Chargecoolers on mid-engined cars
Discussion
Hi all,
It's been a while since I've had a car worth modifying but I'm trying to work something out and would appreciate some advice.
I have a VX220 Turbo and I've bought a 2nd hand Chargecooler kit for it. This kit (sold by Thorney Motorsport (TMS) - made by AH Fabrications) divided the VX guys back in the day but the forum was quite rowdy at the time so it's difficult to see the wood for the trees in terms of hard facts vs "bro science" vs agendas.
I'm not looking for dragster-power - just a solid, stable environment from which to do a decent map that I can use for road and track days. Looking for flat torque curve rather than 'boosty' and I'm hoping the CC will make it a little more stable so I'm just looking for an improvement over standard rather than the ultimate solution. For context, the kit cost me circa £300.
The TMC kit consists of a small front-mounted rad, coolant pipes that run the length of the car, a coolant tank with the pump mounted at the bottom and then the chargecooler brick/barrel. It's VERY well made but I'm just trying to get some perspective on the aspects that really matter.
1. The TMC has the CC 'brick' (or barrel) in series behind the air-to-air IC - I understand this is sub-optimal due to pressure drop.
Is this just a technical pressure drop or will it affect real world performance / 'feel'?
I've had a look at generic CC systems and they all bin the intercooler so I'm assuming this is a real world issue.
2. It looks like the output end of the brick is 50mm and input 70mm
My inlet system is 70mm - is the reduction to 50mm an issue? It would seem to be by design as they could have made both ends 70mm - strikes me as slightly odd.
3. There is a front mounted radiator that is quite small - 100mm high x 170mm
Is this 'man' enough?
4. The brick itself is about 300mm l x 150x h x 80 w
This seems about the same size as some generic barrel systems so I assume that's about right?
My current thinking is that I could just remove the IC and this system might be quite solid.
For info - car is mod'd with mostly bolt-ons (hybrid turbo, VXR injectors + MAF, 3" exhaust, re-map, 70mm inlet system, etc).
Any help would be much appreciated.
It's been a while since I've had a car worth modifying but I'm trying to work something out and would appreciate some advice.
I have a VX220 Turbo and I've bought a 2nd hand Chargecooler kit for it. This kit (sold by Thorney Motorsport (TMS) - made by AH Fabrications) divided the VX guys back in the day but the forum was quite rowdy at the time so it's difficult to see the wood for the trees in terms of hard facts vs "bro science" vs agendas.
I'm not looking for dragster-power - just a solid, stable environment from which to do a decent map that I can use for road and track days. Looking for flat torque curve rather than 'boosty' and I'm hoping the CC will make it a little more stable so I'm just looking for an improvement over standard rather than the ultimate solution. For context, the kit cost me circa £300.
The TMC kit consists of a small front-mounted rad, coolant pipes that run the length of the car, a coolant tank with the pump mounted at the bottom and then the chargecooler brick/barrel. It's VERY well made but I'm just trying to get some perspective on the aspects that really matter.
1. The TMC has the CC 'brick' (or barrel) in series behind the air-to-air IC - I understand this is sub-optimal due to pressure drop.
Is this just a technical pressure drop or will it affect real world performance / 'feel'?
I've had a look at generic CC systems and they all bin the intercooler so I'm assuming this is a real world issue.
2. It looks like the output end of the brick is 50mm and input 70mm
My inlet system is 70mm - is the reduction to 50mm an issue? It would seem to be by design as they could have made both ends 70mm - strikes me as slightly odd.
3. There is a front mounted radiator that is quite small - 100mm high x 170mm
Is this 'man' enough?
4. The brick itself is about 300mm l x 150x h x 80 w
This seems about the same size as some generic barrel systems so I assume that's about right?
My current thinking is that I could just remove the IC and this system might be quite solid.
For info - car is mod'd with mostly bolt-ons (hybrid turbo, VXR injectors + MAF, 3" exhaust, re-map, 70mm inlet system, etc).
Any help would be much appreciated.
