Vauxhall astra intermitent none start and eml on
Discussion
Hi
Plese can somebody help shed some light on this problem. I am a small car dealer and i currently have 2 vauxhall astras back in with warranty issues that have the same problem. Both cars have an intermitent starting issue sometimes starting fine, sometimes turning the key with no turnover at all and sometimes the cars will turn over a few times then just die. Both cars have the eml on displaying the same codes of engine missfire and multiple missfire. I have changed the coil pack and plugs on one and this hasnt fixed the problem so i dont want to try this with the second and waste money. I assume this is a common problem as i have 2 with the same fault although i have been selling astras for a few years and never encounterd this problem before. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Plese can somebody help shed some light on this problem. I am a small car dealer and i currently have 2 vauxhall astras back in with warranty issues that have the same problem. Both cars have an intermitent starting issue sometimes starting fine, sometimes turning the key with no turnover at all and sometimes the cars will turn over a few times then just die. Both cars have the eml on displaying the same codes of engine missfire and multiple missfire. I have changed the coil pack and plugs on one and this hasnt fixed the problem so i dont want to try this with the second and waste money. I assume this is a common problem as i have 2 with the same fault although i have been selling astras for a few years and never encounterd this problem before. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Mickykp said:
Hi
Plese can somebody help shed some light on this problem. I am a small car dealer and i currently have 2 vauxhall astras back in with warranty issues that have the same problem. Both cars have an intermitent starting issue sometimes starting fine, sometimes turning the key with no turnover at all and sometimes the cars will turn over a few times then just die. Both cars have the eml on displaying the same codes of engine missfire and multiple missfire. I have changed the coil pack and plugs on one and this hasnt fixed the problem so i dont want to try this with the second and waste money. I assume this is a common problem as i have 2 with the same fault although i have been selling astras for a few years and never encounterd this problem before. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Your description is too vague, you dont offer the fault codes. You dont state if any other lights are lit or flashing. You dont state what year or engine model etcPlese can somebody help shed some light on this problem. I am a small car dealer and i currently have 2 vauxhall astras back in with warranty issues that have the same problem. Both cars have an intermitent starting issue sometimes starting fine, sometimes turning the key with no turnover at all and sometimes the cars will turn over a few times then just die. Both cars have the eml on displaying the same codes of engine missfire and multiple missfire. I have changed the coil pack and plugs on one and this hasnt fixed the problem so i dont want to try this with the second and waste money. I assume this is a common problem as i have 2 with the same fault although i have been selling astras for a few years and never encounterd this problem before. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks
You havent listed if any actual proper fault diagnosis has been undertaken etc etc
Semi-random changing of parts doesnt qualify for fault diagnosis
Clearly if you turn the key/attempt to start and nothing happens, then it has nothing to do with the ignition coils or plugs.
Really, you are shooting in the dark here.
Based on the above, a good course of action would be to state your locality and ask if there are any competent garages near you that could assist.
Hi.
Sorry pretty new to this forum stuff. Both cars are currently with my local garage who do all of my work and diagnostics. When the cars are started the eml is on permanantly and no other lights come on or flash. Unfortunatley im unsure of the fault codes but i do know from what the mechanic tells me that there are 3 codes all relating to missfire which is why they first suggested coil pack and plugs. Both cars drive absoloulty fine once started. The mechanic is suggesting that it may be a fault with the ecu but this is a very expensive option and do not want to spend that sort of money to find out that it dosent fix the problem. My main objective here is to get these cars fixed and back to the customers asap but as my mechanic cannot guarantee that an ecu will fix the problem i thaught id post on here and hopefully find somebody that has encountered the same problem and been able to fix it.
Thanks
Sorry pretty new to this forum stuff. Both cars are currently with my local garage who do all of my work and diagnostics. When the cars are started the eml is on permanantly and no other lights come on or flash. Unfortunatley im unsure of the fault codes but i do know from what the mechanic tells me that there are 3 codes all relating to missfire which is why they first suggested coil pack and plugs. Both cars drive absoloulty fine once started. The mechanic is suggesting that it may be a fault with the ecu but this is a very expensive option and do not want to spend that sort of money to find out that it dosent fix the problem. My main objective here is to get these cars fixed and back to the customers asap but as my mechanic cannot guarantee that an ecu will fix the problem i thaught id post on here and hopefully find somebody that has encountered the same problem and been able to fix it.
