Urgent starter motor help

[TROOPER88]

Hi Guys
I have got myself into a bit of a pickle.

I have a 1999 Porsche Boxster 2.5 and I have been suffering with a common problem. The issue is the gear. on the starter motor stays out a second or so too long after start up and makes a loud noise.

I decided to have a look today and therefore removed the pipework and plenum and finally the starter.

I did not remove the cover over the solenoid side but did removed the cover over the motor and cleaned and greased all moving parts.

I then reassembled everything but the car would not start. I have electrics to the dash etc but the engine would not turn over.

I removed the starter again and this time tested it. With a negative jump lead on the body of the starter and the positive on and bridging the two positives the starter spins but the gear does not shoot out at all.

I tried several times and simply can not get the starter gear to jump out.

Should the gear be jumping in and out with power to it in this fashion??

I made a big mistake of not disconnecting the battery the first time around as did not want to loose the radio code. When I reinstalled the starter, I did accidentally short out the terminals but only briefly, could this have killed something??

As it stands I need to source a starter urgently tomorrow as this is my daily driver.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Penelope Stopit]

If your starter is like the one below, connect negative to body of starter and positive to the small right hand terminal to check the pinion throws out. if pinion does throw out you can then connect positive to main terminal on left and use a short length of cable to jump from that positive to the small terminal on the right

Is this how you've checked it?

[TROOPER88]

Penelope Stopit said:

If your starter is like the one below, connect negative to body of starter and positive to the small right hand terminal to check the pinion throws out. if pinion does throw out you can then connect positive to main terminal on left and use a short length of cable to jump from that positive to the small terminal on the right

Is this how you've checked it?

Firstly, thank you

Exactly the same looking starter.

Tbh I was in a massive rush and can check with more time in the morning.

I connected the negative to the body of the starter and the positive being bridged across both terminals and all that happens is the gear spins very fast but did not through out

[Penelope Stopit]

TROOPER88 said:

Firstly, thank you

Exactly the same looking starter.

Tbh I was in a massive rush and can check with more time in the morning.

I connected the negative to the body of the starter and the positive being bridged across both terminals and all that happens is the gear spins very fast but did not through out

Glad to possibly be of help

Ok, I don't know what terminals you mean, if you mean you bridged across the ones I've arrowed it should have thrown out and then motored

If you test it again as I've shown and it doesnt throw out, look for a problem with the lever from solenoid to pinion
I don't fully understand what part you have dismantled but.....If you have taken the drive end housing off (the alloy part pinion end) you have very likely dislodged the lever....easily done

If you can post back tonight giving a touch more info about what you've pulled apart that may help but don't go out of your way replying if you have taken the drive end off as the lever will be the problem

[TROOPER88]

Penelope Stopit said:

Glad to possibly be of help

Ok, I don't know what terminals you mean, if you mean you bridged across the ones I've arrowed it should have thrown out and then motored

If you test it again as I've shown and it doesnt throw out, look for a problem with the lever from solenoid to pinion
I don't fully understand what part you have dismantled but.....If you have taken the drive end housing off (the alloy part pinion end) you have very likely dislodged the lever....easily done

If you can post back tonight giving a touch more info about what you've pulled apart that may help but don't go out of your way replying if you have taken the drive end off as the lever will be the problem

Hi
Ok, I removed the starter and placed it in the vice.

I removed the two long bolts that secure the black motor to the body of the starter along with the 13mm nut that removes the cable that attaches to the solenoid.

I put the motor to one side and had a look at what was left.

I removed a plastic cover that sat on top of the gears. There are 3 small gears that sit on prongs and these turn with the outer gear.

I degreased all moving parts and put fresh grease on the gears and on the throw out gear (pulling it out with a pair of pliers).

Could I have disturbed the lever from the solenoid to the pinion in doing this?

When testing, yes, I bridged across the two terminals you arrowed.

The logical answer is this lever thing but really do not know as did not see a lever but happy to investigate further tomorrow.

Thank you

[stevieturbo]

If you've went to the trouble of taking everything apart...which sounds like a lot of work. And you know it doesnt work properly...why not just buy a starter motor ?

