Cologne 2.9 V6 - can anyone help?

[MisterTee]

Hello all

I’m after some advice/thoughts on a strange rattle which I’ve just noticed on my TVR S3 (pre-cat) which has the Cologne 2.9 V6 and Type 9 gearbox fitted.

The car will start first time (as always) and sounds perfectly normal at idle. It also revs and drives perfectly well, but has started to make a strange rattling noise as the revs are dropping. It sounds like a chain catching on something and seems to be coming from the front near side of the engine.

My uninitiated and semi-informed (I’ve looked through the Haynes manual for the 2.9) view (guess) is that it could be the timing chain tensioner, but I’d welcome others thoughts (I appreciate it’s difficult without actually hearing it).

Are the chain tensioners prone to giving up the ghost? There seemed to be mixed views from the people I spoke to recently at a big TVR meet - some said they are renowned for failing when others didn’t seem to think so.

Any help/ideas would be appreciated before I go spending my hard-earned on something I don’t need to.

Cheers

Andy

[Spathodus77]

Could it be tappets? Do the valve clearances need checking or is it the version of the engine with hydraulic lifters?

Can you hold a stephoscope or something long and hard (oo-err) against various points on the front of the block whilst having your ear pressed to the other end to pin point noise location better? If doing this be careful of getting yourself entangled in the alternator belt.

[MisterTee]

Thanks for your reply.

It’s definitely coming from lower down in the engine than tappets but will do some more investigating, as you suggest.

Cheers

Andy

[Super Slo Mo]

You can get an engine stethoscope, it has a solid prong type thing that you touch against various parts of the engine and it transmits sound remarkably well.
They’re not expensive, probably worth a look.

[MisterTee]

Yeah, I’ve seen them. As you say, not expensive either, so may be worth investing in one.

Thanks

[Boosted LS1]

Super Slo Mo said:

You can get an engine stethoscope, it has a solid prong type thing that you touch against various parts of the engine and it transmits sound remarkably well.
They’re not expensive, probably worth a look.

Or a hosepipe.

[PaulKemp]

Or a long screwdriver
Put your ear to the handle not the sharp end.

It’s more than likely the chain, they are more robust on the 2.9 but still don’t last for ever

[E-bmw]

MisterTee said:

Thanks for your reply.

It’s definitely coming from lower down in the engine than tappets but will do some more investigating, as you suggest.

Cheers

Andy

Isn't the Cologne engine a SOHC with cam in the V rather than OHC?

[Bennachie]

Its a pushrod OHV, not an OHC engine; unless its a Cosworth...........

[MisterTee]

Push rod OHV with cam in the middle of the V, so you’re both right

It’s not a Cosworth

[E-bmw]

Yeah, sorry typo even though I described it correct, obviously I meant to type OHV when I said single can in the V.

[Auntieroll]

IIRC the Cologne V6 has self destructing fibre /plastic GEAR teeth bonded to the cam wheel steel boss.
The engine is non interference ,I seem to recall so no engine damage if ( when) failure occurs.
I would not run the engine any more if I were you, the memory of picking bits of plastic from the nooks any crannies
Is still indelibly ingrained after 35 years !
HTH.

[northwestrecovery]

2.9 has timing chain , 2.3 / 2.8 had fibre wheel .

[Mignon]

Auntieroll said:

IIRC the Cologne V6 has self destructing fibre /plastic GEAR teeth bonded to the cam wheel steel boss.

The 2.8 Cologne in the Capri and early Granadas had the fibre timing gears. The later 2.9 engine had non siamesed exhaust ports and a timing chain.

To the OP, your symptoms are very much timing chain oriented by the sound of it and it's typically on the over-run when noise tends to manifest. Whether it's just the tensioner will need a strip down to determine but it wouldn't make much sense to pull it apart and not replace the chain and sprockets too. They don't last forever on any OHV engine.

[MisterTee]

Mignon said:

Auntieroll said:

IIRC the Cologne V6 has self destructing fibre /plastic GEAR teeth bonded to the cam wheel steel boss.

The 2.8 Cologne in the Capri and early Granadas had the fibre timing gears. The later 2.9 engine had non siamesed exhaust ports and a timing chain.

To the OP, your symptoms are very much timing chain oriented by the sound of it and it's typically on the over-run when noise tends to manifest. Whether it's just the tensioner will need a strip down to determine but it wouldn't make much sense to pull it apart and not replace the chain and sprockets too. They don't last forever on any OHV engine.

Thanks for this. Haven’t had time to investigate further yet, but I agree, when I do strip it down, I will aim to replace all parts - it just makes sense (as you say).

[PaulKemp]

Auntieroll said:

IIRC the Cologne V6 has self destructing fibre /plastic GEAR teeth bonded to the cam wheel steel boss.
The engine is non interference ,I seem to recall so no engine damage if ( when) failure occurs.
I would not run the engine any more if I were you, the memory of picking bits of plastic from the nooks any crannies
Is still indelibly ingrained after 35 years !
HTH.

That’s the 3.0L Essex V6 your talking about

[Auntieroll]

PaulKemp said:

That’s the 3.0L Essex V6 your talking about

No, it's the Cologne 2.3/2.8 V6 ,unfortunately the OP was talking about the Cologne 2.9 which I had forgotten
has chain drive to the cam and is a rather different ( better) engine !