Mysterious white smoke.
Discussion
have a fully built engine from Whalen's Speed R&D , was running great and made 800hp , decided to go faward face a a new hks head gasket , megnus intake and koyo half radiator.
Upon starting car started going off white smoke, the car was perfectly fine before we took everything apart for the new parts.
The shop machanic put a layer of Motor OIL on the gasket ...like it's a gasket spray.. form what I have seen hks metal headgasket are supposed to go in dry or any other head gasket .
When I asked him why did u put oil he said dont worry it will burn off and I put oil so it would seal perfectly 😔... now I know oil doesn't compress and that could be causing the head gasket to fail and which is causing the white smoke???...but I dont understand my car doesn't have coolent in it which would cause white smoke it has only water in it.
What can cause the oil on the head gasket to give white smoke from the exhaust??
Will changing the headgaskit to a new one make the smoke go away?? When we changed the gaskit every thing else was fine and good. And the car disnt smoke before we opened it up to change the gasket.
Upon starting car started going off white smoke, the car was perfectly fine before we took everything apart for the new parts.
The shop machanic put a layer of Motor OIL on the gasket ...like it's a gasket spray.. form what I have seen hks metal headgasket are supposed to go in dry or any other head gasket .
When I asked him why did u put oil he said dont worry it will burn off and I put oil so it would seal perfectly 😔... now I know oil doesn't compress and that could be causing the head gasket to fail and which is causing the white smoke???...but I dont understand my car doesn't have coolent in it which would cause white smoke it has only water in it.
What can cause the oil on the head gasket to give white smoke from the exhaust??
Will changing the headgaskit to a new one make the smoke go away?? When we changed the gaskit every thing else was fine and good. And the car disnt smoke before we opened it up to change the gasket.
Edited by Wheelspkk on Friday 3rd April 13:31
Edited by Wheelspkk on Friday 3rd April 13:34
Smoke or steam?
Coolant - incl water - getting into a cylinder will produce white 'smoke' which is just steam.
Many years ago I had hgf on an essex engined 3 litre Scimitar. The drive home used as much water as petrol & a white 'smoke' trail behind me.
Stopped at every service station between Surrey & Leicester to refill so neat water.
This is a petrol engine?
ETA. If the gasket manufacturer says to assemble dry then that advice should be followed or you can kiss any warranty goodbye.
Coolant - incl water - getting into a cylinder will produce white 'smoke' which is just steam.
Many years ago I had hgf on an essex engined 3 litre Scimitar. The drive home used as much water as petrol & a white 'smoke' trail behind me.
Stopped at every service station between Surrey & Leicester to refill so neat water.
This is a petrol engine?
ETA. If the gasket manufacturer says to assemble dry then that advice should be followed or you can kiss any warranty goodbye.
Edited by paintman on Friday 3rd April 13:50
If you can breath near the tailpipe it'll be steam.
Have you touched the tailpipe to see if it's water or oil? If it's oil then that may also show on the plugs assuming it's a petrol engine. Put a level mark on the coolant header tank and see if you lose coolant? Do a compression test to check for gasket sealing?
Have you actually driven it?
Have you touched the tailpipe to see if it's water or oil? If it's oil then that may also show on the plugs assuming it's a petrol engine. Put a level mark on the coolant header tank and see if you lose coolant? Do a compression test to check for gasket sealing?
Have you actually driven it?
It's not steam for sure.... as I said this was never there before we opened the car which is a evo 8 btw...to change the headgasket too a metal hks one..as I said the machanic put oil on the gasket when it should had been installed dry...oil cant be compressed I supposed when torqued...maybe left a gap when the oiled burned off...I have driven the car for about 50 or so km the parked it...waiting for another headgasket to come so I can change this one he applied oil too again
Also this smoke goes away after driving for 20 mins ..I guessing whej engine becomes hot it compresses the gasket and seals it????? This is only a guess tho
Also this smoke goes away after driving for 20 mins ..I guessing whej engine becomes hot it compresses the gasket and seals it????? This is only a guess tho
Baffled..
