ad blue added to diesel

[micky metro]

As per title, my brother hired a vw t6 minibus and it was mentioned that it needs ad blue by one of the hirers mechanics, i was not there so not exactly sure of the context etc but the upshot was that he put fuel in the tank and then nearly half a gallon of ad blue, he did this in the dark and he said he never saw the seperate filler cap. He drove a few miles and then it stopped and would not restart.
What is the likely damage to the engine? Is it just a case of draining the tank or has permanent damage been done to fuel pump injectors etc?
There is also the legal side as to wether he is on the hook for repairs, There was a £1k excess on repairs but not if it was deemed negligent. Any views on this would be welcome.

[Trophy Husband]

Ooops. Given that my vehicle takes 3500 miles to chew through 15 litres I'd suggest major booboo.

Lifted from a site:-

If the unfortunate situation arises that a driver has added AdBlue™ in the diesel tank, do not start the engine as this will circulate the fluid round. AdBlue™ is not compatible with many materials so it can corrode the pipework and components in the fuel system. This can cost thousands of pound worth of damage, not to mention the loss of use of the vehicle until a professional gas drained the tank, flushed out the system and carried out all repairs. So what can you do to prevent drivers from putting AdBlue™ in the fuel tank?

[Evanivitch]

Ouch.

My question would be, why was he expected to fill the Adblue? Surely that's not terms of the hire agreement?

[E-bmw]

Evanivitch said:

Ouch.

My question would be, why was he expected to fill the Adblue? Surely that's not terms of the hire agreement?

^^^^ Wot 'e said.

It is quite akin to picking up a hire car & being asked to top up the oil........ Er, no mate, that is your job to maintain the vehicle & give it to me in the correct condition.

Having said that, the fact that he has done it kind of lays that to rest, it seems like, if what is quoted above comes from the Ts & Cs, then that is a slam dunk, he is now liable.

Edited by E-bmw on Friday 14th December 11:50

[anonymous-user]

I've had an employee do this exact thing to one of the T6's on my fleet, it's cicra £6,500 to replace the fuel system, the dealers know it's an insurance job and that the vehicle is leased from them so they won't be cutting any corners.

Needless to say he is currently looking for alternative employment.

[zedx19]

Difficult this, car should be hired out with all vital fluids full. On the flip side, if your friend is daft enough to not to admit he doesn't know what he's doing, then take a stab in the dark, he's entirely liable for the damage caused. Obviously it'll be an insurance job and he'll have to stump up the excess. I'm amazed he just started pouring adblue into the fuel tank, doesn't he own a phone as it'd take 30 seconds to google it?!

[E-bmw]

As above, I am amazed that in this day & age anyone would accept a rental that "just needs that topping up mate" but also as above once the can is open & the worms are out you are kind of stuffed really.

[Penelope Stopit]

Coin Slot. said:

I've had an employee do this exact thing to one of the T6's on my fleet, it's cicra £6,500 to replace the fuel system, the dealers know it's an insurance job and that the vehicle is leased from them so they won't be cutting any corners.

Needless to say he is currently looking for alternative employment.

You horrible person, you mean you sacked someone for making a mistake. I bet you've never made a mistake

Edited by Penelope Stopit on Friday 14th December 12:53

[Sheepshanks]

E-bmw said:

It is quite akin to picking up a hire car & being asked to top up the oil........ Er, no mate, that is your job to maintain the vehicle & give it to me in the correct condition.

It's not quite the same as AdBlue is a consumable and vans get through a lot of it. And if you had a vehicle on hire for a while and / or did a lot of miles in it then you should check the oil and might need to top it up. Same with screenwash and air in the tyres.

That said, perhaps there's an argument that hirers should be shown what to do.

There was a thread on here recently from someone who mis-fueled a rental car and was being chased for (IIRC) £12K.

[anonymous-user]

Penelope Stopit said:

You horrible person, you mean you sacked someone for making a mistake. I bet you've never made a mistake

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 14th December 12:53

It's negligence, he got himself sacked by not RTFM.

[DuraAce]

Sheepshanks said:

That said, perhaps there's an argument that hirers should be shown what to do.

That's the crucial bit surely?

If you've a van on long term hire then it will need ad blue.

Had the exact scenario recently with a transit we had hired. We'd done 3k miles so it asked for a top up (chances are the ad blue tank wasn't full when got it?)
I sorted it as I'm "into cars"... Several of my colleagues didn't even know what ad blue was, none knew where to put it.

