Tuning a Honda V6 (ex Rover 827)

[vojx]

i own a Stratos kitcar with the 2.7L V6 out of a G-reg Rover 827 (ca 1987?). Its a SOHC, 24valve Honda lump. its got about 40000 miles on it, but not been used for 6 years. while i'm redoing the kit, i'll have to do some work on the engine, and why not tune it up a bit.

apart from a custom made (very loud ) exhaust and lightened fly wheel its bog standard. i'm not after 500bhp like turbonutter wants in his Stratos, but maybe 250-300bhp - 110bhp/ton should be feasible.

is there someone reputable that can do it, or perhaps just some cams and aftermarket ECU and injectors?

what say you experts???

[Xenocide]

Have you had the exhaust made? If so where did you get it done?

Ta.

[That Daddy]

Yes you can do some porting work on the heads with good results,but i think if h/p is what your after then a cams swap is on the cards & bigger throttle body(poss even look into Turbocharging)i will mention you are not going to get buddles of easy H/P from this motor,even though its been standing if that mileage is genuine then all it will need is a cambelt change and oil & filter change,word of warning use fully synthetic oil because the hydraulic tappets can gum up and get noisy,you dont want to go down that road the internals are very expensive,but it will take as much abuse as you can through at it, providing you maintain it.Good luck.

[chuntington101]

honda units are normally very strong and take boost very well! i would look into turbocharging. a nice little T34 of a cossy would probably get you to your goals with very little lag. alternatively if you can find a cheap diesel turbo look for something of around 6.0ltr.

thanks Chris.

[Marquis_Rex]

You'd be hard pushed to get 300 Bhp out of that lump naturally aspirated- not one of their more reknowned engines.
It came with 177 Bhp as standard and to get your target you would need revs. The valve gear wasn't designed to rev that high on that engine. Just cams and "mapping" won't do it.
Look on the internet on specialised forums to see if anyone does specialised tuning bits for that engine- you need to find out what the specific weak points of that engine are when you rev it above 7500 rpm. If you're lucky it won't be the crankshaft. If you're also lucky what ever the weak point is- there are after market strenthened items availiable. You will need remapping in addition, but base engine modifications are almost certainly required.

And can we get out of the notion that "just a chip" and clever mapping willl yield lots of horse power. It WON'T! No debates , no bullshyte, it just won't- it's fanatasy!

[skinnyboy]

they leak like sieves the C27 engines, my neice has a C27 Legend Coupe and its currently getting a JDM engine thrown in it. Make sure you buy a seal master kit and do the main seals whilst your doing the cambelt.

[cnhss1]

iirc QED or SBD did some work with these engines?

[vojx]

Ta for the replies so far.

The guy who made the exhaust emigrated to S Africa a few years back - he used to make the chassis for the Stratos too

not too keen on turbocharging, cos of foresaid exhaust would need moding / scrapping, and where to fit 2 turbos (1 per bank i presume)? front one is next to fuel tank, rear has a few chassis rails in the way. now supercharging, the blower sitting in the V and there is a spare pulley on the crank (used to run power steering)

porting - that was one of the things i was gonna do, but not too radical

revving to 9000 rpm was possible with a rally Stratos replica with such a motor (think it blew up eventually though), but 7500 would be useful - could bring in 25+ bhp. i know a new ECU wont bring in masses of power, but will tune the engine better to the porting, change of air filter (ram-air effect perhaps?), free-flowing exhaust and give a higher rpm. surely 250 bhp is achieveable?

thanks for the tip, will replace seals also.

shall search AGAIN for specific tuning info - are there no UK specialists?

now if there were a 3.2L NSX engine going cheap . . .

[vojx]

been wondering whether to go for a V6 out of the Audi S3 or RS3, or V8 from S4 or RS4, but can an AWD drivetrain be made to work when placed at the back? finding a scrapper may be difficult

i think the V10 with 500+ PS (was it an S6 or S8? dont remember) may be too heavy for the short wheelbase of a Stratos

[Pigeon]

vojx said:

now supercharging, the blower sitting in the V and there is a spare pulley on the crank (used to run power steering)

Just what I was gonna mention

vojx said:

i know a new ECU wont bring in masses of power, but will tune the engine better to the porting, change of air filter (ram-air effect perhaps?), free-flowing exhaust and give a higher rpm.

Think of ECU changes as more or less equivalent to rejetting the carb on a carburetted engine, as something you do to make the fuel delivery appropriate to whatever else you've done to the engine.

WRT ram-air effect, the overpressure available due to the forward motion of the vehicle is negligible at any speed which is practical under non-exceptional road conditions (and certainly at any speed which is legal). If you're instead referring to induction tract tuning, I'm pretty sure it's these engines on which Honda brought out their variable-length intake manifold, which is going to be worth sticking with if you can.

