Should my mechanic have known engine was oil starved?
Discussion
Hi All,
I was hoping that someone could offer me some advice on a situation I have encountered.
An oil leak was recently fixed by “a mechanic”, when I got it back I drove it for 30 miles and the clutch went on the motorway. When the car was recovered I had another mechanic look over it as the previous mechanic told me it was my fault for driving it! I’m serious, after being paid and telling me the car was safe that was the guys response.
The next garage, found major issues with his work, he glued the vacuum pump back in place with silicone and didn’t tighten it properly, also the fuel lines weren’t secured. After servicing it, he used a different bolt, and no washer, and cross threaded the sump hole. The new garage told me that the clutch was burnt out due to oil leaking on it, which also got into the gearbox and I would need a new clutch, new flywheel, and some other minor repairs. I have a limited budget and this was all totally unexpected so I asked (as the cars value isn’t very high) for a full diagnosis of the car, which I told I was given.
After doing all the work they said it would need over 2k between parts and labour, they then turned on the car and told me the engine was ruined due to oil starvation. So total disaster as a new second hand engine and fitting is around 3k.
If I had of know that from the start I would have scraped the car and I told the guys in the garage that If the cost of repairs would amount to more than 2k that was my only option. Now I’m in a position where the car is still ruined and I’ve just spend 2k on half fixing my car, which is probably only worth £3k.
My question, is the guys in the garage say they didn’t turn on the car because the clutch was burned out and stuck to floor and it’s a start stop model so there is absolutely no way they could have known this in advance.
Is this the truth or have I just been taken to the cleaners twice in a row?
I’d appreciate any help, this is quite stressful and I’ve little experience in the mechanics of cars, I just find it unusual that they didn’t check the most fundamental aspect of a car, that being it’s engine in advance of doing everything else.
Thanks,
I was hoping that someone could offer me some advice on a situation I have encountered.
An oil leak was recently fixed by “a mechanic”, when I got it back I drove it for 30 miles and the clutch went on the motorway. When the car was recovered I had another mechanic look over it as the previous mechanic told me it was my fault for driving it! I’m serious, after being paid and telling me the car was safe that was the guys response.
The next garage, found major issues with his work, he glued the vacuum pump back in place with silicone and didn’t tighten it properly, also the fuel lines weren’t secured. After servicing it, he used a different bolt, and no washer, and cross threaded the sump hole. The new garage told me that the clutch was burnt out due to oil leaking on it, which also got into the gearbox and I would need a new clutch, new flywheel, and some other minor repairs. I have a limited budget and this was all totally unexpected so I asked (as the cars value isn’t very high) for a full diagnosis of the car, which I told I was given.
After doing all the work they said it would need over 2k between parts and labour, they then turned on the car and told me the engine was ruined due to oil starvation. So total disaster as a new second hand engine and fitting is around 3k.
If I had of know that from the start I would have scraped the car and I told the guys in the garage that If the cost of repairs would amount to more than 2k that was my only option. Now I’m in a position where the car is still ruined and I’ve just spend 2k on half fixing my car, which is probably only worth £3k.
My question, is the guys in the garage say they didn’t turn on the car because the clutch was burned out and stuck to floor and it’s a start stop model so there is absolutely no way they could have known this in advance.
Is this the truth or have I just been taken to the cleaners twice in a row?
I’d appreciate any help, this is quite stressful and I’ve little experience in the mechanics of cars, I just find it unusual that they didn’t check the most fundamental aspect of a car, that being it’s engine in advance of doing everything else.
Thanks,
It sounds like you have a number of issues
Firstly the clutch isn’t the original garages fault, nothing they did would cause the rear main oil seal to fail, if it has been leaking then it would have been leaking for some time
Next if the car lost drive then the engine was clearly running and not starved of oil, unless it had been run low on oil at some point and it was locking up due to heat
Why were lots of parts loose, how do you know it was the original mechanic
How well did you maintain the vehicle, servicing and regular checks of oil etc
Firstly the clutch isn’t the original garages fault, nothing they did would cause the rear main oil seal to fail, if it has been leaking then it would have been leaking for some time
Next if the car lost drive then the engine was clearly running and not starved of oil, unless it had been run low on oil at some point and it was locking up due to heat
Why were lots of parts loose, how do you know it was the original mechanic
How well did you maintain the vehicle, servicing and regular checks of oil etc
EAH1 said:
Hi All,
I was hoping that someone could offer me some advice on a situation I have encountered.
An oil leak was recently fixed by “a mechanic”, when I got it back I drove it for 30 miles and the clutch went on the motorway. When the car was recovered I had another mechanic look over it as the previous mechanic told me it was my fault for driving it! I’m serious, after being paid and telling me the car was safe that was the guys response.
