Converting to EFI

[190E Matt]

As anyone on here converted an engine to EFI? If so how hard is it? or is it more worthwhile buying an engine with EFI as standard and dropping it in?

Seems you can't really do any tuning with the mechanical KE Jetronic mechanical injection system.

Many thanks

Matt.

[MKnight702]

Depends to an extent how much you want to do yourself. You can go the complete DIY route like VEMS or Megasquirt or more off the shelf like Emerald. I don't have any direct experience of any EFI but I have done the Megajolt ignition system and it was pretty straightforward.

[carsounds_dan]

I've done it on the track bike, but for on road use it's not really worth it unless going boosted.

[eliot]

carsounds_dan said:

I've done it on the track bike, but for on road use it's not really worth it unless going boosted.

Or if you are making progressive changes to your engine's induction, cam and exhaust and dont want to pay someone else to keep retuning it - I'm thinking along the lines of the V8 in a TVR where you can make decent gains - not a 4 banger, where the gains are slight.

[Mr2Mike]

carsounds_dan said:

I've done it on the track bike, but for on road use it's not really worth it unless going boosted.

Better performance, better economy, better road manners. Why is it not worth it?

[190E Matt]

I am thinking of possibly tuning the engine by adding a Eaton M45 Supercharger and various other bits like stainless steel headers. To get a Supercharger to run I will need EFI (I think).

It will have to be in a year or two because of various costs, The other option of course is to get a later 16v supercharged engine fitted to the W202 C Class (the first C Class) and fettle it slightly, although I would imagine that there would be extensive work involved to get it to fit and bolted in.

Edited by 190E Matt on Monday 9th February 14:30

[GreenV8S]

190E Matt said:

I am thinking of possibly tuning the engine by adding a Eaton M45 Supercharger and various other bits like stainless steel headers. To get a Supercharger to run I will need EFI (I think).

An M45 is very small, what is the engine capacity?

You can run an Eaton with carbs. Either use a blow-through carb or pull through. It's been suggested that running fuel through the blower is bad for the bearing seals, but I run mine wet and haven't noticed any problems so far and I know others who do too. The simplest possible carb solution would probably be to pull through an HIF SU with a straight needle. It should run fine, the main problem you're likely to have with carbs will be passing an MOT emissions test.

[190E Matt]

GreenV8S said:

190E Matt said:

I am thinking of possibly tuning the engine by adding a Eaton M45 Supercharger and various other bits like stainless steel headers. To get a Supercharger to run I will need EFI (I think).

An M45 is very small, what is the engine capacity?

You can run an Eaton with carbs. Either use a blow-through carb or pull through. It's been suggested that running fuel through the blower is bad for the bearing seals, but I run mine wet and haven't noticed any problems so far and I know others who do too. The simplest possible carb solution would probably be to pull through an HIF SU with a straight needle. It should run fine, the main problem you're likely to have with carbs will be passing an MOT emissions test.

Engine cappicity is 2.0, I thought that the Eaton 45 was designed to run on engines with cappacity between 2000 and 3000cc?

I would rather not run on carbs, but that said as far as I can tell they do provide better tuning capabilities than mechanical injection.

[GreenV8S]

190E Matt said:

Engine cappacity is 2.0, I thought that the Eaton 45 was designed to run on engines with cappacity between 2000 and 3000cc?

If you red line the M45 it displaces roughly the same as a 3.0, so as the capacity heads towards 3.0L the gains get smaller and smaller. At 2.0 it's probably worth doing (you should be able to 5-6 psi) although by erd-lining the smaller blowers you'll get more power lost and more heat into the charge than a bigger blower running slower.

If you're into carbs and don't need to worry about MOTs then it's certainly feasible. Personally I think EFI makes more sense these days.

[190E Matt]

GreenV8S said:

190E Matt said:

Engine cappacity is 2.0, I thought that the Eaton 45 was designed to run on engines with cappacity between 2000 and 3000cc?

If you red line the M45 it displaces roughly the same as a 3.0, so as the capacity heads towards 3.0L the gains get smaller and smaller. At 2.0 it's probably worth doing (you should be able to 5-6 psi) although by erd-lining the smaller blowers you'll get more power lost and more heat into the charge than a bigger blower running slower.

If you're into carbs and don't need to worry about MOTs then it's certainly feasible. Personally I think EFI makes more sense these days.

What about the Eaton M90? or infact other supercharges?

I thought about tubrochargers but I would somehow need an oilfeed to it which would possibly represent the biggest problem.

With EFI how would you go about it if you were to install it? I am guessing you need to get the ECU for it programed by a specialist? (especially if going down the F.I route)

Also what I would be looking at cost wise?

Edited by 190E Matt on Monday 9th February 18:46

[GreenV8S]

Adding an oil feed/return is pretty simple compared to some of the other work you'd need to tackle to pull this off. Packaging considerations are going to be the first big problem. Can you actually get a blower in there and plumbed up? I was surprised how much room was needed to install even quite a small blower by the time you have mounting brackets and manifolds and so on. Assuming you take care of the blower and associated hardware you will need a new engine management system. I went for MegaSquirt which is probably about the cheapest you could possibly get (other than carbs) but this is aimed at people who roll their sleeves up and get involved at a very low level; it assumes a fairly good understanding of engine management systems, electrics and electronics. The more 'shrink wrapped' aftermarket systems are easier to use but cost twice as much. With either of these approaches you still have to provide various sensors, injection and ignition hardware, and a new loom. That can easily add a few hundred quid to the cost.

If you want to do it for the sake of the challenge (as I did) I'd encourage you to. But if you're viewing this just as a cheap route to more power I'd emphasize that it is going to take a lot of time, technical expertise and money - and the less of any of these that you have available, the more you'll need of the others.

[Ultra Violent]

We MoTeC'd my 964 turbo. In short, cost a lot, car is totally transformed. Like night and day difference.