That's halving the area, which is a massive reduction. What size is the rest of the induction system? If it was already 50mm then that reduction has to happen somewhere, and the charge cooler outlet is as good a place as any other. But if you're choking it down to 50mm here and it has to expand further downstream, that's a terrible idea.
Also keep in mind that the charge cooler will reduce the charge temperature, pressure and volume - this means it requires a smaller inlet for a given mass flow rate and pressure drop. But not halving the area, unless you're achieving a huge termperature drop.
I would have thought you want an air-air cooler or an air-water cooler, but not both. If they're properly sized then the downstream cooler would be producing diminishing returns but you're still incurring the full pressure drop from it. So I'd expect the new cooler to be instead of the old cooler rather than in addition.
Also keep in mind that the charge cooler will reduce the charge temperature, pressure and volume - this means it requires a smaller inlet for a given mass flow rate and pressure drop. But not halving the area, unless you're achieving a huge termperature drop.
I would have thought you want an air-air cooler or an air-water cooler, but not both. If they're properly sized then the downstream cooler would be producing diminishing returns but you're still incurring the full pressure drop from it. So I'd expect the new cooler to be instead of the old cooler rather than in addition.
DanHF said:
Ah, you're saying you'd expect the inlet to be smaller?
If the connections are different sizes, I'd expect the smaller connection to be on the engine (outlet) side of the charge cooler, since the charge cools and contracts within the cooler. The outlet from the charge cooler should usually be the same size as the rest of the downstream induction and throttle body. GreenV8S said:
If the connections are different sizes, I'd expect the smaller connection to be on the engine (outlet) side of the charge cooler, since the charge cools and contracts within the cooler. The outlet from the charge cooler should usually be the same size as the rest of the downstream induction and throttle body.
Yep, they're defo different sizes so yes, that is the situation we're in. That's good.With regard to the Intercooler / CC in series - as you say, most installs get rid of the IC but not all. Do you think this in-series IC>CC will cause issues? I'm quite confused as to why they did it as it strikes me that removing stuff is a good thing generally!
DanHF said:
Do you think this in-series IC>CC will cause issues?
There will be more restriction, and possibly better cooling. As to which effect is greater - I have no idea, but if you trusted this supplier well enough to buy their system and that's what they specified then have have to assume it will give a net benefit. It seems strange to me, though.DanHF said:
Hi all,
It's been a while since I've had a car worth modifying but I'm trying to work something out and would appreciate some advice.
I have a VX220 Turbo and I've bought a 2nd hand Chargecooler kit for it. This kit (sold by Thorney Motorsport (TMS) - made by AH Fabrications) divided the VX guys back in the day but the forum was quite rowdy at the time so it's difficult to see the wood for the trees in terms of hard facts vs "bro science" vs agendas.
I'm not looking for dragster-power - just a solid, stable environment from which to do a decent map that I can use for road and track days. Looking for flat torque curve rather than 'boosty' and I'm hoping the CC will make it a little more stable so I'm just looking for an improvement over standard rather than the ultimate solution. For context, the kit cost me circa £300.
The TMC kit consists of a small front-mounted rad, coolant pipes that run the length of the car, a coolant tank with the pump mounted at the bottom and then the chargecooler brick/barrel. It's VERY well made but I'm just trying to get some perspective on the aspects that really matter.
1. The TMC has the CC 'brick' (or barrel) in series behind the air-to-air IC - I understand this is sub-optimal due to pressure drop.
Is this just a technical pressure drop or will it affect real world performance / 'feel'?
I've had a look at generic CC systems and they all bin the intercooler so I'm assuming this is a real world issue.
2. It looks like the output end of the brick is 50mm and input 70mm
My inlet system is 70mm - is the reduction to 50mm an issue? It would seem to be by design as they could have made both ends 70mm - strikes me as slightly odd.
3. There is a front mounted radiator that is quite small - 100mm high x 170mm
Is this 'man' enough?
4. The brick itself is about 300mm l x 150x h x 80 w
This seems about the same size as some generic barrel systems so I assume that's about right?
