Old School ignition problems

[silverfoxcc]

Friend has a 1936 Lanchester. when put away for the winter it ran as sweet as a nut

It now refuses to fire

We have checked Fuel.. petrol is being pumped to the SU carb the carb is supplying fuel to cylinders

Coil is working ok

He has a spare distributor and condenser and has changed both, along with the points..

1. We have tried both the manuals timimg setting .and the old * degre BTSC both with no success

now this is what we have found

Removing lead from coil to distributor and holding it near to the block.. A good spark

Removing plug also gives a spark across the gap although not as good as the one from the coil test
Even swapped the leads through 180 to see if thee timing may have been the problem
Didtributor cap also swapped

When turning the engine over a spark ,weakish, is noted at the points and then refuses to spark.on openingthis is on both distributors points
The distributor is fitted so on cranking we can swing it through an arc to see if the position of No1 is no quite right

We are at a total loss as to where the problem lies. Anyone got any suggestions?

I am goig to suggest that he sets up the ignition system OFF the car

[jeremyc]

Have you tried changing (or cleaning) the spark plugs and checking the gaps?

[silverfoxcc]

Yes changed and checked and cleaned

[GreenV8S]

Are the plugs wet or dry?

[silverfoxcc]

Plugs are wet. double checked byh holding hand over the SU intake and whilst turning over engine opened butterfly.. plenty of fuel pulling through. The jet has been set to correct level and the piston is free the go up and down ( it is of the early SU type where there is no spring or oil damper

[GreenV8S]

Either the engine is simply flooded, or you have an ignition fault, dirty plugs, weak battery or some combination.

Can you clarify what you mean by this?

> When turning the engine over a spark ,weakish, is noted at the points and then refuses to spark.on openingthis is on both distributors points

Have you tried with a fully charged battery and brand new plugs correctly gapped? If not, do that.

[Fast and Spurious]

How old is the petrol?

[VYT]

What colour is the spark at the plug? If i remember correctly you want a "blue" tinge to the spark. If its a white colour then there may well be no spark under compression.

[hellorent]

Rotor arm ?

[silverfoxcc]

Petrol is no more than three months

Rotor arm changed with same results

[hellorent]

Compression test maybe

[Peanut Gallery]

Are you still getting power to the coil when cranking?

[ARHarh]

If you are getting a decent spark at the plug there is nothing wrong with the ignition unless you have now got the timing 180 degrees out, easy to do.

I would start with fresh petrol.
Check the piston in the SU carb is moving up and down freely, easy to do by unscrewing the plunger and using it to lift the piston. Check the oil level whilst there. Check the choke is working correctly. If it then does not start try releasing the choke and try starting with the throttle fully open. It may also help if while cranking someone lifts the SU piston.

If that does not work, take out the plugs and heat them up with a blowtorch, burning off any residue. Then try again. If you can get them back in quick and try starting when they are still warm it may help as well.

If still having trouble you could try some starting spray or brake cleaner into the intake.

Good luck.

[stevieturbo]

silverfoxcc said:

Plugs are wet. double checked byh holding hand over the SU intake and whilst turning over engine opened butterfly.. plenty of fuel pulling through. The jet has been set to correct level and the piston is free the go up and down ( it is of the early SU type where there is no spring or oil damper

Get a proper spark plug gamp jumper thingy to get a proper indication of spark power.

And if the plugs are flooded, bin them and get new ones.

And ensure any battery used for cranking and sparks, is good.

[silverfoxcc]

Thanks for all the replies

Have tried most, if not all of the suggestions. Rocker cover is off so we can see that both valves are fully closed and TDC mark is correct on the crankshaft pulley.. The distributor and rotor arm can only go in one way so the position of Not 1 cylinder lead is confirmed
Have also swapped all the leads just in case it it was 180 degrees out..
We have some start easy so that it still an option. As noted earlier it is an early SU without the oil damper and spring
Have not yet given the plugs a blast from a small soldering torch,. Not sure how much juice is in the tank to drain and refill
Oh and checked the float and needle inlet and they are ok

As we have a complete set of replacements Coil, distributor,plugs points. i might suggest that we set them up on the bench with a 12v battery as the power /earth and follow everything through. It is annoying as when she was put in ,she started on the button everytime!! luckily everything is get attable so mix/match wont be a problem

[stevieturbo]

Don't waste time faffing about and do what I said.

[richhead]

silverfoxcc said:

Friend has a 1936 Lanchester. when put away for the winter it ran as sweet as a nut

It now refuses to fire

We have checked Fuel.. petrol is being pumped to the SU carb the carb is supplying fuel to cylinders

Coil is working ok

He has a spare distributor and condenser and has changed both, along with the points..

1. We have tried both the manuals timimg setting .and the old * degre BTSC both with no success

now this is what we have found

Removing lead from coil to distributor and holding it near to the block.. A good spark

Removing plug also gives a spark across the gap although not as good as the one from the coil test
Even swapped the leads through 180 to see if thee timing may have been the problem
Didtributor cap also swapped

When turning the engine over a spark ,weakish, is noted at the points and then refuses to spark.on openingthis is on both distributors points
The distributor is fitted so on cranking we can swing it through an arc to see if the position of No1 is no quite right

We are at a total loss as to where the problem lies. Anyone got any suggestions?

I am goig to suggest that he sets up the ignition system OFF the car

you say you have a spark at the plug, it will be less than at the king lead, it has too jump two gaps in the distributor before getting to the plug, are you getting the right voltage at the coil when cranking?
if it was running before and now isnt, its unlikely to be timing, as that doesnt just move on its own, unless you have moved it.
Start at the begining, check you are getting good voltage at the coil, does sound like its not getting a starter feed to it.
Should be near battery volt on cranking, then reducing when running due to the ballast.
If the plugs are wet, change them, they are never the same after. Sometimes heating the plugs can work but thats not the origional problem, are they the right heat of plug?
So many variables, start with the basics, voltage at the coil, is the distributer switching the coil, and at the right time, thats all there is really.

[alfaspecial]

It can often be a bd job to start a car that has been off the road for months. You can chase your own arse around and around.


From experience.
1) Make sure the battery is charged. Really charged. Well over 12v. Preferably 13v plus. Remember the battery has to provide 12v to the coil AND turnover the engine with it's sludgy oil.
2) Ask for specific advice re your car (I wouldn't want you to do damage on my say-so!). Remove the low tension lead to the coil (you don't want a spark) and all the spark plugs. This should enable the engine to turn easily because the battery is only having to 'stir' the oil and not provide compression.
3) Once the engine has turned over 20-30 times and pumped the oil up to the cylinder head you can put back and connect spark plugs and coil. Try and start the engine as normal. A 'spare' battery may help, to ensure as much wrouumph (invented a new world there) as possible, in order to start car.


You might be able to get some more specific help if you were to post in the PH classic car section.



This might or might not be relevant to your 1936 Lanchester but a friend has a 1924 Lancia. The starting procedure involves advancing/retarding the ignition. This is done simply by moving the distributor via a cable. Does you friends car have such an arrangement?