The next garage, found major issues with his work, he glued the vacuum pump back in place with silicone and didn’t tighten it properly, also the fuel lines weren’t secured. After servicing it, he used a different bolt, and no washer, and cross threaded the sump hole. The new garage told me that the clutch was burnt out due to oil leaking on it, which also got into the gearbox and I would need a new clutch, new flywheel, and some other minor repairs. I have a limited budget and this was all totally unexpected so I asked (as the cars value isn’t very high) for a full diagnosis of the car, which I told I was given.
After doing all the work they said it would need over 2k between parts and labour, they then turned on the car and told me the engine was ruined due to oil starvation. So total disaster as a new second hand engine and fitting is around 3k.
If I had of know that from the start I would have scraped the car and I told the guys in the garage that If the cost of repairs would amount to more than 2k that was my only option. Now I’m in a position where the car is still ruined and I’ve just spend 2k on half fixing my car, which is probably only worth £3k.
My question, is the guys in the garage say they didn’t turn on the car because the clutch was burned out and stuck to floor and it’s a start stop model so there is absolutely no way they could have known this in advance.
Is this the truth or have I just been taken to the cleaners twice in a row?
I’d appreciate any help, this is quite stressful and I’ve little experience in the mechanics of cars, I just find it unusual that they didn’t check the most fundamental aspect of a car, that being it’s engine in advance of doing everything else.
Thanks,
If I didn’t have bad luck I’d have no luck at all.......I was hoping that someone could offer me some advice on a situation I have encountered.
An oil leak was recently fixed by “a mechanic”, when I got it back I drove it for 30 miles and the clutch went on the motorway. When the car was recovered I had another mechanic look over it as the previous mechanic told me it was my fault for driving it! I’m serious, after being paid and telling me the car was safe that was the guys response.
The next garage, found major issues with his work, he glued the vacuum pump back in place with silicone and didn’t tighten it properly, also the fuel lines weren’t secured. After servicing it, he used a different bolt, and no washer, and cross threaded the sump hole. The new garage told me that the clutch was burnt out due to oil leaking on it, which also got into the gearbox and I would need a new clutch, new flywheel, and some other minor repairs. I have a limited budget and this was all totally unexpected so I asked (as the cars value isn’t very high) for a full diagnosis of the car, which I told I was given.
After doing all the work they said it would need over 2k between parts and labour, they then turned on the car and told me the engine was ruined due to oil starvation. So total disaster as a new second hand engine and fitting is around 3k.
If I had of know that from the start I would have scraped the car and I told the guys in the garage that If the cost of repairs would amount to more than 2k that was my only option. Now I’m in a position where the car is still ruined and I’ve just spend 2k on half fixing my car, which is probably only worth £3k.
My question, is the guys in the garage say they didn’t turn on the car because the clutch was burned out and stuck to floor and it’s a start stop model so there is absolutely no way they could have known this in advance.
Is this the truth or have I just been taken to the cleaners twice in a row?
I’d appreciate any help, this is quite stressful and I’ve little experience in the mechanics of cars, I just find it unusual that they didn’t check the most fundamental aspect of a car, that being it’s engine in advance of doing everything else.
Thanks,
The first mechanic didn’t have a crystal ball to tell him your clutch was about to pack up.
It is feasible that the second mechanic didn’t notice the damage to the engine until the clutch was done.
The rest is all neither here nor there, things go wrong on cars at any time independent of visits to mechanics and tradesmen always bad mouth one another’s work.
When was the last time you OP, or any mechanic, checked the engine oil level?
It is feasible that the second mechanic didn’t notice the damage to the engine until the clutch was done.
The rest is all neither here nor there, things go wrong on cars at any time independent of visits to mechanics and tradesmen always bad mouth one another’s work.
When was the last time you OP, or any mechanic, checked the engine oil level?
Ive copied the report from the second garage doing repairs below and that’s what they have told me.
The first garage was contracted to fix the oil leaks and service the car “I supplied servicing materials and full gasket set”, before I got the car returned to me when it proceeded to break down.
When we got the car recovered to our garage it was UN drivable, wouldn’t go into gear and the clutch pedal was rock hard and we were unable to start the car. First look underneath the bonnet you could see a few problems straight away, i.e.: low on coolant, various oil leaks coming from different areas on the engine.
We pushed the car up on the ramp to have a better look at all of the leaks we have fond, one leak was coming from the sump plug. This leak is one of the worse leaks on the engine. Over a period of 1 hour it had dripped so much it has left a big puddle of oil on the floor. On closer inspection either the sump washer hasn’t been put back on r the plug has been cross threaded into the sump itself.