[grahambell]

Think you'll struggle to get tuning bits for that engine as it was always fitted to 'exec cruiser' type cars.

However, so seem to remember another Stratos replica running one with triple Webers and producing around 230bhp. Was used for rallying about 15 years back so be difficult to get any info.

Also remember the guys behind the Rover 827 based Phantom GTR saying a few US firms did some tuning bits for the Honda V6, so try a Google on Honda Legend tuning.

[that daddy]

they leak like sieves (quote)Really not one i have ever come across,are we finding problems with this engine that dont exist,i think 220bhp should be possible with out to much work,just remember you will not get a great deal from porting as in other engines,the port shape/finish tends to be very good including the inlet divider(thats normally knifedged standard)a good superchip or similar mod will improve the fueling(very lean)induction mods & exhaust system is where you will see worthwhile gains,that engine will be quite happy at 7.5k.

[vojx]

the current exhaust seems pretty unrestrictive (its length was tuned for high rpm rather than midrange), probably around 200bhp. So some port polishing (wont hurt, maybe gain 5 bhp) and a new ECU / chip to rev to 7500 should give 230 bhp.

another 20 - 70 bhp? from cams and pistons or a compressor. i prefer the compressor route. From a Merc possibly, or aftermarket? I'll go search. . .

[sumplug]

Honda 2.7 heads are poor and crack causing head gasket problems. thats why so many of them got scrapped, because to put right, cost around £1500!
The engine to use is the Alfa 3.0 or 3.2 V6. This is the engine usually used in the transformer cars. And it makes a gorgerous sound and with polished intake pipes, looks gorgerous in the Stratos. Engines can be picked up for a song.

Andy.

[That Daddy]

sumplug said:

Honda 2.7 heads are poor and crack causing head gasket problems. thats why so many of them got scrapped, because to put right, cost around £1500!
The engine to use is the Alfa 3.0 or 3.2 V6. This is the engine usually used in the transformer cars. And it makes a gorgerous sound and with polished intake pipes, looks gorgerous in the Stratos. Engines can be picked up for a song.

Andy.

The heads are not prone to cracking,unless the engine as been subject to overheating(as in most ali heads)i have seen these motors that have gone round the clock twice running superb(and i have seen plenty),their biggest problem was sticking tappets and knackered valve gear thru lack of oil changes and crap oil and cheap filters(they love fully syn)oh and people who think they know something about said engine.

[sumplug]

That Daddy said:

sumplug said:

Honda 2.7 heads are poor and crack causing head gasket problems. thats why so many of them got scrapped, because to put right, cost around £1500!
The engine to use is the Alfa 3.0 or 3.2 V6. This is the engine usually used in the transformer cars. And it makes a gorgerous sound and with polished intake pipes, looks gorgerous in the Stratos. Engines can be picked up for a song.

Andy.

The heads are not prone to cracking,unless the engine as been subject to overheating(as in most ali heads)i have seen these motors that have gone round the clock twice running superb(and i have seen plenty),their biggest problem was sticking tappets and knackered valve gear thru lack of oil changes and crap oil and cheap filters(they love fully syn)oh and people who think they know something about said engine.

The heads ARE prone to cracking. Ive had 2 of them, so i should know. Heads needed "Lockstiching", and both cars had full Honda service history. The guy who did the repair[ex Honda], said it wasn't uncommon for this engine to have Head Gaskets go. I asked someone in the trade, and he said the trade kept away from then for this same reason.
Yes, there will be engines that give no trouble. But they are not the usual super reliable engine we associate from Honda.

[gtmspyder]

I had an 827 Vitesse that had 190,000 on the clock before I tuned it......With reprofiled cams, solid tappets, tubular manifolds and the inlet plenum sandwich plate removed (the one with the short/long inlet butterfly valves in it) it EASILY pulled the rev-limiter in top. That was nearly 160 on the speedo, probably nearly 150 real speed, so it must have been putting out over 200bhp. IMHO its a very underrated engine, because it is small and pretty light. I never had any problems with cracked heads.

The company that did the work were in Nantwich, but I can't remember their name now....they also did a lot with rotary engines.

The only problem was that the standard ECU couldn't cope with the mods and it used to idle really badly, but this is going back about 15 years now and a modern ECU (emerald?) would cope much better I'm sure. Even Superchips couldn't get into the code to reprogram it properly.

I took it on quite a few track days and it was much better than many people would have you beleive - especilally after I had a much thicker front anti-roll bar made up by Roddy Harvey-Bailey.

Did you ever see the Tony Pond video where he did the Isle of Man TT Circuit in an 827 Vitesse at an average of 100mph - it sounded great and went very well......