My current thinking is that I could just remove the IC and this system might be quite solid.
For info - car is mod'd with mostly bolt-ons (hybrid turbo, VXR injectors + MAF, 3" exhaust, re-map, 70mm inlet system, etc).
Any help would be much appreciated.
pics would help.It's been a while since I've had a car worth modifying but I'm trying to work something out and would appreciate some advice.
I have a VX220 Turbo and I've bought a 2nd hand Chargecooler kit for it. This kit (sold by Thorney Motorsport (TMS) - made by AH Fabrications) divided the VX guys back in the day but the forum was quite rowdy at the time so it's difficult to see the wood for the trees in terms of hard facts vs "bro science" vs agendas.
I'm not looking for dragster-power - just a solid, stable environment from which to do a decent map that I can use for road and track days. Looking for flat torque curve rather than 'boosty' and I'm hoping the CC will make it a little more stable so I'm just looking for an improvement over standard rather than the ultimate solution. For context, the kit cost me circa £300.
The TMC kit consists of a small front-mounted rad, coolant pipes that run the length of the car, a coolant tank with the pump mounted at the bottom and then the chargecooler brick/barrel. It's VERY well made but I'm just trying to get some perspective on the aspects that really matter.
1. The TMC has the CC 'brick' (or barrel) in series behind the air-to-air IC - I understand this is sub-optimal due to pressure drop.
Is this just a technical pressure drop or will it affect real world performance / 'feel'?
I've had a look at generic CC systems and they all bin the intercooler so I'm assuming this is a real world issue.
2. It looks like the output end of the brick is 50mm and input 70mm
My inlet system is 70mm - is the reduction to 50mm an issue? It would seem to be by design as they could have made both ends 70mm - strikes me as slightly odd.
3. There is a front mounted radiator that is quite small - 100mm high x 170mm
Is this 'man' enough?
4. The brick itself is about 300mm l x 150x h x 80 w
This seems about the same size as some generic barrel systems so I assume that's about right?
My current thinking is that I could just remove the IC and this system might be quite solid.
For info - car is mod'd with mostly bolt-ons (hybrid turbo, VXR injectors + MAF, 3" exhaust, re-map, 70mm inlet system, etc).
Any help would be much appreciated.
1. Yes, 2 in series sounds bad. Get 1 big good quality core.
2. Hose sizes...it does seem odd. However, the outlet on your turbo is likely only 50mm....50mm will support a lot of power boosted. It is not really a concern, even if a little odd.
3. again, pics, but sounds ridiculously small, go big like a proper kit. It makes little sense to have a small water rad, when there is room for more. Unless it's tried and tested and weight is critical.
4. Barrells...whilst I've seen a couple post they use them and they like them, certainly over the last couple of decades, I've seen few good reports about barrel style coolers.
Maybe they've improved though.
But you're hoping it will be more stable...are charge temps very unstable at present ? If you can get a good A2A core in the ear with good airflow....that will be the simplest.
stevieturbo said:
pics would help.
1. Yes, 2 in series sounds bad. Get 1 big good quality core.
2. Hose sizes...it does seem odd. However, the outlet on your turbo is likely only 50mm....50mm will support a lot of power boosted. It is not really a concern, even if a little odd.
3. again, pics, but sounds ridiculously small, go big like a proper kit. It makes little sense to have a small water rad, when there is room for more. Unless it's tried and tested and weight is critical.
4. Barrells...whilst I've seen a couple post they use them and they like them, certainly over the last couple of decades, I've seen few good reports about barrel style coolers.
Maybe they've improved though.
But you're hoping it will be more stable...are charge temps very unstable at present ? If you can get a good A2A core in the ear with good airflow....that will be the simplest.
Pics attached. 1. Yes, 2 in series sounds bad. Get 1 big good quality core.
2. Hose sizes...it does seem odd. However, the outlet on your turbo is likely only 50mm....50mm will support a lot of power boosted. It is not really a concern, even if a little odd.
3. again, pics, but sounds ridiculously small, go big like a proper kit. It makes little sense to have a small water rad, when there is room for more. Unless it's tried and tested and weight is critical.