So you took apart something that was working fine with no issues, makinmg whatever alleged power etc etc....to change the head gasket why ??
And them some retard pretending to be a mechanic covered the gasket in oil ? WTF. Peoples stupidity amazes me every day.
Cant comment what that would do, because I've never heard of anyone so stupid to actually try such a thing. Certainly do not go back near that garage.
Other than this smoke, are there any other symptoms of a problem ?
So you took apart something that was working fine with no issues, makinmg whatever alleged power etc etc....to change the head gasket why ??
And them some retard pretending to be a mechanic covered the gasket in oil ? WTF. Peoples stupidity amazes me every day.
Cant comment what that would do, because I've never heard of anyone so stupid to actually try such a thing. Certainly do not go back near that garage.
Other than this smoke, are there any other symptoms of a problem ?
The oem gasket had to be taken out because, it couldnt take 48psi of boost from a 67mm turbo...attaching the pic...so now I had no choice but to change the gasket too a metal HKS one...who would I just change it without a reason.
That stupid machanic explanation was that it was to help the gasket seal better lol.... I told him the hks comes with a silicone sealant already applied to it..but that ahole didnt listion and still went on and applied oil to that just because " that's how we do it for years"
And plus they dont take the responsibility to change it or refund me for a new gasket which is 300$ for a hks headgasket.
Other then that white smoke which is like embarrassing my car drives pretty normally...evrything else if fine...but as I said it was not there when we changed the gasket...so I has no reason to be there now....and I cant stand it lol
As u can see the oem gasket was failing and it would eventually had gone bad
That stupid machanic explanation was that it was to help the gasket seal better lol.... I told him the hks comes with a silicone sealant already applied to it..but that ahole didnt listion and still went on and applied oil to that just because " that's how we do it for years"
And plus they dont take the responsibility to change it or refund me for a new gasket which is 300$ for a hks headgasket.
Other then that white smoke which is like embarrassing my car drives pretty normally...evrything else if fine...but as I said it was not there when we changed the gasket...so I has no reason to be there now....and I cant stand it lol
As u can see the oem gasket was failing and it would eventually had gone bad
Wheelspkk said:
That stupid machanic explanation was that it was to help the gasket seal better lol.... I told him the hks comes with a silicone sealant already applied to it..but that ahole didnt listion and still went on and applied oil to that just because " that's how we do it for years"
With the Scimitar I mentioned above there was a problem not using genuine Ford head gaskets.I'd just fitted the hg that failed & the RSSOC owner's magazine dropped through the letterbox with an insert bringing up the issue. (This is pre-internet days)
The gasket I fitted was by a very reputable maker & the block & head had been checked.
The gasket lasted a few hundred miles before the failure occurred.
Fitted a genuine hg - which came with sealant impregnated unlike the previous one - as per the instructions & it was still going fine when I sold the car a couple of years later.
The other maker got wind of the club's advice & began proceedings to sue the club. A request was made via the club magazine for those that had had issues - which included two specialist garages - to write in & the action was dropped.
I can't see it being caused by the oil on the gasket faces. It would only be microns once the gasket was compressed. It would soon have been cleared through the engine. So, if it's oil I'd look at the turbine housing and inside the exhaust manifold to see if there's oil in there.
Has the block and head got a very smooth finish, it needs this for an MLS gasket to seal. Lastly where is the oil passage from the block to the head? Is the spark plug for the nearest cylinder clean or oiled?
I sometimes have startup smoke caused by dodgy valve stem seals. Oil drains down the guide and into the port where it cooks. After a few hundred yards the smokes gone. It won't do it when outside temps get warmer. A little oil can make a lot of smoke.
Has the block and head got a very smooth finish, it needs this for an MLS gasket to seal. Lastly where is the oil passage from the block to the head? Is the spark plug for the nearest cylinder clean or oiled?
I sometimes have startup smoke caused by dodgy valve stem seals. Oil drains down the guide and into the port where it cooks. After a few hundred yards the smokes gone. It won't do it when outside temps get warmer. A little oil can make a lot of smoke.
