Tig welders....

[stevieturbo]

Ive wanted one for ages, and I think Im ready to have a go...

But which one to buy ????

I had considered buying from the US, but dont think it worth the hassle/risk. Must be 240v

So, there's this US Thermal Arc 200 amp machine.
www.thewelderswarehouse.com/acatalog/Thermal-Arc_200_AC_DC.html

And they are offering 10% off if ordered before Jan 2nd... Still makes it around £1800 incl vat incl the foot pedal.

Or found this british machine, which seems to offer more for the money.
www.r-techwelding.co.uk/products.php?catid=1

No foot pedal mentioned, but for £1700 or so, it was a nice long lead and a water cooled torch.

Anyone any other suggestions ??

I want something easy to use on thin alu ( never done tig before ), but obviously access to spare parts and a good warranty/reliability are very important.
Damn credit card is burning a hole in my pocket here

[eliot]

If you’re spending that much money, make sure you select a brand that can supply parts for the long-term. It's worth finding out who your local welder engineer or rep is, as they know which ones work the best and usually have access to second-hand units.
Definitely get the foot pedal (variable current)
Two stage argon regulator (the one with the little flow gauge/sight-glass) is easier to use

Rods:
5% magnesium for ally sheet – 1.6mm for thin, 2.4mm for most other stuff.
5% or even 10% silicon for cast ally.
Tungstens:
Thoriated Red Tungsten Electrode for Steel
And Zirconiated White’s for Ally

Pure technical Argon – I have to pay £8.00 a month rental on the bottle.

Get a dimming mask
Steel plate for your bench – very handy, keeps things flat and can just start welding straight away.
Varios lumps of heavy metal to prop and hold things in place.

Not sure if inverting welders use as much power as old skool transformer ones, but this consumed 33Kw of electricity to weld (£6.00)


hth,
Eliot.

[stevieturbo]

Thanks Eliot....TBH, I havent spoken to any local guys yet, although 2nd hand units seem rare, even on ebay etc... At least single phase anyway.
I cant see them being able to match the prices though, at least not the R-Tech stuff....
Im hoping never to need direct local support, as Im hoping whatever I buy, will work !!!
Its primarily DIY, so it will only see light use really.

I currently have Argoshield light for the MIG, but have been informed that I must use pureshiled Argon..no big deal, as I'll just swap my ( half full ) bottle. lol

I spoke to the guy at R-tech today... Seems like a nice guy. He says Morgan ( as listed on their website ) use their machines, as do Forge Motorsport and Spec-R.
I'd hope he isnt making that up, but if true, its a pretty good sign for starters. Morgan is endorsed on their website, so that must be official reccomendation from them.

His units are also keenly priced, and have a 2 year warranty. I am extremely tempted...
I dont mind spending the money on a big name, but if I can get quality product for less, I do want the savings.

[eliot]

I run the mig on C02, I did try pure argon which seemed to work fine too. TBH, I never use the mig anymore - TIG is far better and easier to get reasonable looking results.
I saw this on the 'bay:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TIG-WELDER-AC-D

might be worth dropping him an email asking his opinion on your desired welder - if he's genuine he might offer some free advise.

eta; just noticed he's the bloke selling the 50k rover engine - check his other items.

Edited by eliot on Thursday 28th December 16:40

[stevieturbo]

I contacted one of the 201 R-tech purchasers on ebay... He seems happy with it, but said make sure you get the foot control...

Awaiting response from 2 others ..

With the discount, the Thermal Arc 200A machine works out around £1700 + postage, but with few accessories, but does include pedal.

The R-Tech would be £1445 with pedal, but does come with a reg, and some other goodies to get started. The price diff isnt huge.

I was at a local supplier today. They had a Lincoln Invertec 200A machine, Ex Demo for £1900 + VAT !!!!! then pedal etc on top of that.

I think not !!

Ive emailed the guy you mention on ebay too....I see he has a couple of Tigs for sale...

Edited by stevieturbo on Thursday 28th December 16:56

[eliot]

My 20+ year old, 250A water cooled Miller cost me......... £130
Although it sucks the juice - needs a 60 Amp feed.

[love machine]

Stevie, how about a cheaper inverter? If you're not going pro, it's probably a step to think about. Transformer tech has moved on a LOT and I imagine the arcs are quite stable.

I want a TIG and am probably going for a sub 100A model, I'll use my mates BIG mig to join big stuff together.

What are you doing, what do you plan to do?

I think a small one is good for ally tanks. I also worked with some blokes doing stainless pipes with a portable one and it was fine.

I'm interested in doing rare metals, ie:- titanium, etc.

[eliot]

love machine said:

I want a TIG and am probably going for a sub 100A model, I'll use my mates BIG mig to join big stuff together.

That sounds very low - i'm trying to think what the low range is on my tig, but put it this way i never use it. I would aim for 150A if you have access to a bigger tig or 200A if its your'e only one. Nothing worse than a sunday afternoon when you want to weld up a 5mm ally bracket and you have to call your mate up....