4. Barrells...whilst I've seen a couple post they use them and they like them, certainly over the last couple of decades, I've seen few good reports about barrel style coolers.
Maybe they've improved though.
But you're hoping it will be more stable...are charge temps very unstable at present ? If you can get a good A2A core in the ear with good airflow....that will be the simplest.
1. Can you explain to my why it's bad. I understand it's related to pressure drop but I'm just trying to work out if this is a technical thing or if it actually has a significant/noticeable impact.
2. Noted.
3. I think the reason they went this route was that there's discussion about whether one big rad, sandwiched onto the coolant rad (which is the only way to increase the CC rad size) was a good idea so he went for a small, straight-on grill mounted CC radiator and left the (slanted) coolant rad alone. Packaging in the VX is an issue.
4. Sorry, I refer to it as a barrel - it's a brick
With regard to temps being unstable - given the size and location of the intercooler, airflow is not good and this is known as an issue on VX's so given this kit was a bit of a bargain and I'm seeking stable temps for track days and road use, it felt a good idea. So I agree A2A is simplest (by far!) but I'd be fighting physics. I don't see many VX owners with upgraded A2A IC, they tend to go water mist or CC.
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Edited by DanHF on Tuesday 2nd September 06:32
Edited by DanHF on Tuesday 2nd September 06:37
Did they intend that air to water core cooling to be at the rear in one of the ears ? And not at the front of the car ? hence the small size ? Was it yourself or another guy asking about adding fans to the ear mounted coolers recently on FB ?
The actual A2W unit doesn't look too bad, AH Fabrications make decent stuff....interesting a recent post on FB group had a guy with one very similar that was leaking coolant into the air side, I think there was a small crack or something.
Can you pressure test yours ? Any signs in the ai side of any coolant or water ?
When I switched from SC to turbo, I re-used the full size front water rad, but fitted a McLaren core at the rear under the clam, one of these. These use 70mm pipes. My turbo outlet is 2.5" so this worked well to keep fairly even pipes throughout.
I still use a std 54mm throttle blade though, as there simply is no need for larger even up to around 500hp, and a small blade ensures fairly linear response under foot. Certainly measuring pressure before and after it is not a restriction on mine.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334667007497
They're a really nice piece, and fairly cheap second hand for the quality. So far it's working great for me. Fin density in the core is very high, so will be very good at cooling.
Ultimately if you only do short blasts on the road, lack of solid cool air cooling is maybe not a big deal, as you are less likely to overload the system.
If you did longer track use, then maybe the small setup might get overloaded.
My max use is generally around a 2min lap, obviously you're not on full throttle that entire time. I see water temps post cooler of around 60-70degC, but charge temps remain pretty good, usually 30-40 tops ( aside from heat soak when queuing, sitting stationary etc )
On the road things stay fairly cool all the time, as there's always good airflow.
One time the CC pump failed and a pipe burst ( my fault for using a short section of clear pipe to visualise any air in the system ), I seen charge temps post cooler of around 110degC, although I also had water injection which the sensor after the WI nozzle was still showing 50-60deg, so that was helpful in that instance.
But was interesting to see how high charge temps get with almost no actual cooling from the charge cooler setup. ( It probably did remove some heat even with no water in it )
I've never monitored temps pre-cooler though, would likely need a thermocouple in there as they could be over the range of a typical air temp sensor.
I have provision for more monitoring, just haven't felt the need to spend the money on a load of fast response TC's for now.
The actual A2W unit doesn't look too bad, AH Fabrications make decent stuff....interesting a recent post on FB group had a guy with one very similar that was leaking coolant into the air side, I think there was a small crack or something.
Can you pressure test yours ? Any signs in the ai side of any coolant or water ?
When I switched from SC to turbo, I re-used the full size front water rad, but fitted a McLaren core at the rear under the clam, one of these. These use 70mm pipes. My turbo outlet is 2.5" so this worked well to keep fairly even pipes throughout.