Another leak we found was on the vacuum pump on the rear of the engine, this leak has been so bad that it has leaked all into the gearbox and contaminated the clutch. While removing the pump I spotted a few issues on the way. One of these problems where the bolts that hold the pump on the engine was actually loose, this is one of the causes of the oil leak. High pressure fuel pipes have been removed previous and the main clips which hold them on have been left off. This could have caused a very big problem as they are high pressure they could have come off at any time. These fuel pipes are above the exhaust manifold and if they had popped off could have resulted into a big fire.
I have had spoken to mark at this point and we had decided to take the engine out due to the major oil leaks and clutch problem which we have found.
After the removal of the engine we found two coolant leaks on the engine. One of the leaks was on the back of the engine near the vacuum pump which the pipe was so brittle from the engine oil, another water leak was from a housing at the bottom right side of the engine by the engine mount. This one is a minor water leak and was easily resolved by a new gasket.
On the front of the engine (timing chain cover) I had noticed a big oil leak. Which was easily resolved by a new chain cover gasket, this oil leak has been there some time and was all down the left front side of the engine.
Another problem I found was the vacuum pipe that goes to the turbo actuator had been broken off and has been like that few a few months, on closer inspection the pipe which I can see looks to have glue on from previous attempts to be fixed. Spoke to mark about when he dove the car last time did he have power when he put the power down and he said it was very restricted and felt it had no power at all. This could be dangerous pulling out of a junction without the power you could miss judge the speed you are going to go.
While the engine has been out I have taken the gearbox off the change the clutch. On removal of the gearbox we have found a lot of oil in the bell housing and contaminated clutch remains all in the bell housing. This problem has been caused by the vacuum pump leaking oil all over the gearbox and contaminated. After taking the clutch out and inspecting all other parts of the gearbox the clutch arm which hold the release bearing and the slave cylinder had got very hot. The release bearing was melted to the arm and the socket which the slave cylinder clips into had melted, this resulted to one of the issues to why the clutch failed. Of further inspection where the clutch has got so hot it has made the dual mass flywheel start to fail. I have spoken to mark about this and in past experiences I do not fit new clutched on to dual mass flywheels that has damage or play in them as it could resort to clutch failure in the near future.
The cost of all this work will be listed below:
All issues has been documented via video over WhatsApp.
While the engine has been out over night the sump was leaking thought the sump plug, and I noticed it was not the correct plug for the engine. So I ordered a new sump plug and trying fitting it to the engine, while trying to fit it I realized the old sump plug had been cross threaded into the sump. This has been the main reason why the sump was leaking oil. So I have had to order a new sump as the threads where too far gone to try fix.
Once we had sorted every oil leak out we have reinstalled the engine into the car, put everything back together to try and find the boost problem, the snapped pipe which we had found earlier connected the n75 valve and it was very obvious that it has been glued back together. So we ordered a new n75 valve and connected it all back up and it’s nearly ready to start.
Once I have put new oil (5 liters), coolant and pumped the clutch pedal to finally start the car to see if there was any more problems with the car, it started up with a very bad knocking noise. It sounded like the bottom end bearing have spun. This is due to lack of oil in the car or driving with a serious oil leak which this car had clearly had. `This has now resulted to the car being stuck on the ramp and leaving the customer with no car due to all of these problems. Now requires a new engine so it will cost more to repair this engine which we already have
The first garage was contracted to fix the oil leaks and service the car “I supplied servicing materials and full gasket set”, before I got the car returned to me when it proceeded to break down.
When we got the car recovered to our garage it was UN drivable, wouldn’t go into gear and the clutch pedal was rock hard and we were unable to start the car. First look underneath the bonnet you could see a few problems straight away, i.e.: low on coolant, various oil leaks coming from different areas on the engine.
We pushed the car up on the ramp to have a better look at all of the leaks we have fond, one leak was coming from the sump plug. This leak is one of the worse leaks on the engine. Over a period of 1 hour it had dripped so much it has left a big puddle of oil on the floor. On closer inspection either the sump washer hasn’t been put back on r the plug has been cross threaded into the sump itself.
Another leak we found was on the vacuum pump on the rear of the engine, this leak has been so bad that it has leaked all into the gearbox and contaminated the clutch. While removing the pump I spotted a few issues on the way. One of these problems where the bolts that hold the pump on the engine was actually loose, this is one of the causes of the oil leak. High pressure fuel pipes have been removed previous and the main clips which hold them on have been left off. This could have caused a very big problem as they are high pressure they could have come off at any time. These fuel pipes are above the exhaust manifold and if they had popped off could have resulted into a big fire.
I have had spoken to mark at this point and we had decided to take the engine out due to the major oil leaks and clutch problem which we have found.
After the removal of the engine we found two coolant leaks on the engine. One of the leaks was on the back of the engine near the vacuum pump which the pipe was so brittle from the engine oil, another water leak was from a housing at the bottom right side of the engine by the engine mount. This one is a minor water leak and was easily resolved by a new gasket.
