Detuning a mapped setup
Discussion
bencollins said:
Looking at a car which has a k sereies turbo tuned to 210hp, Emerald ECU with 3 stage map.
But wont pass an emissions test where I live.
What are the options?
Im guessing a new map, which probably costs a lot!
Thanks in advance.
Emissions will have nothing to do with the turbo.But wont pass an emissions test where I live.
What are the options?
Im guessing a new map, which probably costs a lot!
Thanks in advance.
Where do you live, and what emissions do you have to pass ? And no, alterations to the map to pass the test should not cost a fortune. But a lot will depend on the complete package, and the exact emissions criteria you must meet.
Normlly a bit of leaning off at load site 0, and speed sites 1000RPM and between 2500 and 3500 coupled with setting closed loop in those areas will do the trick.
Air leaks in the exhaust can sometimes create a few problems.
I have nursed around 100 Emerald equipped enginea through the MOT and so far have not had one failure.
Dave
Air leaks in the exhaust can sometimes create a few problems.
I have nursed around 100 Emerald equipped enginea through the MOT and so far have not had one failure.
Dave
Thank you for all the replies
The test to pass will be whatever the standard set up is. i.e. according to the Cert of Conformity for a Louts 1.8K
I Would have thought a 1.8T K (rover 75) has the same emissions in std set up.
All the extra gubbins etc, intercooler should only help (or?) so maybe just the original throttle body (or just original injector?), plus the original or new map?.
From the advert
"Engine- 1.8 Rover K series turbo conversion using the factory turbocharged engine from the Rover 75. This was a low mileage engine having only covered approx 20,000 miles. Emerald ECU with 3 stage map. Mapped by Dave Walker. Charge cooled. Custom race spec stainless steel exhaust manifold and system inc. race cat ( all very high quality). Alloy air box assembly with foam filter. Coil pack conversion. Polished stainless steel air intake pipe and turbo boost pipe. Silicone hoses. Alloy large capacity F1 spec radiator with twin fan upgrade. Cool running thermostat. Recent new turbo charger (brand new unit, not reconditioned). Setrab oil cooler. Remote oil filter housing. Nimbus heatshield on bulkhead with additional gold leaf and gold leaf to underside of engine cover. Polished VVC alluminiun inlet manifold. Polished cam cover. Custom stainless coil pack cover. Recent upgraded headgasket. Cambelt kit and water pump. Just had oil and filter change and new spark plugs."
stevieturbo said:
Where do you live, and what emissions do you have to pass ?
Live in Sweden, this is the car: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111018362406?_trksid=p51...The test to pass will be whatever the standard set up is. i.e. according to the Cert of Conformity for a Louts 1.8K
I Would have thought a 1.8T K (rover 75) has the same emissions in std set up.
All the extra gubbins etc, intercooler should only help (or?) so maybe just the original throttle body (or just original injector?), plus the original or new map?.
From the advert
"Engine- 1.8 Rover K series turbo conversion using the factory turbocharged engine from the Rover 75. This was a low mileage engine having only covered approx 20,000 miles. Emerald ECU with 3 stage map. Mapped by Dave Walker. Charge cooled. Custom race spec stainless steel exhaust manifold and system inc. race cat ( all very high quality). Alloy air box assembly with foam filter. Coil pack conversion. Polished stainless steel air intake pipe and turbo boost pipe. Silicone hoses. Alloy large capacity F1 spec radiator with twin fan upgrade. Cool running thermostat. Recent new turbo charger (brand new unit, not reconditioned). Setrab oil cooler. Remote oil filter housing. Nimbus heatshield on bulkhead with additional gold leaf and gold leaf to underside of engine cover. Polished VVC alluminiun inlet manifold. Polished cam cover. Custom stainless coil pack cover. Recent upgraded headgasket. Cambelt kit and water pump. Just had oil and filter change and new spark plugs."