Edited by Boosted LS1 on Friday 3rd April 16:13
It's not steam...its oil smoke its smell like burning oil...its thick white smoke it fills the garage when I start the car...I know what steam looks like...yes the turbo is fine...it all was fine before i changed the gasket, and yes I agree had to follow what the manufacture said... oil cant be compressed its uncompressable...so when you torque the studs it will not seal properly...this is the only thing I see that could cause the smoke...since no one has ever put oil on there freaking headgasket so it's no way to tell till I change it. ![](https://thumbsnap.com/sc/2LDgKhm1.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/U54zDHmY" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/U54zDHmY.jpg)
Edited by Wheelspkk on Friday 3rd April 19:28
Edited by Wheelspkk on Friday 3rd April 19:29
Edited by Wheelspkk on Friday 3rd April 19:30
But if you've burnt the oil from the gasket where is the new oil coming from that makes smoke? A smear of oil on the gasket won't cause a problem. Have you low compression, lost coolant etc? I doubt it and for this reason I think the gaskets fine. How is oil getting into the exhaust would be my question.
Think about this. If oil can get into the cylinders why haven't you got a blowing gasket or lost compression?
Think about this. If oil can get into the cylinders why haven't you got a blowing gasket or lost compression?
Edited by Boosted LS1 on Friday 3rd April 19:59
You keep saying that oil isn't compressible and saying that there will be oil keeping the gasket off the engine because it isn't compressible.
The oil isn't contained within walls that keep it in place between the gasket & engine.
You seem to be forgetting that the oil was a film on the gasket that will have been squeezed out as it was torqued up.
I will be the first to say I can't rule out what they have done is somehow causing the issue, I can't see how oiling the gasket (wrong though it is) would cause your issue.
I think you need to go over what they have actually done in closer detail when redoing the gasket to make sure it isn't something else.
I am just saying don't go at the job wearing blinkers & assuming you know the exact issue & possibly miss something else that could be there for the seeing.
The oil isn't contained within walls that keep it in place between the gasket & engine.
You seem to be forgetting that the oil was a film on the gasket that will have been squeezed out as it was torqued up.
I will be the first to say I can't rule out what they have done is somehow causing the issue, I can't see how oiling the gasket (wrong though it is) would cause your issue.
I think you need to go over what they have actually done in closer detail when redoing the gasket to make sure it isn't something else.
I am just saying don't go at the job wearing blinkers & assuming you know the exact issue & possibly miss something else that could be there for the seeing.
Boosted LS1 said:
But if you've burnt the oil from the gasket where is the new oil coming from that makes smoke? A smear of oil on the gasket won't cause a problem. Have you low compression, lost coolant etc? I doubt it and for this reason I think the gaskets fine. How is oil getting into the exhaust would be my question.
Think about this. If oil can get into the cylinders why haven't you got a blowing gasket or lost compression?
Will not a poor sealed head to block which might be caused by a bad head gasket seal produce smoke ??Think about this. If oil can get into the cylinders why haven't you got a blowing gasket or lost compression?
Edited by Boosted LS1 on Friday 3rd April 19:59
Still not making sense.
You said it was running fine etc...and just decided to change the gasket. And now you're saying the head gasket had actually failed ?
Presumably this failure had symptoms at the time ? was there coolant loss then ? Have the block and head both been checked for damage prior to rebuilding ?
Was the head machined before rebuilding ?
Is the cooling system either pressurising, or not pressurising at all ?
Are you actually losing coolant ?
How long was the engine run for after the first failure ? Oil or water in the exhaust, can sometimes take some time to burn away.
You said it was running fine etc...and just decided to change the gasket. And now you're saying the head gasket had actually failed ?
Presumably this failure had symptoms at the time ? was there coolant loss then ? Have the block and head both been checked for damage prior to rebuilding ?
Was the head machined before rebuilding ?
Is the cooling system either pressurising, or not pressurising at all ?
Are you actually losing coolant ?
How long was the engine run for after the first failure ? Oil or water in the exhaust, can sometimes take some time to burn away.
