Rover V8 Valley Gasket Fit

[geeman237]

I'm re-fitting the intake manifold on my 1992 TVR Griffith 4.0 but I'm having a big problem with the intake/valley gasket fit. I bought a complete camshaft kit from a reputable TVR supplier and the valley gasket was included. Its the thin 'tin'/aluminium? type, with a black coating both sides, not the composite type.

I have new rubber gaskets for the ends too. When I lay the rubber ends in, then the valley gasket and the metal retainers, the holes in the valley gasket are a full half hole off from the heads and intake manifold. There appears to be no way I can get the valley gasket to line up. As far as I know the heads haven't been removed and skimmed.

Any tips on how to get this valley gasket to work?

Photos of the issue attached.

[E-bmw]

And when you put the manifold over it & sit it home properly you will be compressing it & siting it further into the valley & it all lines up.

[GreenV8S]

Have you got the right head gaskets for your heads and not skimmed anything excessively?

[stevieturbo]

Have you actually tightened up the two 1/2" ( 13mm ) bolts at the end ? That should draw it down a bit further.

[tr7v8]

I'll bet money that it has had the heads skimmed. On mine which was a 8.31 defender lump I'd had 1mm (40thou) taken off of the heads to make the compression around 9:1 I still used to use the uncoated tin gasket with rubber ends with no leaks. You do need to "Persuade " the gasket to line up though. I used to use silicone gasket sealant around the edges & liberally on the rubber end bits & let if flash off before the final tightening. Never ever leaked.
Below is pic of engine after refurb, which was the second time the heads were refitted.

[geeman237]

Thanks for the comments so far. Back out to the garage today for a fresh start.
If I screw the end gasket retainers down to the factory torque setting 14 lb ft then the gasket pulls down *almost* enough. There is still some overlap. Then when I rest the intake manifold in place we are getting close. The valley gasket has raised pressings around the intake ports and waterways that keep the manifold off the heads about 2mm. I have not removed the heads and cannot say if they’ve ever been off before. I’m worried if I *persuade* the bolts in, that I will deform the gasket bolt holes and/or strip the threads in the head.
Photo of the heads if anyone can confirm the head gasket used.

[tr7v8]

I can't remember if I dressed the holes out in the tin gasket, that build was around 2005 or so. But I think I tapped the bolts with a hammer whilst holding them square. Not great engineering but it worked!

[Boosted LS1]

People just hammer the excess gasket into the intake port. It's crude but I've seen the experts do this. In reality I doubt it really effects flow. Either do that or spend hours trimming away what you don't need.

[zombeh]

I adjusted the bolt holes in the gasket when I did mine last. (92 v8s so the same engine with equally skimmed heads as standard) I swear the time before I just stuck it on and bolted it all down though so currently available gaskets might not fit TVRs as well as older ones did.

Admittedly I did that after damaging the threads on a couple of them by trying to do it in the car with not quite adequate light and then dropping part of the tap wrench into the top of the engine so I had to take the bloody thing out to retrieve it.

[geeman237]

Thanks again for additional comments. I got in touch with the paarts supplier and they advised adjusting the gasket holes to suit as that’s what TVR did on the early Griffiths too as they’d skimmed the heads.
I don’t have a Dremel, so I think I’ll be very carefully filing the holes out.

[Boosted LS1]

Good luck with that :-)

[eliot]

I think I’ve used a rubber mallet in the past to conform / push the gasket into the valley. And along the lines of what boosted suggested I used a small round bar and smoothed the lips of the gasket into the ports.

[Belle427]

When I fitted mine V8D advised me to do away with the end rubbers and use a small bead of good quality sealant.
No leaks to speak of at the moment.

[geeman237]

Belle427 said:

When I fitted mine V8D advised me to do away with the end rubbers and use a small bead of good quality sealant.
No leaks to speak of at the moment.

Belle427, interesting you say this. I test fitted the gasket without the end rubbers and it lines up much better so I too thought about omitting them and using a good sealant.

What sealant did you use?

I am thinking of using this https://www.permatex.com/products/gasketing/ultra-...
They also have a link to a Ultra Black version. Any recommendations of either?

I am in the USA.

[Belle427]

I used a loctite black but the permatex is a very good product.
I think both would be suitable but i have seen the grey used a lot on inlet end seals on some of the engine masters shows on you tube.

[Boosted LS1]

I use the Loctite 'black' as well. It's oil/petrol and high temp resistant. If you don't use the end seals then ensure you put a generous dab in each corner.

[paintman]

I used the 'composite' type when I did my RRC a couple of years ago. That's the same type as you're using, the old ones were just plain metal.
Whilst the end clamps need to be fitted you don't tighten them down until the inlet manifold is fitted.

Mine had about 12 thou skimmed as they were both not quite flat. Made no difference to putting it all back together.

Don't know if this might be of interest (use of sealant round the water ports in it is because these are the old plain type).
www.landroverweb.com/Pdf-files/Manuals/Range-Rover... page 31

[Blaxlinde]

To be fair these are a pretty rubbish setup, but they work ok, the big issue is always make sure that the gasket doesn't infringe on the port holes, even a small bit of gasket inside the port mucks the airflow up really badly, as the ports are already pretty small, as someone else said definitely use sealant around the water passages.

Of course back to the original question, these gaskets move around right up until the manifold is torqued down fully & it's not rare to see exactly what you've pictured above. Just add sealant and bolt it together, if you can get the bolts in it'll be OK.

[Sardonicus]

geeman237 said:

Belle427, interesting you say this. I test fitted the gasket without the end rubbers and it lines up much better so I too thought about omitting them and using a good sealant.

What sealant did you use?

I am thinking of using this https://www.permatex.com/products/gasketing/ultra-...
They also have a link to a Ultra Black version. Any recommendations of either?

I am in the USA.

That will be perfect I also dont use the rubber end seals they no longer fit due to the block having a fair bit of material removed from the decks and use something similar to what you linked too Reinzosil

[geeman237]

Update : I fitted the valley gasket and intake manifold on Saturday. I didn’t fit the end seals in the end and used Permatex Ultra Black Gasket maker RTV. Everything went together well. I progressively torqued the bolts down to 30 lb ft. The manual says 38 lb ft but I’ve heard others say this is too high. What’s the consensus?