Chances are you'll struggle to get this through, but I'm not saying it's impossible by any means. The Emerald ECU is extremely good, but it's aimed at a trackday/race market so doesn't have all the emissions test bells and whistles found on a production car ECU - for instance the closed loop lambda control won't be aimed at NOx purging the cats, there's probably no specific controls for fuel evaporation management etc... Most of this can be worked around depending on test requirements. Do you know the exact requirements of the test?
In the UK we have to meet a fairly tight lambda (mixture) target and have virtually no CO at light load. This is an easy test to get a car to pass. I gather in some of Europe the test is conducted under heavier engine loads, so is more tricky. But again I suspect not impossible. You should be able to work out where in the map the car operates during the emissions test and apply the necessary changes with a bit of trial and error and help from a friendly garage.
In the UK we have to meet a fairly tight lambda (mixture) target and have virtually no CO at light load. This is an easy test to get a car to pass. I gather in some of Europe the test is conducted under heavier engine loads, so is more tricky. But again I suspect not impossible. You should be able to work out where in the map the car operates during the emissions test and apply the necessary changes with a bit of trial and error and help from a friendly garage.
If the engine itself is standard, ie cams, head etc. And it retains OEM catalytic convertor has closed loop narrowband lambda in place...
Then in theory it shouldnt be that hard to pass the basic EU wide emissions test at idle and fast idle. ie sub 0.3% CO and less than 200ppm HCC
But that's IF that is the test you have to pass, and IF the important emissions control components are still there. ie lambda and catalytic convertor.
So it is possible, but there are lots of if's there that you need to establish first.
Without knowing the exactly test criteria...who knows. But I'm sure the engine hardware and ecu hardware are capable of being made to pass the test.
Then in theory it shouldnt be that hard to pass the basic EU wide emissions test at idle and fast idle. ie sub 0.3% CO and less than 200ppm HCC
But that's IF that is the test you have to pass, and IF the important emissions control components are still there. ie lambda and catalytic convertor.
So it is possible, but there are lots of if's there that you need to establish first.
Without knowing the exactly test criteria...who knows. But I'm sure the engine hardware and ecu hardware are capable of being made to pass the test.
bencollins said:
Thanks to the comments on this topic, I went for it and have purchased the car. Ill try to return in a couple of months to let you know how I got on with everything.
If you are travelling to the UK to buy and collect the car.As suggested above, I would strongly suggest speaking to Dave Walker from Emerald, and if need be take the car to him and discuss the emissions requirements. He would be able to sort the car out for you before taking it back home.
it would make sense and save a lot of hassle.
Car almost in Sweden (now in Denmark), but something has gone wrong and im not sure what.
Sometimes cruises okish between 50-75mph if accelerator depressed very slightly, but in normal traffic requires full throttle (which produces only modest power) or nothing happens. quite scary in traffic and difficult to drive.
Looked at the throttle position sensor but seems ok, throttle cable itself rotates the throttle levr smoothly.
Possible cause : lightly dragged the bottom of car across a rubber speed bump, no obvious damage and has aluminium panels under (elise).
Any ideas engine gurus?
Thanks in advance for any answers.
is there a boost sensor that could be problematic?
I really have no idea!
by the way engine is as above a turbo k from a rover 75 with and emerald chip - the car worked great for 600 miles, rocket fast.
Sometimes cruises okish between 50-75mph if accelerator depressed very slightly, but in normal traffic requires full throttle (which produces only modest power) or nothing happens. quite scary in traffic and difficult to drive.
Looked at the throttle position sensor but seems ok, throttle cable itself rotates the throttle levr smoothly.
Possible cause : lightly dragged the bottom of car across a rubber speed bump, no obvious damage and has aluminium panels under (elise).
Any ideas engine gurus?
Thanks in advance for any answers.
is there a boost sensor that could be problematic?
I really have no idea!
by the way engine is as above a turbo k from a rover 75 with and emerald chip - the car worked great for 600 miles, rocket fast.
Edited by bencollins on Monday 29th April 17:58
ahah awesome steve thanks, now you mention it the turbo does seem a bit confused, i will check and report back! ta.