I still use a std 54mm throttle blade though, as there simply is no need for larger even up to around 500hp, and a small blade ensures fairly linear response under foot. Certainly measuring pressure before and after it is not a restriction on mine.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334667007497
They're a really nice piece, and fairly cheap second hand for the quality. So far it's working great for me. Fin density in the core is very high, so will be very good at cooling.
Ultimately if you only do short blasts on the road, lack of solid cool air cooling is maybe not a big deal, as you are less likely to overload the system.
If you did longer track use, then maybe the small setup might get overloaded.
My max use is generally around a 2min lap, obviously you're not on full throttle that entire time. I see water temps post cooler of around 60-70degC, but charge temps remain pretty good, usually 30-40 tops ( aside from heat soak when queuing, sitting stationary etc )
On the road things stay fairly cool all the time, as there's always good airflow.
One time the CC pump failed and a pipe burst ( my fault for using a short section of clear pipe to visualise any air in the system ), I seen charge temps post cooler of around 110degC, although I also had water injection which the sensor after the WI nozzle was still showing 50-60deg, so that was helpful in that instance.
But was interesting to see how high charge temps get with almost no actual cooling from the charge cooler setup. ( It probably did remove some heat even with no water in it )
I've never monitored temps pre-cooler though, would likely need a thermocouple in there as they could be over the range of a typical air temp sensor.
I have provision for more monitoring, just haven't felt the need to spend the money on a load of fast response TC's for now.
DanHF said:
So I agree A2A is simplest (by far!) but I'd be fighting physics. I don't see many VX owners with upgraded A2A IC, they tend to go water mist or CC.
Many go with or follow the crowd. Or just don't know.Garrett make superb IC cores these days, far better than anything that would have been available back 10-15 years ago.
Lots of people will also have learnt more these days etc. I don't know how much airflow the ears actually get, but they do stick out. I'm sure a custom made Garrett cored A2A could work very well, well ducted to ensure all the cold air gets in. With maybe a fan in the system.
However.....just not sure how well any hot air might get expelled from the clam which would also be an important factor. You need cold air in, but equally the hot air needs somewhere to get out.
If it was me, I'd be doing what I did ( lol ). Use a large front water rad. They fit, they're proven, large is good....and you could certainly try that rear AH core and see how you get on. If it isn't sufficient, then look to something better.
Given the power etc of a McLaren ( 2 cores in one car obviously ) I'm sure a 300hp VX could run that all day and it'd still be very efficient. A McLaren would only be about 300hp per side and I'm sure they'll run all day on track.
Mine does make more, and I'm perfectly happy with how it works.
I use a small Davies craig pump EBP25 after the initial large Bosch one failed. The DC claims a lot of flow, flow is good. Plus it's quite small and they claim low current from the brushless design
Edited by stevieturbo on Tuesday 2nd September 10:11
stevieturbo said:
Did they intend that air to water core cooling to be at the rear in one of the ears ? And not at the front of the car ? hence the small size ? Was it yourself or another guy asking about adding fans to the ear mounted coolers recently on FB ?
The actual A2W unit doesn't look too bad, AH Fabrications make decent stuff....interesting a recent post on FB group had a guy with one very similar that was leaking coolant into the air side, I think there was a small crack or something.
Can you pressure test yours ? Any signs in the ai side of any coolant or water ?
When I switched from SC to turbo, I re-used the full size front water rad, but fitted a McLaren core at the rear under the clam, one of these. These use 70mm pipes. My turbo outlet is 2.5" so this worked well to keep fairly even pipes throughout.
I still use a std 54mm throttle blade though, as there simply is no need for larger even up to around 500hp, and a small blade ensures fairly linear response under foot. Certainly measuring pressure before and after it is not a restriction on mine.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334667007497
They're a really nice piece, and fairly cheap second hand for the quality. So far it's working great for me. Fin density in the core is very high, so will be very good at cooling.
Ultimately if you only do short blasts on the road, lack of solid cool air cooling is maybe not a big deal, as you are less likely to overload the system.
If you did longer track use, then maybe the small setup might get overloaded.