Edited by eliot on Friday 29th December 10:13

[falcemob]

love machine said:

Stevie, how about a cheaper inverter? If you're not going pro, it's probably a step to think about. Transformer tech has moved on a LOT and I imagine the arcs are quite stable.

I want a TIG and am probably going for a sub 100A model, I'll use my mates BIG mig to join big stuff together.

What are you doing, what do you plan to do?

I think a small one is good for ally tanks. I also worked with some blokes doing stainless pipes with a portable one and it was fine.

I'm interested in doing rare metals, ie:- titanium, etc.

I was told by someone who used to do a lot of welding (ex dragster builder) to get the most powerful one you can afford. Apparently you need a lot of power for welding Ali as it absorbs the heat quickly.

[DrDeAtH]

you could always pop to a welding eqpt suppliers, most of them have a workshop out back where you can play for a while...

try looking at www.welduk.com have had good dealings with them in the past when buying online.

what about trying one of the new digital inverters that are fairly compact?

[Julian64]

I have the thermal arc AC/DC 200 which I bought in august from the welderswearhouse.

Let me know if theres anything I can help you with.

P.S. under 100 AMP the machine does squat diddly. P.S. if you can, get a second hand argon cylinder of a decent size from ebay.

[love machine]

Yeah, 100A is probably a bit low.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/tig-Inverter-we

That looks like the sort of thing I would go for. It hasn't got a fancy pulse function or anything, I'd perhaps ask "Is that necessary though?"

Years ago I had a rusty Morris Minor and my dad bought me a 140w arc welder for £25 and the arc was terrible. BUT, it taught me how to weld the impossible with shit equipment. I'm sure I could get away without.......etc.

Having said, I used to use a normal (non reactive mask) and I don't know how I did........

Big is beautiful but they are rare secondhand.

Mine will get lowish use and so a huge investment is overkill. However, I would like a good tool Where is the compromise line?

[Julian64]

High fequency start is a must for me, as arc start is a bit messy. So far I've been welding mostly 2.5 mm mild steel which is requiring 100 amp to do a decent penetration butt weld.

But for auotmotive use I would'nt move away from mig welding. Tig is pretty useless for quick tacking, which works so well with Mig. And for rusty old morris minors where adding metal is a biggy, you probably want the big spool of mig wire to help you.

Trying to balance with no hands free is also a pain with tig.

Best to do what I did which is throw out the Oxy acet gear, and have Argon shield to use with tig or migdepending on what your doing.

P.S.s thremal arc 200AC/DC is an inverter, works fine off 13amp, never needed the water, but probably only do 30=40% duty time with my skill.

[stevieturbo]

I am leaning towards the R-Tech units. Got responses from a coiple of purchasers, and they seem quite happy with it.

100A would be a waste of time and money, and probably only DC.

The main reason im buying, is so I can weld aluminium. I have no intention of dumping my MIG gear. Argon isnt a problem, I'll just switch my argoshield light for pure argon.

I am tempted by the Thermal Arc, but Id get a bit more kit, for some £300 less. It isnt a huge amount of money in the overall scheme of things, but its still money.

One way or another, I'll have a machine by next weekend.

I did call into one local supplier...as expected their prices were incredible. I just dont think any local supplier can compete with web prices.

[Julian64]

Nope, but am using BOC argonshield not pureshield works fine both alum and steel. See no reason to change.

[teeev]

I bought one of these a while ago-
www.diywelding.co.uk/product_details.asp?d=3&c=53&p={112A0C17-5FD8-463D-9FE2-28AAEFFD4CAA}

After a bit of practice I'm pleased with the standard of welding that it/I have managed (i also got a foot pedal with it)

[eliot]

Julian64 said:

Nope, but am using BOC argonshield not pureshield works fine both alum and steel. See no reason to change.

Pretty sure you should be using pure argon, my dad and a pro welder both said dont use anything else.

[eliot]

falcemob said:

I was told by someone who used to do a lot of welding (ex dragster builder) to get the most powerful one you can afford. Apparently you need a lot of power for welding Ali as it absorbs the heat quickly.

Yes this is very true. Even on thin ally you need much more current than equiv steel gauge.

Pre-heating helps though, but this manifold was very thick.

[stevieturbo]

eliot said:

Julian64 said:

Nope, but am using BOC argonshield not pureshield works fine both alum and steel. See no reason to change.

Pretty sure you should be using pure argon, my dad and a pro welder both said dont use anything else.

Robert at R-Tech said you must use pure argon. Due to how the welds are formed, argoshield doesnt protect it properly, and will produce dirty welds, and make it harder to weld.

I dont know the technical side of things, but there must be reasons, as everyone says you must use pure argon for tig.

[dern]

It might be worth contacting Mark (CaLviNx) on locost builders as he was organising a group buy for 200amp tig sets from somewhere or other for 400 quid incl torch, earth lead and foot pedal delivered. They are already en-route to us but I seem to recall that he was ordering an extra set or two or he may be happy to put your name down on the list should anyone drop out. The cost was a 200 quid deposit followed by the balance just before he ships them to us.

The thread is...

www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=54029

Regards,

Mark