Thanks
IMO, you need to find another mechanic.
For someone to so readily suggest an ecu fault, usually means they are clueless about how they work and how to diagnose faults.
Yes they can go faulty, but it is very rare. They can also be sent off for testing. Although this can be hit or miss.
And again, your statement about nothing at all happening when attempting to start. ie engine not cranking. Again, any mechanic who changes coils and plugs under such circumstances, really should not be working at cars.
That would be like plugging the television into the plug socket because the microwave wont work.
The problem could be as simple as a duff battery, to wiring or any other electrical problem or one of the many control modules fitted to these cars.
Someone with proper equipment and knowledge should be able to interrogate and test these though.
A good diagnostic forum is the BBA-Reman forum. You would be wiser to ask for a reputable mechanic close to you on that forum as opposed to asking for help.
I only say that, because in order to get remote help, you need to be very very specific about the problem, and be capable of understanding faults and any procedures the people ask of you.
For someone to so readily suggest an ecu fault, usually means they are clueless about how they work and how to diagnose faults.
Yes they can go faulty, but it is very rare. They can also be sent off for testing. Although this can be hit or miss.
And again, your statement about nothing at all happening when attempting to start. ie engine not cranking. Again, any mechanic who changes coils and plugs under such circumstances, really should not be working at cars.
That would be like plugging the television into the plug socket because the microwave wont work.
The problem could be as simple as a duff battery, to wiring or any other electrical problem or one of the many control modules fitted to these cars.
Someone with proper equipment and knowledge should be able to interrogate and test these though.
A good diagnostic forum is the BBA-Reman forum. You would be wiser to ask for a reputable mechanic close to you on that forum as opposed to asking for help.
I only say that, because in order to get remote help, you need to be very very specific about the problem, and be capable of understanding faults and any procedures the people ask of you.
stevieturbo said:
For someone to so readily suggest an ecu fault, usually means they are clueless about how they work and how to diagnose faults.
Absolutely.What I would do in a situation like that is to wait until there is a non start event, and try fault code reading. If the scanner can't connect to the ECU to read out basic data, then I'd be looking at the ECU or ECU power supply, but otherwise, if there is an EML light, that would mean a code would be stored.
Even if it is a bad power supply, the majority of ECUs will store a code for the permanent power supply shutting off.
IMO you will need better than a generic code reader, and one that fully interrogates the Vauxhall ecu.
Of course, normal basic checks can always be done. Like checking for power at the starter etc.
Of course anyone would assume this "mechanic" would already have done such basic tests...sounds like he hasnt though if he's blaming the ecu
Of course, normal basic checks can always be done. Like checking for power at the starter etc.
Of course anyone would assume this "mechanic" would already have done such basic tests...sounds like he hasnt though if he's blaming the ecu
A 2006 Astra H, Mk5 1.6 XEP, (Petrol) odometer at +/- 235 000km. "Intermittent no crank if key to Start Position with no indication of issues."
Sometimes this vehicle would not start if key turned to start position. No warning lights of any sorts illuminated or flashing. Next attempt or a few more attempts and it would start with no indication of any issues and then this issue would not reoccur for sometimes weeks or months. No cutout while driving ever experienced, only if wanting to start. Batteries in Key FOB were measure at more than 3 Volts.
Just recently the car's "Emission Control Fault" light illuminated and stayed on while driving (Engine Symbol) A pedal test indicated six ecn code groups. The car would still start and returned home 75km with out any trouble. Codes groups as follows:
P0115, Radiator Outlet Coolant Temperature Sensor Circuit High Voltage Engine Cooling B-011
P0115, Radiator Outlet Coolant Temperature Sensor Circuit Open or Low Voltage Engine Cooling B-011
P1482, Fan Control 2 Circuit High Voltage Engine Cooling B-012
P1482, Fan Control 2 Circuit Low Voltage Engine Cooling B-004
P1483, Fan Control 3 Circuit High Voltage Engine Cooling B-012,
P1483, Fan Control 3 Circuit Low Voltage Engine Cooling B-004
P1614, Wrong Transponder Key Immobilizer B-006
P1614, Immobilizer Wrong Signal Received Immobilizer B-008
P1616, CIM (Steering Column Module) Wrong Environment Identifier Immobiliser B-006
U2108, Invalid Data from ABS (Anti-Lock Brake System) ABS/TC/ESP (Vehicle Dynamic System) B-018
Some fuses we thought maybe related to the codes were checked in the Engine bay fuse box at home. The Ignition was off while checking fuses but the battery had not been disconnected. Only one 5 amp fuse was blown which was replaced not to blow again, some "Courtesy Light", but the interior lights, trunk light and glove box light still worked though, the fuses at the back were then checked and found to be all in order.