It feels like fuel is struggling to get through.
also i nearly ran out of fuel as the elise fuel gauge reads about 10litres too much.
maybe that blocked the fuel filter? ill have a google to see where that is.
It feels like fuel is struggling to get through.
also i nearly ran out of fuel as the elise fuel gauge reads about 10litres too much.
maybe that blocked the fuel filter? ill have a google to see where that is.
probably just me interested in this but found : http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.p... courtesy of a gentleman Colin Robson Rover 75 fanatic 
1.8 Turbo specific issues
Not too many issues effecting the 1.8 Turbo specifically.
Overboosting/Underboosting
Obviously with the engine having a turbo fitted you can have issues, and they start around 2500 to 3000rpm, the hesitation is only around 2600 to 2800 under hard acceleration, sort of like a splutter in power then whoosh, your off!
The problem is typicially the black vacume hose where it joins the turbo,, the rubber joining piece at the end can become oversized due to the heat of the turbo and surrounding area.
It has a spring clip around it to maintain the seal, this doesnt work allowing a loss of vacuum and wastegate problems leading to ignition cutting out (ECU safemode) hence the hesitation.
A new set of solenoid vacuum hoses, three of which to replace around £35 and you will be back to normal.
Rough running / M.A.F
If your 1.8 Turbo is running a little "lumpy" or "rough", with revs at idle searching in and around 750 to 900 plus up to 4500 rpm its great but then lacks instead of pulling to 6700rpm then your looking at a M.A.F failure (providing you have checked the hoses above into the turbo).
text
The arm between the vacuum actuator and the waste gate can seize where it pivots on the waste gate lever. This will cause an over boost, and usually will temporarily cut the ignition to protect the engine giving you a stall or a safe mode activation (where the car runs very slowly). Again, a simple clean of the pivot and applied a high temp anti seize spray available from your local motor factors will resolve this providing your actuator hasnt failed outright but the car would display an engine fault light if it does.
I reckon its that! will report on Wed once found a place to play with the car.
Its horrible to get at being elise mid mounted but some axle stands purchased today, means hopefully from underneath it is easier (or via the panel after removing the front seat).
Additionally old spark plugs, failing spark leads an incorrect spark plug gapping can create the same or similar feeling.
Pictures of a wastegate actuator (but not the rover one), fingers crossed:
1.8 Turbo specific issues
Not too many issues effecting the 1.8 Turbo specifically.
Overboosting/Underboosting
Obviously with the engine having a turbo fitted you can have issues, and they start around 2500 to 3000rpm, the hesitation is only around 2600 to 2800 under hard acceleration, sort of like a splutter in power then whoosh, your off!
The problem is typicially the black vacume hose where it joins the turbo,, the rubber joining piece at the end can become oversized due to the heat of the turbo and surrounding area.
It has a spring clip around it to maintain the seal, this doesnt work allowing a loss of vacuum and wastegate problems leading to ignition cutting out (ECU safemode) hence the hesitation.
A new set of solenoid vacuum hoses, three of which to replace around £35 and you will be back to normal.
Rough running / M.A.F
If your 1.8 Turbo is running a little "lumpy" or "rough", with revs at idle searching in and around 750 to 900 plus up to 4500 rpm its great but then lacks instead of pulling to 6700rpm then your looking at a M.A.F failure (providing you have checked the hoses above into the turbo).
text
The arm between the vacuum actuator and the waste gate can seize where it pivots on the waste gate lever. This will cause an over boost, and usually will temporarily cut the ignition to protect the engine giving you a stall or a safe mode activation (where the car runs very slowly). Again, a simple clean of the pivot and applied a high temp anti seize spray available from your local motor factors will resolve this providing your actuator hasnt failed outright but the car would display an engine fault light if it does.
I reckon its that! will report on Wed once found a place to play with the car.
Its horrible to get at being elise mid mounted but some axle stands purchased today, means hopefully from underneath it is easier (or via the panel after removing the front seat).Additionally old spark plugs, failing spark leads an incorrect spark plug gapping can create the same or similar feeling.
Pictures of a wastegate actuator (but not the rover one), fingers crossed:
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