course i suggested that following the manufacturer recommendations but no no no we can do it better, yeah right!
Of course i suggested that following the manufacturer recommendations but no no no we can do it better, yeah right!
I would google variable service intervals and condition based servicing, you might find some interesting info as to how the OEMs do it. Then copy/paste to your report.
The OEMs count the number of cold starts, hot starts, time spent at/above different rpm /load thresholds and probably more. If your employer thinks it would be cost effective to start logging this data on every piece of equipment then carry on. The other thing to consider is that if you deviate from the manufacturer recommendations, and you suffer more failures or reduced life you will get the blame.
ETA
You may also be liable under the HSWA if you had a failure attributable or not to reduced maintenance intervals that lead to an injury of an employee.
The OEMs count the number of cold starts, hot starts, time spent at/above different rpm /load thresholds and probably more. If your employer thinks it would be cost effective to start logging this data on every piece of equipment then carry on. The other thing to consider is that if you deviate from the manufacturer recommendations, and you suffer more failures or reduced life you will get the blame.
ETA
You may also be liable under the HSWA if you had a failure attributable or not to reduced maintenance intervals that lead to an injury of an employee.
Edited by stevesingo on Thursday 10th January 16:44
Also consider that, with cars at least, manufacturers are extending service intervals to breaking point in an effort to appease fleet operators and lease companys. I certainly wouldn't assume that the engine will comfortably exceed the manufacturers intervals because the wear rate will increase exponentially with extra miles as the oil deteriorates and the filter gums up etc.
sbridgey said:
This is something I have been asked to do by work.
We have data for:
Oil Pressure
Oil Temperature
Engine Revs
Road Speed
Vehicle Mileage
We do not have:
Previous oil change date
Vehicle recommended oil change intervals
or any servicing information
What I need to do:
Using the data I have i need to predict the point in time that a vehicle requires an oil change, the premise is that changing oil too early will produce unnecessary costs and changing the oil too late can cause engine damage so even more costs.
I understand that oil pressure and oil temp can be use to figure out the oil viscosity which can be used to figure out if the oil needs changing.
Does anyone have any idea if it is possible with the information I have and if it is the best ways to do it?
What is your definition of "when the oil needs changing"?We have data for:
Oil Pressure
Oil Temperature
Engine Revs
Road Speed
Vehicle Mileage
We do not have:
Previous oil change date
Vehicle recommended oil change intervals
or any servicing information
What I need to do:
Using the data I have i need to predict the point in time that a vehicle requires an oil change, the premise is that changing oil too early will produce unnecessary costs and changing the oil too late can cause engine damage so even more costs.
I understand that oil pressure and oil temp can be use to figure out the oil viscosity which can be used to figure out if the oil needs changing.
Does anyone have any idea if it is possible with the information I have and if it is the best ways to do it?
sbridgey said:
Well I have no control over whether the vehicle is actually serviced, i am just supposed to use the data provided to produce estimate the optimum point for an oil change.
Of course i suggested that following the manufacturer recommendations but no no no we can do it better, yeah right!
Without analysis of the oil on multiple vehicles and knowing their operating conditions over the life of that oil, then any estimations you will be giving will be purely made up anyway.Of course i suggested that following the manufacturer recommendations but no no no we can do it better, yeah right!
Plus different oils will have different lifespans too.
So you may as well just make the whole thing up.
And if the vehicles are under manufacturers warranty, then you really dont have a lot of choice as to when they get serviced if you want to maintain that warranty.
stevieturbo said:
Without analysis of the oil on multiple vehicles and knowing their operating conditions over the life of that oil, then any estimations you will be giving will be purely made up anyway.
Plus different oils will have different lifespans too.
So you may as well just make the whole thing up.
And if the vehicles are under manufacturers warranty, then you really dont have a lot of choice as to when they get serviced if you want to maintain that warranty.
We know how the vehicle was being used (we are a telematics company so store all the data about how the vehicle is driven etc.)Plus different oils will have different lifespans too.
So you may as well just make the whole thing up.
And if the vehicles are under manufacturers warranty, then you really dont have a lot of choice as to when they get serviced if you want to maintain that warranty.
I agree with all of your points but when you are working with people that don't understand vehicle mechanics and how engines work it is very difficult to convince them that it can't be done so all of what has been said in this thread is useful for me.
sbridgey said:
We know how the vehicle was being used (we are a telematics company so store all the data about how the vehicle is driven etc.)
I agree with all of your points but when you are working with people that don't understand vehicle mechanics and how engines work it is very difficult to convince them that it can't be done so all of what has been said in this thread is useful for me.
Just make it all up, show them some graphs, baffle them with BS....and of course dont forget your disclaimer that any deviation from manufacturers recommendations may result in engine damage and will result in any warranties being voided.I agree with all of your points but when you are working with people that don't understand vehicle mechanics and how engines work it is very difficult to convince them that it can't be done so all of what has been said in this thread is useful for me.
After all, you may know how the vehicle appears to be driven. But you have no idea of the engines internal components, you have no idea about the filters performance, and you have no idea about the oils performance.