The Emission Control Fault lamp was still Illuminated after checking fuses but now the car would not start at all. Some more extensive testing was then done, this while the battery was disconnected, Negative first then Positive. Each relay coil was enregized and it's contact checked with multi-meter and all fuses front and rear were checked. All were in order, the battery reconnected, Positive first then Negative, still no start. All initial display indications on dash were correct. Battery voltage was suspected, measured at 12,51V. According to vehicle manual this was a poor charge. Battery was charged at 3500mA for four hours at 13,9Volts. After reaching full charge battery disconnected measured 13,6Volts initially, after 8 hours overnight this had dropped to 12,9Volts. Reconnected to vehicle, still no start. The battery was still suspected as putting the Main driving beams on High beams for 30 seconds caused the battery voltage to drop to 12,1Volts. Battery replaced with new and still no start. New Battery voltage at 13.2volts and no drop with High beam test.
The Starter "Control wire" (small wire also connected to starter was disconnected and insulated at the starter) and a temporary wire connected to the terminal and then used briefly directly on battery + to start the car, no problem and car ran without any issue besides the Emission Control Fault lamp illuminated.
So the starter worked and car ran if wire connected briefly to 12Volts. At this time we decided to take the car to the auto electrician to diagnose the codes. I unfortunately reconnected the "Starter Control wire" I had insulated at the starter, both the temporary wire I had used to connect directly to battery to test and the Control wire were now connected to the starter Control Terminal. I think this may have been a mistake but I needed the wire connected to start the car to get to auto electrician. The ecn codes were all cleared at the auto electrician and the Emission Control Fault lamp went off, no more ecn codes with pedal test present. The car however still did not start with key. The auto electrician claimed the key contact at the barrel maybe the problem, so I decided to return and check.
The key contact was check and found to be working fine. The wiring loom connected to the rear of the steering was disconnected and continuity checked to the starter Control terminal. This was found to be in order. The pin on the connector at rear of steering identified. So the fault was now suspected to be inside the CIM. Videos of the ribbon connector failures made me think it maybe an issue. The CIM was disassembled and the 10 way ribbon checked from end to end with no problems.
So I'm now working on the electronic circuit board trying to trace the tracks from the key contact side and the Pin connected to the starter and check components. So far I've got the CIM main MCU chip datasheet and user manuals and the Immobilizers chip. I have noted that if there was an Immobilizer issue the Engine / Transmission Electronics warning ,lamp (Car with spanner through it) will be illuminated. This is not the case at the moment. Both sets of keys are also able to lock unlock the vehicle. One thing I need to mention is that once car is locked the alarm is not working anymore... let me go test that again, as I read if the car is locked with key inside, the alarm will not operate.... so I have to lock the car with rear window open (rear has manual operated windows) to try set off alarm... Does this indicate that the immobilizer/alarm is not functioning properly and therefore no start output as the immobilzer is not working properly... but no indication of this fault.
Sometimes this vehicle would not start if key turned to start position. No warning lights of any sorts illuminated or flashing. Next attempt or a few more attempts and it would start with no indication of any issues and then this issue would not reoccur for sometimes weeks or months. No cutout while driving ever experienced, only if wanting to start. Batteries in Key FOB were measure at more than 3 Volts.
Just recently the car's "Emission Control Fault" light illuminated and stayed on while driving (Engine Symbol) A pedal test indicated six ecn code groups. The car would still start and returned home 75km with out any trouble. Codes groups as follows:
P0115, Radiator Outlet Coolant Temperature Sensor Circuit High Voltage Engine Cooling B-011
P0115, Radiator Outlet Coolant Temperature Sensor Circuit Open or Low Voltage Engine Cooling B-011
P1482, Fan Control 2 Circuit High Voltage Engine Cooling B-012
P1482, Fan Control 2 Circuit Low Voltage Engine Cooling B-004
P1483, Fan Control 3 Circuit High Voltage Engine Cooling B-012,
P1483, Fan Control 3 Circuit Low Voltage Engine Cooling B-004
P1614, Wrong Transponder Key Immobilizer B-006
P1614, Immobilizer Wrong Signal Received Immobilizer B-008
P1616, CIM (Steering Column Module) Wrong Environment Identifier Immobiliser B-006
U2108, Invalid Data from ABS (Anti-Lock Brake System) ABS/TC/ESP (Vehicle Dynamic System) B-018
Some fuses we thought maybe related to the codes were checked in the Engine bay fuse box at home. The Ignition was off while checking fuses but the battery had not been disconnected. Only one 5 amp fuse was blown which was replaced not to blow again, some "Courtesy Light", but the interior lights, trunk light and glove box light still worked though, the fuses at the back were then checked and found to be all in order.