Firstly, really appreciate the help here.The actual A2W unit doesn't look too bad, AH Fabrications make decent stuff....interesting a recent post on FB group had a guy with one very similar that was leaking coolant into the air side, I think there was a small crack or something.
Can you pressure test yours ? Any signs in the ai side of any coolant or water ?
When I switched from SC to turbo, I re-used the full size front water rad, but fitted a McLaren core at the rear under the clam, one of these. These use 70mm pipes. My turbo outlet is 2.5" so this worked well to keep fairly even pipes throughout.
I still use a std 54mm throttle blade though, as there simply is no need for larger even up to around 500hp, and a small blade ensures fairly linear response under foot. Certainly measuring pressure before and after it is not a restriction on mine.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334667007497
They're a really nice piece, and fairly cheap second hand for the quality. So far it's working great for me. Fin density in the core is very high, so will be very good at cooling.
Ultimately if you only do short blasts on the road, lack of solid cool air cooling is maybe not a big deal, as you are less likely to overload the system.
If you did longer track use, then maybe the small setup might get overloaded.
I am on the FB group but no, that wasn't me that asked about the fans.
Good shout on the pressure test - I'll do that but the fins, etc look in superb condition (from what I can see!).
Sorry, with regard to the McLaren bit - that's effectively a replacement for my TMS/AH core? By under the clam - do you mean in the ear?
stevieturbo said:
Many go with or follow the crowd. Or just don't know.
Garrett make superb IC cores these days, far better than anything that would have been available back 10-15 years ago.
Lots of people will also have learnt more these days etc. I don't know how much airflow the ears actually get, but they do stick out. I'm sure a custom made Garrett cored A2A could work very well, well ducted to ensure all the cold air gets in. With maybe a fan in the system.
However.....just not sure how well any hot air might get expelled from the clam which would also be an important factor. You need cold air in, but equally the hot air needs somewhere to get out.
I think I'm caught in this daft loop of:Garrett make superb IC cores these days, far better than anything that would have been available back 10-15 years ago.
Lots of people will also have learnt more these days etc. I don't know how much airflow the ears actually get, but they do stick out. I'm sure a custom made Garrett cored A2A could work very well, well ducted to ensure all the cold air gets in. With maybe a fan in the system.
However.....just not sure how well any hot air might get expelled from the clam which would also be an important factor. You need cold air in, but equally the hot air needs somewhere to get out.
1. This TMS system should fit pretty well and keep things consistent. I can upgrade over time if needed as the main work is in the pipe laying (as it were!)
vs
2. Get a decent, modern A2A but then know it's not quite as good as it could be
vs
3. Throw the TMS away and go for another route. But at a £ cost.
I'm leaning toward option 1 as I can always upgrade if necessary.
Edited by DanHF on Tuesday 2nd September 13:46
The McLaren A2W core could be mounted anywhere you have room. As shown in my pic. It is not directly in the ear/airflow, as it does not need to be.
And yes, it would be instead of the A&H alloy A2W core. Although as said, that AH core doesn't look terrible at all and they do nice work.
But Yes, as you have these parts now there would be some sense in trying them. Depends how much work you're doing yourself, or paying to have done and what it might cost to have redone if it doesn't work as planned.
Doing things multiple times always ends up more costly though, and a pain in the arse. Although it's easy for me as I do everything myself anyway
And yes, it would be instead of the A&H alloy A2W core. Although as said, that AH core doesn't look terrible at all and they do nice work.
But Yes, as you have these parts now there would be some sense in trying them. Depends how much work you're doing yourself, or paying to have done and what it might cost to have redone if it doesn't work as planned.
Doing things multiple times always ends up more costly though, and a pain in the arse. Although it's easy for me as I do everything myself anyway
stevieturbo said:
Thanks for that! Whilst it does appear to be in great condition inside (from what I can see), his does too. And it's 20+ years old so perhaps overall, I'm best off just doing this right (as you suggested).Anyone want a TMS Chargecooler kit..?
