Intercooler hose leak? Big problem?
Discussion
Car: 2013 VW Scirocco R, 2.0L TFSI (EA113) automatic, 71k km, APR Stage 2+ tune, bought this car used at 54k km in 2017.
I have posted here many times over the last couple years still dealing with the same issues (just fyi).
So a while back, I noticed a sudden loss in some acceleration, esp. when accelerating from dead stop. My boost gauge needle would go up pretty high (0.5 to 1 bar) for just wanting to accelerate to 60-70 km/h. We confirmed the readings were correct as I also have a digital gauge and it reads the same.
It wasn't a huge difference, the car still drives pretty good, but it was noticeable enough for me to know something suddenly changed.
After 1.5 years of leaving it, I took it into a shop (tuner shop, someone I trust but is 3 hours away from me), and after testing some, he said he found what appears to be an intercooler pipe/hose leak when the car accelerates. He said that this aftermarket intercooler system hose/pipe was too long for the fitment of this car and it sort of rubs or hits the frame or other parts when the engine moves when accelerating. This contact is causing the hose to have a leak or a loose fitment and he thinks that is what is causing my issue.
I was a little surprised that he suggested I have to replace the entire intercooler system and I should go with stock (because I told him I don't drive very hard like WOT or racing/track). But I was a little surprised that you can't just fix or adjust the hose/piping if it's too long? Why replace the entire intercooler system over long hose/fitment issue? It had been running fine for the first 1.5 years but I guess over time, all the bumping and contact it finally made it worse and now the leak worse than before. He said if you just change the pipes, it will still lead to the same problem.
I'm in South Korea so that makes things a bit more difficult and expensive too I guess. He said he has all the parts except 2 pieces that he needs to order from Germany which is why I guess the quote is pretty high to me. He quoted me for changing out the intercooler to stock one at 1.5 million won which is roughly $1150 USD. He's a good guy, I know he's always telling me the truth and has saved my butt a few times in the past so I trust him. I just don't have any experience with knowing what is normal or not for these kinds of repairs and replacements. Do intercooler systems cost over a grand? I guess so.
Anything you can share about experience or suggestions will be helpful for me to know and learn about this experience.
He is not 100% sure this is what is causing the loss of power (and high boost reading) during my acceleration at slow speeds, because I guess that's just impossible to really know until you actually do it and then test the car again afterwards but by then I'd have already put down money for the new intercooler system. It would suck if I'm having the same issue after all that.
He said also that I could sell my current aftermarket intercooler in some selling sites where some tuners or aftermarket car enthusiasts might look for and buy my current intercooler. The actual intercooler itself isn't bad as far as I know. It sounds like it's just a fitment issue that is causing contact and rubbing which is making the hose loose during acceleration and I believe that is called a "boost leak".
The funny thing though is I have been running rich for a long time. A boost leak should make you run lean according to what I have read all over the internet. So I'm confused still.
We already changed the aftermarket Forge diverter valve to stock diverter valve (another $100 bucks) and he said it made a little improvement but not much. That didn't sound very good. Did I really need to replace the aftermarket forge diverter valve then??? I'm afraid that I'm going to just be swapping out many parts that really aren't the problem and wasting a lot of money but then again, I do trust him, and everything he has told me in the past seems consistent to now.
I have posted here many times over the last couple years still dealing with the same issues (just fyi).
So a while back, I noticed a sudden loss in some acceleration, esp. when accelerating from dead stop. My boost gauge needle would go up pretty high (0.5 to 1 bar) for just wanting to accelerate to 60-70 km/h. We confirmed the readings were correct as I also have a digital gauge and it reads the same.
It wasn't a huge difference, the car still drives pretty good, but it was noticeable enough for me to know something suddenly changed.
After 1.5 years of leaving it, I took it into a shop (tuner shop, someone I trust but is 3 hours away from me), and after testing some, he said he found what appears to be an intercooler pipe/hose leak when the car accelerates. He said that this aftermarket intercooler system hose/pipe was too long for the fitment of this car and it sort of rubs or hits the frame or other parts when the engine moves when accelerating. This contact is causing the hose to have a leak or a loose fitment and he thinks that is what is causing my issue.
I was a little surprised that he suggested I have to replace the entire intercooler system and I should go with stock (because I told him I don't drive very hard like WOT or racing/track). But I was a little surprised that you can't just fix or adjust the hose/piping if it's too long? Why replace the entire intercooler system over long hose/fitment issue? It had been running fine for the first 1.5 years but I guess over time, all the bumping and contact it finally made it worse and now the leak worse than before. He said if you just change the pipes, it will still lead to the same problem.
I'm in South Korea so that makes things a bit more difficult and expensive too I guess. He said he has all the parts except 2 pieces that he needs to order from Germany which is why I guess the quote is pretty high to me. He quoted me for changing out the intercooler to stock one at 1.5 million won which is roughly $1150 USD. He's a good guy, I know he's always telling me the truth and has saved my butt a few times in the past so I trust him. I just don't have any experience with knowing what is normal or not for these kinds of repairs and replacements. Do intercooler systems cost over a grand? I guess so.