"....Also this smoke goes away after driving for 20 mins ..I guessing when engine becomes hot it compresses the gasket and seals it????? This is only a guess tho"
So its been apart and is now smoking when started... but the smoke clears after a bit? If you are sure its oil, then it sounds more like valve stem seals based on this, likely damaged at some point during the job.
As others have said, oil cant be compressed, but the oil applied was not being compressed it into a sealed container - it would have just squeezed out the sides. I have seen people do this in garages I've worked at before, a thin dust of some sort of lubricant before fitting the gasket, and I think it comes from the days when copper gaskets were used and could stick to the block. I've never done it myself, but equally I've never seen it cause an issue.
So its been apart and is now smoking when started... but the smoke clears after a bit? If you are sure its oil, then it sounds more like valve stem seals based on this, likely damaged at some point during the job.
As others have said, oil cant be compressed, but the oil applied was not being compressed it into a sealed container - it would have just squeezed out the sides. I have seen people do this in garages I've worked at before, a thin dust of some sort of lubricant before fitting the gasket, and I think it comes from the days when copper gaskets were used and could stick to the block. I've never done it myself, but equally I've never seen it cause an issue.
Have you seen how an evo 8 head is removed?? You dont need to take anything off like the cams or lifters ect...only open the studs bolts and pick up the head...so I dont see the valve or the valve seals even being touched...plus I was there when they lifted and fitted the head back ...as I'm not a machanic I didnt knew that them applying the oil would create an issue...so I let them put the oil...also there is one more car with the same issue and the same hks gasket also oiled like mine at the same shop...so it cant be a coincidence?? It's either the oil or the hks gasket it self causing the issue.
They simply lifted the head without removing the cams or anything else put on a soft foam with bubble wrap .... cleaned the block and fitted the gasket and put the head back on then tq to spec...this was done infrount of me and took like 30 mins to do...so this I know that the valves were not even touched.
I have ordered a OEM gasket and hoping after installation the pro will be solved...will keep updating.
They simply lifted the head without removing the cams or anything else put on a soft foam with bubble wrap .... cleaned the block and fitted the gasket and put the head back on then tq to spec...this was done infrount of me and took like 30 mins to do...so this I know that the valves were not even touched.
I have ordered a OEM gasket and hoping after installation the pro will be solved...will keep updating.
Edited by Wheelspkk on Thursday 9th April 13:38
Wheelspkk said:
Have you seen how an evo 8 head is removed?? You dont need to take anything off like the cams or lifters ect...only open the studs bolts and pick up the head...so I dont see the valve or the valve seals even being touched...plus I was there when they lifted and fitted the head back ...as I'm not a machanic I didnt knew that them applying the oil would create an issue...so I let them put the oil...also there is one more car with the same issue and the same hks gasket also oiled like mine at the same shop...so it cant be a coincidence?? It's either the oil or the hks gasket it self causing the issue.
They simply lifted the head without removing the cams or anything else related to the head ..which was then put on a soft foam with bubble wrap .... cleaned the block and fitted the gasket and put the head back on then tq to spec...this was done infrount of me ..so this I know that the valves or anything related to the head were left alone...even the head surface was cleaned very softly with a microfiber cloth which leaves like zero residue...the car didnt smoke before we opened it so opening and closing with out touching the head component is kinda not the cause I'm guessing.
I have ordered a OEM gasket and hoping after installation the oem probs will be solved...will keep updating.
They simply lifted the head without removing the cams or anything else related to the head ..which was then put on a soft foam with bubble wrap .... cleaned the block and fitted the gasket and put the head back on then tq to spec...this was done infrount of me ..so this I know that the valves or anything related to the head were left alone...even the head surface was cleaned very softly with a microfiber cloth which leaves like zero residue...the car didnt smoke before we opened it so opening and closing with out touching the head component is kinda not the cause I'm guessing.
I have ordered a OEM gasket and hoping after installation the oem probs will be solved...will keep updating.
Edited by Wheelspkk on Thursday 9th April 13:38[/footnote]
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