aftermarket ecu?
Discussion
With the motor racing infrastructure that we have in the UK, I would have expected some tuning company to be offering aftermarket ECUs which could be programmed to replace the manufacturer kit. But I havent come across them
Is there some company doing this? If not, why not? Is it really that difficult? And how do tuning companies handle ECU issues.
Just suppose I build a kit car using a modern BMW V8. The car will have a different weight, maybe no abs or traction control. A different exhaust requirig a different lambda sensor map etc. So how is this handled and by whom?
Is there some company doing this? If not, why not? Is it really that difficult? And how do tuning companies handle ECU issues.
Just suppose I build a kit car using a modern BMW V8. The car will have a different weight, maybe no abs or traction control. A different exhaust requirig a different lambda sensor map etc. So how is this handled and by whom?
bordseye said:
With the motor racing infrastructure that we have in the UK, I would have expected some tuning company to be offering aftermarket ECUs which could be programmed to replace the manufacturer kit.
Yes, there is a nationwide industry of dyno operators, and tuning specialists who use them to remap OEM and aftermarket replacement systems.bordseye said:
But I havent come across them
Have you looked? A search for 'tuning company' turns up literally hundreds of results.bordseye said:
With the motor racing infrastructure that we have in the UK, I would have expected some tuning company to be offering aftermarket ECUs which could be programmed to replace the manufacturer kit. But I havent come across them
Is there some company doing this? If not, why not? Is it really that difficult? And how do tuning companies handle ECU issues.
Just suppose I build a kit car using a modern BMW V8. The car will have a different weight, maybe no abs or traction control. A different exhaust requirig a different lambda sensor map etc. So how is this handled and by whom?
Such a random post.Is there some company doing this? If not, why not? Is it really that difficult? And how do tuning companies handle ECU issues.
Just suppose I build a kit car using a modern BMW V8. The car will have a different weight, maybe no abs or traction control. A different exhaust requirig a different lambda sensor map etc. So how is this handled and by whom?
Presumably you havent even attempted to look ?
Motor racing and domestic use kit cars are very different beasts
Most kit cars don't have ABS or Traction control and so the ECU only needs to run the engine.
Most OEM ECU's are not easy to hack and will not work as they require all sorts of sensors and switches (some will want to see the dash instruments and gearbox) so the kit car builder will use aftermarket programmable ECU's.
This will depend on your capabilities as to how far you want to delve in to this black art, I have successfully installed and programmed several Megajolt ignition only ECU's I'm now looking at Megasquirt but hat is a whole different set of challenges.
The other ECU's such as Omex, Emerald & DTA need a rolling road tuner to tune it for you.
Most kit cars don't have ABS or Traction control and so the ECU only needs to run the engine.
Most OEM ECU's are not easy to hack and will not work as they require all sorts of sensors and switches (some will want to see the dash instruments and gearbox) so the kit car builder will use aftermarket programmable ECU's.
This will depend on your capabilities as to how far you want to delve in to this black art, I have successfully installed and programmed several Megajolt ignition only ECU's I'm now looking at Megasquirt but hat is a whole different set of challenges.
The other ECU's such as Omex, Emerald & DTA need a rolling road tuner to tune it for you.
PaulKemp said:
The other ECU's such as Omex, Emerald & DTA need a rolling road tuner to tune it for you.
Having an expert tune it for you is going to be the quickest and most effective approach, and if you're paying for a professional to do it then it makes sense for them to do it on a dyno. However, all of these brands are also open for you to map yourself if you prefer, and you don't need a dyno to do it.I talked to a tuner in the uk about live mapping my Weber L8 ecu and he wanted to do it on the road. I flat out refused because it is incredibly dangerous trying to map on the road. It's ok if you've got 135bhp but if you've got 500odd bhp you are going to kill yourself.
My engine just being completed will be mapped on an engine dyno on MOTEC M800 with drive by wire, launch, traction, flat shift etc. It will then be tweaked on a chassis dyno.
There's an ecu out there for practically any engine and spec.
My engine just being completed will be mapped on an engine dyno on MOTEC M800 with drive by wire, launch, traction, flat shift etc. It will then be tweaked on a chassis dyno.
There's an ecu out there for practically any engine and spec.
If you are looking for direct swap "plug and play" Syvecs now cover a fair number of applications.
I have to agree, other than syvecs, not too many UK based "swap out" solutions... at least not compared to our cousins in OZ.. (motec, haltec, link etc).
However, all of the above are at least available in the U.K., sounds like you have not looked hard enough.
(Ps.. as far as I am aware the motec m800 "old gold box" is not a direct swap plug and play solution, the later and far superior m1# models are available in this format).
I have to agree, other than syvecs, not too many UK based "swap out" solutions... at least not compared to our cousins in OZ.. (motec, haltec, link etc).
However, all of the above are at least available in the U.K., sounds like you have not looked hard enough.
(Ps.. as far as I am aware the motec m800 "old gold box" is not a direct swap plug and play solution, the later and far superior m1# models are available in this format).