Really...how much is an oil change ? If they are that tight fisted just tell them not to bother servicing them at all. Chances are they will get away with it.
After all, many main dealers dont even bother their arse carrying out proper servicing.
It would be straight forward enough to do, but take a long time to collate the facts making it pretty useless as after you've done it they will change the motors for ones of different specifications!
Send samples off for analysis and take the oil companies advice.
You would have to send samples of the same oil taken at different mileages at and after the car manufacturers recommended change intervals.
If you put a high quality fully synthetic in which exceeds the manufacturers recommendations then you could well find you get more miles before changing it.
Send samples off for analysis and take the oil companies advice.
You would have to send samples of the same oil taken at different mileages at and after the car manufacturers recommended change intervals.
If you put a high quality fully synthetic in which exceeds the manufacturers recommendations then you could well find you get more miles before changing it.
My Suzuki Drz 436 every 500-600 miles now done 40,000 miles. Just sold ...
Honda Africa Twin every 500-1000 miles 35000 miles a right peach of a engine ...
98 Passat TDI 110 every 5000 miles. Sold it with 160000 miles sweet as ...
Currant 2004 Passat TDI 130 every 3-5000 miles 153000 miles and sweet as ...
Honda Africa Twin every 500-1000 miles 35000 miles a right peach of a engine ...
98 Passat TDI 110 every 5000 miles. Sold it with 160000 miles sweet as ...
Currant 2004 Passat TDI 130 every 3-5000 miles 153000 miles and sweet as ...
Monty Zoomer said:
stevieturbo said:
So you may as well just make the whole thing up.
That's what the manufacturers do...
If I understand correctly, work are asking you to predict a what point a range of vehicles are going to need an oil change based on:
- Oil Pressure
- Oil Temperature
- Engine Revs
- Road Speed
- Vehicle Mileage
The best move would be to google the service intervals for the required vehicles, change the oil and then follow the manufacturers recommendations from there.
Oil should be changed on service life profile. It is shipped basic and slowly goes acid due to combustion product blow by. This is worse in stop start use where it never reaches design operating temperature. If you have the telematic data you should be able to make something up based on total mileage and number of ignition on/off cyles.
Blowby will get worse as the car ages and it goes through more cycles so again you could factor that in. I would do some example sums and see what you think about the answers. If you get numbers suggesting within 100 miles for hard cases and up to 5000 for low mileage easy life examples i would think these would be arguable in a court of law. You will be continuing to collect data as well of course.
Similarly oil filters actually improve with age before starting to clog totally, so I can see some good savings to be had in a large fleet some from getting value out of the existing consumables and some from exploiting the oil at its optimum acidity.
I have PMd you as well.
Blowby will get worse as the car ages and it goes through more cycles so again you could factor that in. I would do some example sums and see what you think about the answers. If you get numbers suggesting within 100 miles for hard cases and up to 5000 for low mileage easy life examples i would think these would be arguable in a court of law. You will be continuing to collect data as well of course.
Similarly oil filters actually improve with age before starting to clog totally, so I can see some good savings to be had in a large fleet some from getting value out of the existing consumables and some from exploiting the oil at its optimum acidity.
I have PMd you as well.
SMGB said:
Oil should be changed on service life profile. It is shipped basic and slowly goes acid due to combustion product blow by. This is worse in stop start use where it never reaches design operating temperature. If you have the telematic data you should be able to make something up based on total mileage and number of ignition on/off cyles.
Blowby will get worse as the car ages and it goes through more cycles so again you could factor that in. I would do some example sums and see what you think about the answers. If you get numbers suggesting within 100 miles for hard cases and up to 5000 for low mileage easy life examples i would think these would be arguable in a court of law. You will be continuing to collect data as well of course.
Similarly oil filters actually improve with age before starting to clog totally, so I can see some good savings to be had in a large fleet some from getting value out of the existing consumables and some from exploiting the oil at its optimum acidity.
I have PMd you as well.
Thanks,Blowby will get worse as the car ages and it goes through more cycles so again you could factor that in. I would do some example sums and see what you think about the answers. If you get numbers suggesting within 100 miles for hard cases and up to 5000 for low mileage easy life examples i would think these would be arguable in a court of law. You will be continuing to collect data as well of course.
Similarly oil filters actually improve with age before starting to clog totally, so I can see some good savings to be had in a large fleet some from getting value out of the existing consumables and some from exploiting the oil at its optimum acidity.
I have PMd you as well.
I have not recieved your PM, well I have nothing in my email inbox.
sbridgey said:
Thanks,
I have not recieved your PM, well I have nothing in my email inbox.
Probably in your spam folder. I use .com on here. Put the ampersand in and we should be in touch and I'm immune from email harvestors. I have not recieved your PM, well I have nothing in my email inbox.
I would also recomend you start off with a cautious regime and then get bolder as you get data, a max mileage/time to first service as vehicles come on the fleet and you can crank it up as confidence, and data, grow. You could also do some back of an envelope sums, what does it cost you including goodwill if a customer toasts an engine v cost of services and how many you might save. You will have a lot of history there on this. Anyway see if you can email me.
Edited by SMGB on Friday 11th January 11:56
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