[anonymous-user]

On the T6 for example, you aren't supposed to just top it up like you would top up the fuel tank. So the hire company wouldn't or shouldn't brim the adblue until the van actually starts asking for it. Hence there's a good chance at some point it would need a refill and the hire company should make the filling procedure clear to the hirer.

[Penelope Stopit]

Coin Slot. said:

Penelope Stopit said:

You horrible person, you mean you sacked someone for making a mistake. I bet you've never made a mistake

Edited by Penelope Stopit on Friday 14th December 12:53

It's negligence, he got himself sacked by not RTFM.

You can't be serious

[anonymous-user]

Penelope Stopit said:

You can't be serious

Go away, I don't take emotional or HR advice from a troll on the web.

[Trophy Husband]

DuraAce said:

Sheepshanks said:

That said, perhaps there's an argument that hirers should be shown what to do.

That's the crucial bit surely?

If you've a van on long term hire then it will need ad blue.

Had the exact scenario recently with a transit we had hired. We'd done 3k miles so it asked for a top up (chances are the ad blue tank wasn't full when got it?)
I sorted it as I'm "into cars"... Several of my colleagues didn't even know what ad blue was, none knew where to put it.

I don't think many are up to speed on this. Although to be fair I do not know of an AdBlue vehicle that doesn't tell you when it is needed or that doesn't have a miles countdown before non-start. My wife's Cactus (no pun intended! although it can be a little prickly!), had a countdown from IIRC 800 miles before no go. However, Citroen, in their genius put the tank underneath the spare wheel! Absolute to fill! Especially given her boot (of her car) is filled with random sheeeite.

My gut tells me that the hirer should ensure the urea is topped up pre hire in the same way as oil, coolant, transmission fluid etc. That's the simplest solution.

[Sheepshanks]

Coin Slot. said:

On the T6 for example, you aren't supposed to just top it up like you would top up the fuel tank. So the hire company wouldn't or shouldn't brim the adblue until the van actually starts asking for it. Hence there's a good chance at some point it would need a refill and the hire company should make the filling procedure clear to the hirer.

You can top them up - at least you certainly can on wife's Tiguan - BUT, once the warnings start coming on you have to put a minimum amount in (think it's 5 litres on her car) otherwise it doesn't register.

There's also supposed to be a procedure for telling the car it's been topped up - somthing like switch the ignition on for 30 secs, then off again, then start the car. I've never remembered to do that and never had any issues.

You can well imagine that a rental place wouldn't want to be routinely be topping Ad Blue equipped vehicles up, especially if they weren't probably geared up for it with a big tank etc.

[227bhp]

Adblue is basically water and piss so will have gone straight to the bottom of the tank and been sucked up and fed into the engine. Pointless contemplating on the amount of damage, it could just need all the fuel system taking apart and flushing out or it could have buggered the engine completely.
Expect big bills and yes he's an idiot.

Edited by 227bhp on Friday 14th December 14:11

[thetrickcyclist]

Coin Slot. said:

Penelope Stopit said:

You can't be serious

Go away, I don't take emotional or HR advice from a troll on the web.

So you personally instructed him not to fill up the ad blue then?

[R4PID]

Hired an A6 earlier in the year and the company told me it would need an ad blue top up shortly.

Me (petrol guy only): say what now?

Hire company: Would you like us to do it for you sir?

Me: Yes, I flipping well would when I learned I'd have to buy a special container, get the right tool out etc. etc. What a faff.

Cue lots of annoying noises as they struggled to get the cap off (it uses the tyre arm), had a lousy filler container so adblue went all over him and the car. Then he damaged the thread on the cap screwing it back on. All why I was still waiting/watching for the 'executive' car I'd hired. Amazing really.

Up to that point I'd never heard of Adblue. Confirmed with me why I would continue to be in the 'out' brigade as far as diesels are concerned, I know not easy with a van...

In the OPs defence, the filler cap may not have been easy to see (especially if its dark) or remove (you need a tool) and if you've ever put fuel cleaner straight in I can see where the confusion of just shoving adblue straight in it if its cold and you're in a hurry may arise. Rotten luck.

Hire company should definitely have showed him what to do.

[Ed/L152]

Coin Slot. said:

Penelope Stopit said:

You horrible person, you mean you sacked someone for making a mistake. I bet you've never made a mistake

Edited by Penelope Stopit on Friday 14th December 12:53

It's negligence, he got himself sacked by not RTFM.

You don't sack someone just after you've spent £6,500 training them!