Edited by sl0wlane on Friday 16th December 19:22
sl0wlane said:
If you are looking for direct swap "plug and play" Syvecs now cover a fair number of applications.
I have to agree, other than syvecs, not too many UK based "swap out" solutions... at least not compared to our cousins in OZ.. (motec, haltec, link etc).
However, all of the above are at least available in the U.K., sounds like you have not looked hard enough.
(Ps.. as far as I am aware the motec m800 "old gold box" is not a direct swap plug and play solution, the later and far superior m1# models are).
He hasnt even specified what engine or what controls might be needed...so nothing will be plug and play.I have to agree, other than syvecs, not too many UK based "swap out" solutions... at least not compared to our cousins in OZ.. (motec, haltec, link etc).
However, all of the above are at least available in the U.K., sounds like you have not looked hard enough.
(Ps.. as far as I am aware the motec m800 "old gold box" is not a direct swap plug and play solution, the later and far superior m1# models are).
And he clearly hasnt done any research whatsoever either by the nature of his question ! Not even 30seconds worth of research !
stevieturbo said:
He hasnt even specified what engine or what controls might be needed...so nothing will be plug and play.
And he clearly hasnt done any research whatsoever either by the nature of his question ! Not even 30seconds worth of research !
To be fair, rereading the OPs post... google mate, have you tried it?And he clearly hasnt done any research whatsoever either by the nature of his question ! Not even 30seconds worth of research !
Just about all aftermarket ECU manufacturers will either be able to pre load or email you a base map for most popular engines. Enough to get you up and running, you will then need to go to a rolling road to get it tweaked properly.
Just for reference, I had been using my kit car for 12 months, I then resealed the engine, got the head skimmed etc. Took it to the rolling road where it ran extremely well. With some tweaking of the ignition map he squeezed another 12bhp out of it adjusting the ignition timing alone. That is quite some gain on a 7500rpm, 140bhp, carbed, pushrod engine.
Make no mistake though, aftermarket ECU's are EXPENSIVE! With setup time on the rollers being anywhere from £50-£100/hr it gets very expensive, very quickly. It is the only way to do it properly though. You could go the engine dyno route but is more expensive again. My time on the rollers cost me £150 for the 2 hours I was there, it was worth every single penny.
Just for reference, I had been using my kit car for 12 months, I then resealed the engine, got the head skimmed etc. Took it to the rolling road where it ran extremely well. With some tweaking of the ignition map he squeezed another 12bhp out of it adjusting the ignition timing alone. That is quite some gain on a 7500rpm, 140bhp, carbed, pushrod engine.
Make no mistake though, aftermarket ECU's are EXPENSIVE! With setup time on the rollers being anywhere from £50-£100/hr it gets very expensive, very quickly. It is the only way to do it properly though. You could go the engine dyno route but is more expensive again. My time on the rollers cost me £150 for the 2 hours I was there, it was worth every single penny.
jontysafe said:
I talked to a tuner in the uk about live mapping my Weber L8 ecu and he wanted to do it on the road. I flat out refused because it is incredibly dangerous trying to map on the road. It's ok if you've got 135bhp but if you've got 500odd bhp you are going to kill yourself.
My engine just being completed will be mapped on an engine dyno on MOTEC M800 with drive by wire, launch, traction, flat shift etc. It will then be tweaked on a chassis dyno.
There's an ecu out there for practically any engine and spec.
Your 500bhp in a car weighing over 1000Kg is not that much different to my 170bhp in a 500Kg carMy engine just being completed will be mapped on an engine dyno on MOTEC M800 with drive by wire, launch, traction, flat shift etc. It will then be tweaked on a chassis dyno.
There's an ecu out there for practically any engine and spec.
You don't just jump in and rag it with road tuning give us a bit more credibility.
Base map, slow runs, data log, tweet etc etc etc.
As it happens I also have access to an airfield but that's by the by
Ultimately the tuning should always be finalised on the road or track.
You can only get so far and ensure everything is good when working in false surroundings. ie a dyno or rolling road.
Unless it's like an F1 dyno....but that short of s
t is rather pricey...and even they always do track testing.
And you tend to find anyway, most of the fastest cars are always finalised on the road or track...some might not ever use a dyno.
You can only get so far and ensure everything is good when working in false surroundings. ie a dyno or rolling road.
Unless it's like an F1 dyno....but that short of s
t is rather pricey...and even they always do track testing.And you tend to find anyway, most of the fastest cars are always finalised on the road or track...some might not ever use a dyno.
PaulKemp said:
Your 500bhp in a car weighing over 1000Kg is not that much different to my 170bhp in a 500Kg car
You don't just jump in and rag it with road tuning give us a bit more credibility.
Base map, slow runs, data log, tweet etc etc etc.
As it happens I also have access to an airfield but that's by the by
It weighs 620kgs wet. It's trying to kill you at the best of timesYou don't just jump in and rag it with road tuning give us a bit more credibility.
Base map, slow runs, data log, tweet etc etc etc.
As it happens I also have access to an airfield but that's by the by
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