Anything you can share about experience or suggestions will be helpful for me to know and learn about this experience.
He is not 100% sure this is what is causing the loss of power (and high boost reading) during my acceleration at slow speeds, because I guess that's just impossible to really know until you actually do it and then test the car again afterwards but by then I'd have already put down money for the new intercooler system. It would suck if I'm having the same issue after all that.
He said also that I could sell my current aftermarket intercooler in some selling sites where some tuners or aftermarket car enthusiasts might look for and buy my current intercooler. The actual intercooler itself isn't bad as far as I know. It sounds like it's just a fitment issue that is causing contact and rubbing which is making the hose loose during acceleration and I believe that is called a "boost leak".
The funny thing though is I have been running rich for a long time. A boost leak should make you run lean according to what I have read all over the internet. So I'm confused still.
We already changed the aftermarket Forge diverter valve to stock diverter valve (another $100 bucks) and he said it made a little improvement but not much. That didn't sound very good. Did I really need to replace the aftermarket forge diverter valve then??? I'm afraid that I'm going to just be swapping out many parts that really aren't the problem and wasting a lot of money but then again, I do trust him, and everything he has told me in the past seems consistent to now.
I don't see how a boost leak could cause high boost pressure. It seems to me an air flow restriction downstream of the intake pressure sensor would fit the symptoms better. That might include problems such as a blocked exhaust, worn cam not opening the valves fully.
If a worn/loose hose was the only problem found, it ought to be practical to repair that cheaply just to see whether it solves the problem before splashing out on an expensive replacement. It seems unlikely to me.
If a worn/loose hose was the only problem found, it ought to be practical to repair that cheaply just to see whether it solves the problem before splashing out on an expensive replacement. It seems unlikely to me.
GreenV8S said:
I don't see how a boost leak could cause high boost pressure. It seems to me an air flow restriction downstream of the intake pressure sensor would fit the symptoms better. That might include problems such as a blocked exhaust, worn cam not opening the valves fully.
If a worn/loose hose was the only problem found, it ought to be practical to repair that cheaply just to see whether it solves the problem before splashing out on an expensive replacement. It seems unlikely to me.
Thanks for the feedback. What I am confused about is that if it is a boost leak, then my fuel trims should be lean and not rich (that's what I've been told and reading). I've only had very rich fuel trims so it didn't seem like it could be a boost leak but I'm sure this leak he found in the intercooler piping hose is doing something it shouldn't.....I will continue to ask him about it and see what he says (but I don't have to go ahead and change the intercooler system right now...he says I can just drive it home and come back later in the future anytime). Right now, he did was changed the forge diverter valve to stock DV and he'll be doing intake valves carbon cleaning (walnut blasting), oil change (I'll ask him to keep the oil filter for me so that later when I pick up the car in a couple weeks I can examine the oil filter by opening it up and hopefully not see any shiny particles which would confirm then worn cam right?).If a worn/loose hose was the only problem found, it ought to be practical to repair that cheaply just to see whether it solves the problem before splashing out on an expensive replacement. It seems unlikely to me.
I'm also having all 4 brake discs, calipers/brackets, pads replaced so that's why it's at the shop for a long time (2+ weeks due to having to order parts and get the brake disc offset correct by the mfg here to custom make it). It's 3 hours to his shop so that's why I can't go often or anytime I want. I wish I could but doing the most basic maintenance takes me 6 hour commute round trip.
Does this video seem to point out the same similar symptoms? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TlygJMxTps
start at 5:00.
-rich fuel trim (yes)
-misfiring (at idle I saw my vcds showed a couple misfires here and there but not while driving not that I know of)
start at 5:00.
-rich fuel trim (yes)
-misfiring (at idle I saw my vcds showed a couple misfires here and there but not while driving not that I know of)
LimSlip said:
Inlet ports choked with carbon? That could explain high boost for not much performance.
Well he is going to do intake valve carbon cleaning (walnut blasting) if that's what inlet ports means?I don't know if that could be it because the change was SUDDEN. It wasn't gradual. One day my car accelerates fine up a small hill
with no boost really required. The next day it was way up at 0.5 bar going up the same hill and the car wouldn't pick up more speed unless
I really floored it.
Such a sudden change overnight sounds more like something came loose or some part became compromised.
Here are some pics he sent me of where he said there appears to be contact/rubbing when the engine moves and it knocks
loose the hose or something where it leaks during acceleration but even he's not sure if fixing that is going to resolve the high boost
low speed acceleration issue I'm feeling.
https://ibb.co/L0nwvrH
https://ibb.co/Hq0b8fz
https://ibb.co/QbmWdfG
He doesn't know what brand aftermarket intercooler is installed on my car. I think he says he has to remove it all to see. But he said that even if you
fix/replace the hose parts only, it would still come undone when the engine moves during acceleration(?) not sure what he means by that ...sounds like he's saying the intercooler system is too big to actually fit this car and the contact is causing the hoses to become damaged or loosened?
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