The Emission Control Fault lamp was still Illuminated after checking fuses but now the car would not start at all. Some more extensive testing was then done, this while the battery was disconnected, Negative first then Positive. Each relay coil was enregized and it's contact checked with multi-meter and all fuses front and rear were checked. All were in order, the battery reconnected, Positive first then Negative, still no start. All initial display indications on dash were correct. Battery voltage was suspected, measured at 12,51V. According to vehicle manual this was a poor charge. Battery was charged at 3500mA for four hours at 13,9Volts. After reaching full charge battery disconnected measured 13,6Volts initially, after 8 hours overnight this had dropped to 12,9Volts. Reconnected to vehicle, still no start. The battery was still suspected as putting the Main driving beams on High beams for 30 seconds caused the battery voltage to drop to 12,1Volts. Battery replaced with new and still no start. New Battery voltage at 13.2volts and no drop with High beam test.
The Starter "Control wire" (small wire also connected to starter was disconnected and insulated at the starter) and a temporary wire connected to the terminal and then used briefly directly on battery + to start the car, no problem and car ran without any issue besides the Emission Control Fault lamp illuminated.
So the starter worked and car ran if wire connected briefly to 12Volts. At this time we decided to take the car to the auto electrician to diagnose the codes. I unfortunately reconnected the "Starter Control wire" I had insulated at the starter, both the temporary wire I had used to connect directly to battery to test and the Control wire were now connected to the starter Control Terminal. I think this may have been a mistake but I needed the wire connected to start the car to get to auto electrician. The ecn codes were all cleared at the auto electrician and the Emission Control Fault lamp went off, no more ecn codes with pedal test present. The car however still did not start with key. The auto electrician claimed the key contact at the barrel maybe the problem, so I decided to return and check.
The key contact was check and found to be working fine. The wiring loom connected to the rear of the steering was disconnected and continuity checked to the starter Control terminal. This was found to be in order. The pin on the connector at rear of steering identified. So the fault was now suspected to be inside the CIM. Videos of the ribbon connector failures made me think it maybe an issue. The CIM was disassembled and the 10 way ribbon checked from end to end with no problems.
So I'm now working on the electronic circuit board trying to trace the tracks from the key contact side and the Pin connected to the starter and check components. So far I've got the CIM main MCU chip datasheet and user manuals and the Immobilizers chip. I have noted that if there was an Immobilizer issue the Engine / Transmission Electronics warning ,lamp (Car with spanner through it) will be illuminated. This is not the case at the moment. Both sets of keys are also able to lock unlock the vehicle. One thing I need to mention is that once car is locked the alarm is not working anymore... let me go test that again, as I read if the car is locked with key inside, the alarm will not operate.... so I have to lock the car with rear window open (rear has manual operated windows) to try set off alarm... Does this indicate that the immobilizer/alarm is not functioning properly and therefore no start output as the immobilzer is not working properly... but no indication of this fault.
Apologies for the detailed information. The last sentence however does ask "Does this indicate that the immobilizer/alarm is not functioning properly and therefore no start output as the immobilizer is not working properly... but no indication of this fault?
Can anyone confirm the Astra H key barrel contacts across the six pins for each position?
I've confirmed a contact closes on two pins but realize that the other pins maybe monitored and at fault if turned to Start.
There are two more pins which if measured read 60 ohms, presumably from the KEY FOB, can any info on these two contacts be provided?
Thanks
Can anyone confirm the Astra H key barrel contacts across the six pins for each position?
I've confirmed a contact closes on two pins but realize that the other pins maybe monitored and at fault if turned to Start.
There are two more pins which if measured read 60 ohms, presumably from the KEY FOB, can any info on these two contacts be provided?
Thanks
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