And absolutely shorting things out could cause damage, but without knowing exactly what you shorted out....no way to know what.

If you have all normal dash lights, fuel pump primes on key on etc...then that at least would be a good sign.

[TROOPER88]

stevieturbo said:

If you've went to the trouble of taking everything apart...which sounds like a lot of work. And you know it doesnt work properly...why not just buy a starter motor ?

And absolutely shorting things out could cause damage, but without knowing exactly what you shorted out....no way to know what.

If you have all normal dash lights, fuel pump primes on key on etc...then that at least would be a good sign.

Hi
Just because I know that it was just the pinion not pulling back fast enough and it can be fixed with lubrication.

A new Bosch starter is around £4-500

[Penelope Stopit]

TROOPER88 said:

Penelope Stopit said:

Glad to possibly be of help

Ok, I don't know what terminals you mean, if you mean you bridged across the ones I've arrowed it should have thrown out and then motored

If you test it again as I've shown and it doesnt throw out, look for a problem with the lever from solenoid to pinion
I don't fully understand what part you have dismantled but.....If you have taken the drive end housing off (the alloy part pinion end) you have very likely dislodged the lever....easily done

If you can post back tonight giving a touch more info about what you've pulled apart that may help but don't go out of your way replying if you have taken the drive end off as the lever will be the problem

Hi
Ok, I removed the starter and placed it in the vice.

I removed the two long bolts that secure the black motor to the body of the starter along with the 13mm nut that removes the cable that attaches to the solenoid.

I put the motor to one side and had a look at what was left.

I removed a plastic cover that sat on top of the gears. There are 3 small gears that sit on prongs and these turn with the outer gear.

I degreased all moving parts and put fresh grease on the gears and on the throw out gear (pulling it out with a pair of pliers).

Could I have disturbed the lever from the solenoid to the pinion in doing this?

When testing, yes, I bridged across the two terminals you arrowed.

The logical answer is this lever thing but really do not know as did not see a lever but happy to investigate further tomorrow.

Thank you

Yes the lever has very likely come away from the pinion mechanism or the solenoid's plunger. Due to the pinion not disengaging quickly enough you need to undo those 3 screws in the drive end shield that hold the solenoid onto it, pull the solenoid off and you will see the plunger and the lever will be there too probably in the end shield, the chances are that the plunger is dry, sticking in the solenoid and not springing back freely when you come off the key, this will very likely be the cause of the pinion not disengaging quickly enough, grease the plunger and inside the solenoid's barrel but don't use too much otherwise the plunger will hydraulic in the barrel, best pushing the plunger in and out a few times by hand after greasing

Note....take care when stripping it down as the lever will be in there and is very likely a nylon one, there is also a good chance that it isn't a straight lever and needs to go back the way it came out, there could also be a small euro coin sized metal disc and rubber piece behind the disc that hold the lever in place, it's easy to lose the disc, if yours is a permanent magnet starter be carefull with gripping the starter barrel in the vice as you could break or dislodge the magnets




If your solenoid has a plunger that doesn't come out you will need to oil the plunger and let the oil run off it into the solenoid's core

Edited by Penelope Stopit on Tuesday 6th November 22:38

[Penelope Stopit]

Having re-read your description about how you dismantled the starter, it's still difficult as i'm not on the job but the metal disc and piece of rubber could have fallen out and if the starter was rebuilt without these parts the lever would have nothing to lever/pivot against when the solenoid pulls the plunger in

Bear in mind the above is all about if your starter has a disc and rubber piece, some starters have a bolt through the lever

Whatever, the starter does need to be split and the solenoid plunger greased as a dry plunger is very likely the cause of the pinion staying in mesh too long

You will understand the layout/setup of the lever and plunger once you have dismantled it further than the first time

See video @ 6 Mins 50 secs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvOxCtjVbJ0

This is a very similar starter to yours but with a different drive end shield, you will notice the rubber piece and the plunger unhooking from the lever

Edited by Penelope Stopit on Tuesday 6th November 22:29

[TROOPER88]

All sorted, many thanks for to those that contributed.

This morning I sourced a replacement starter from a Porsche breaker and it fired on the first turn of the key

Cheers