Guess I can still use the pipe, tank and pump setup (Davies Craig) but a new front rad and core seem to be in order.
DanHF said:
Thanks for that! Whilst it does appear to be in great condition inside (from what I can see), his does too. And it's 20+ years old so perhaps overall, I'm best off just doing this right (as you suggested).
Anyone want a TMS Chargecooler kit..?
Guess I can still use the pipe, tank and pump setup (Davies Craig) but a new front rad and core seem to be in order.
A simple pressure test would be useful to verify for any leaks.Anyone want a TMS Chargecooler kit..?
Guess I can still use the pipe, tank and pump setup (Davies Craig) but a new front rad and core seem to be in order.
But yes, the pump hoses, the header tank etc all look very usable. The front rad too, but personally I'd prefer bigger, simply because they are available and do fit, and extra water capacity is a good thing in terms of stability.
stevieturbo said:
A simple pressure test would be useful to verify for any leaks.
But yes, the pump hoses, the header tank etc all look very usable. The front rad too, but personally I'd prefer bigger, simply because they are available and do fit, and extra water capacity is a good thing in terms of stability.
I assume you sandwiched the rad? Seems slightly counter intuitive (compromising the standard cooling and sub-optimal CC cooling) but lots have done it.But yes, the pump hoses, the header tank etc all look very usable. The front rad too, but personally I'd prefer bigger, simply because they are available and do fit, and extra water capacity is a good thing in terms of stability.
I think the big thing is that the tech around core cooling have moved on so perhaps I'll use a different barrel/core. Just now trying to work out whether it's best to go for a good parts-bin option (McLaren, BMW, etc) or an aftermarket barrel type (PWR for eg).
My thinking is that the parts-bin jobs will be thoroughly engineered (i.e. part of multi-million £ projects, longevity, etc) so could be cheaper and more efficient.
I don't suppose you have the dimensions of the McLaren one do you? Can't seem to find that info online. Cheers
DanHF said:
I assume you sandwiched the rad? Seems slightly counter intuitive (compromising the standard cooling and sub-optimal CC cooling) but lots have done it.
I think the big thing is that the tech around core cooling have moved on so perhaps I'll use a different barrel/core. Just now trying to work out whether it's best to go for a good parts-bin option (McLaren, BMW, etc) or an aftermarket barrel type (PWR for eg).
My thinking is that the parts-bin jobs will be thoroughly engineered (i.e. part of multi-million £ projects, longevity, etc) so could be cheaper and more efficient.
I don't suppose you have the dimensions of the McLaren one do you? Can't seem to find that info online. Cheers
The front rad was already fitted to the car I bought. But the two rads are stacked on top of each other, it seems a proven setup. CC rad first, and engine rad on top. Mine only has a single fan, so may have been an early or cheap setup ? Not sure. Most online I can see have two fans. But I've had no cooling issues yet. Although weather here wouldn't exactly be toasty very often either, but I've had a few warm daysI think the big thing is that the tech around core cooling have moved on so perhaps I'll use a different barrel/core. Just now trying to work out whether it's best to go for a good parts-bin option (McLaren, BMW, etc) or an aftermarket barrel type (PWR for eg).
My thinking is that the parts-bin jobs will be thoroughly engineered (i.e. part of multi-million £ projects, longevity, etc) so could be cheaper and more efficient.
I don't suppose you have the dimensions of the McLaren one do you? Can't seem to find that info online. Cheers
Relatively easy to add more fans if needed though
And yes, OEM do a ton on research and testing. Lots of aftermarket cores are just ok, some terrible looking. I did consider BMW stuff too, but a lot had dual in/out, or had plastic end tanks, so would be difficult to re-work if needed.
The Mclaren one just seems to work perfect for what I wanted to do without any real alterations to the unit itself.
Pic of internals, not a super photo, but fin density is very high, so should cool very well. But it still has good volume to flow. And I'm sure in the McLaren application, has plenty of over capacity so would have no real issues for me. Also water channels fairly thin too, which should help vs a lot of cheap cores which have huge waterways
I'll get some dimensions later.
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