On the front of the engine (timing chain cover) I had noticed a big oil leak. Which was easily resolved by a new chain cover gasket, this oil leak has been there some time and was all down the left front side of the engine.
Another problem I found was the vacuum pipe that goes to the turbo actuator had been broken off and has been like that few a few months, on closer inspection the pipe which I can see looks to have glue on from previous attempts to be fixed. Spoke to mark about when he dove the car last time did he have power when he put the power down and he said it was very restricted and felt it had no power at all. This could be dangerous pulling out of a junction without the power you could miss judge the speed you are going to go.
While the engine has been out I have taken the gearbox off the change the clutch. On removal of the gearbox we have found a lot of oil in the bell housing and contaminated clutch remains all in the bell housing. This problem has been caused by the vacuum pump leaking oil all over the gearbox and contaminated. After taking the clutch out and inspecting all other parts of the gearbox the clutch arm which hold the release bearing and the slave cylinder had got very hot. The release bearing was melted to the arm and the socket which the slave cylinder clips into had melted, this resulted to one of the issues to why the clutch failed. Of further inspection where the clutch has got so hot it has made the dual mass flywheel start to fail. I have spoken to mark about this and in past experiences I do not fit new clutched on to dual mass flywheels that has damage or play in them as it could resort to clutch failure in the near future.
The cost of all this work will be listed below:
All issues has been documented via video over WhatsApp.
While the engine has been out over night the sump was leaking thought the sump plug, and I noticed it was not the correct plug for the engine. So I ordered a new sump plug and trying fitting it to the engine, while trying to fit it I realized the old sump plug had been cross threaded into the sump. This has been the main reason why the sump was leaking oil. So I have had to order a new sump as the threads where too far gone to try fix.
Once we had sorted every oil leak out we have reinstalled the engine into the car, put everything back together to try and find the boost problem, the snapped pipe which we had found earlier connected the n75 valve and it was very obvious that it has been glued back together. So we ordered a new n75 valve and connected it all back up and it’s nearly ready to start.
Once I have put new oil (5 liters), coolant and pumped the clutch pedal to finally start the car to see if there was any more problems with the car, it started up with a very bad knocking noise. It sounded like the bottom end bearing have spun. This is due to lack of oil in the car or driving with a serious oil leak which this car had clearly had. `This has now resulted to the car being stuck on the ramp and leaving the customer with no car due to all of these problems. Now requires a new engine so it will cost more to repair this engine which we already have
Reading all that really does make me wince and I feel for you, but a big chunk of it is bad luck combined with poor maintainence and very possibly a crappy first mechanic. The problem with some mechanics, they will only do what you told them to and stick their head into a job with blinkers on. I have known mechanics to ignore obvious problems just because you asked them to look at something else.
If the car has been pouring oil out onto your drive or street outside your house, it would be good practice to check it is well topped up. I assume this has been the case as mechanic B reports multiple leaks and for an extended period of time. Did you have oil on the ground under the car and did you check the oil level before driving it to any mechanic or to anywhere for that matter?
I have a question for a mechanic on this one. Is it possible for the engine starting to seize up to put pressure on an already weakened clutch and effectively burn out the clutch at the same time as the engine is failing? Is the weight of the moving car pushing back through the transmission against an increasingly seized engine, enough to kill the clutch that sits between the 2? In my mind, it's very possible, but I am unsure if it is in reality, be interested to see if any mechanics can answer that.
If this is the case, then that will explain the catastrophic failure...
If the car has been pouring oil out onto your drive or street outside your house, it would be good practice to check it is well topped up. I assume this has been the case as mechanic B reports multiple leaks and for an extended period of time. Did you have oil on the ground under the car and did you check the oil level before driving it to any mechanic or to anywhere for that matter?
I have a question for a mechanic on this one. Is it possible for the engine starting to seize up to put pressure on an already weakened clutch and effectively burn out the clutch at the same time as the engine is failing? Is the weight of the moving car pushing back through the transmission against an increasingly seized engine, enough to kill the clutch that sits between the 2? In my mind, it's very possible, but I am unsure if it is in reality, be interested to see if any mechanics can answer that.
If this is the case, then that will explain the catastrophic failure...
Evil.soup said:
Is the weight of the moving car pushing back through the transmission against an increasingly seized engine, enough to kill the clutch that sits between the 2?
That seems unlikely to me. It seems more likely that the clutch contamination from the oil leak caused the clutch to slip, overheat and fail. Meanhile the loss of oil from the oil leak caused low oil pressure which led to the engine damage. I'm surprised that the slipping clutch and low oil pressure weren't apparent when the car was driving and the big oil leak wasn't obvious when it was parked.
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