Discussion
Hi all,
Been looking into my next project and cometo the point of engine management..
Ideally I want it to run:
Knock
Idle control
Wideband
Up to 8cyl
Boost control
Traction control
sequencial maybe...
The only one I can think of that has all of them is VEMS? I've used DTA before and love it, It can handle everything apart from knock, which is very important to me when going for boost. Unsure if it has traction control though? any idea?
Does anyone have any more information available about the VEMS setup or any other ECU's that offer all of the above at a reasonable price?
Many Thanks
Dan
Been looking into my next project and cometo the point of engine management..
Ideally I want it to run:
Knock
Idle control
Wideband
Up to 8cyl
Boost control
Traction control
sequencial maybe...
The only one I can think of that has all of them is VEMS? I've used DTA before and love it, It can handle everything apart from knock, which is very important to me when going for boost. Unsure if it has traction control though? any idea?
Does anyone have any more information available about the VEMS setup or any other ECU's that offer all of the above at a reasonable price?
Many Thanks
Dan
At the bottom end of the price range, MegaSquirt has support for all those features (except sequential - a new version was planned ages ago which will support fully sequential but I don't know the status of that). I don't know whether the support for any of those features is as good as you want though. For example it has knock control, but you need to prove an external knock driver and it is only a collective control not per cylinder, it has traction control and boost control etc but I don't know how good. So as well as just 'ticking the boxes' it might pay you to look into the features in a bit more detail before committing.
VEMS is a pretty competant ECU for its price. I have not played that much with the boost control yet (I'm still running in the VEMS equipped Impreza so it's not set up to make proper boost, and the TVR is NA)
Sequential injection and ignition works well, the built in wideband controller is very good and the trigger settings are very flexible if a little obscure at times to set up.
Knock control works best as an indicator of knock at the moment. I never let the TVR get close enough to knocking for the system to respond (and getting knock control is a difficult problem at the best of times).
The only sticking point is that VEMS doesn't have traction control, although it can accept inputs that can change tables or retard timing etc. So electronic variable cam timing can most likely be accomodated depending on how it works.
Not sure where the Solaris sits in terms of price, but I suspect it's a fair bit more expensive, but probably worth it if you aren't constrained by budget.
Sequential injection and ignition works well, the built in wideband controller is very good and the trigger settings are very flexible if a little obscure at times to set up.
Knock control works best as an indicator of knock at the moment. I never let the TVR get close enough to knocking for the system to respond (and getting knock control is a difficult problem at the best of times).
The only sticking point is that VEMS doesn't have traction control, although it can accept inputs that can change tables or retard timing etc. So electronic variable cam timing can most likely be accomodated depending on how it works.
Not sure where the Solaris sits in terms of price, but I suspect it's a fair bit more expensive, but probably worth it if you aren't constrained by budget.
ok,
well I'm trying to find people who'll tell me how the porsche variocam trigger's.. some say it's 12v. some say 5v. It's getting annoying. Thing is it's completely variant on rpm and throttle control, so the DTA system of on at X rpm will not work as well.. thing is it's variable lift and timing, so has two actuators, but these usually are both working at the same time.
well I'm trying to find people who'll tell me how the porsche variocam trigger's.. some say it's 12v. some say 5v. It's getting annoying. Thing is it's completely variant on rpm and throttle control, so the DTA system of on at X rpm will not work as well.. thing is it's variable lift and timing, so has two actuators, but these usually are both working at the same time.
CNHSS1 said:
i believe Rob (Phatbob) is no longer doing Vems development
Vixpy
your solaris product look interesting
will have to keep an eye on the range. no price for the S4c though?
i assume Jez Horsham is using the S8c?
Jez is running an S6, we are dropping the S4C as the S6 is cheaper and better.Vixpy
your solaris product look interesting
will have to keep an eye on the range. no price for the S4c though?i assume Jez Horsham is using the S8c?
Edited by CNHSS1 on Wednesday 4th March 17:39
Icarus_ said:
Am I right in thinking the S6 isn't a fully sealed ECU though and that it doesn't have internal coil drivers?
You are indeed, it needs an ignitor pack to fire the coils, and is not fully sealed, however it was designed for road cars, most of which have ignitors and the ecu is stored in a waterproof position, we can still do the S4C on requestYou still haven't mentioned a price, Vixpy. What are the advantages over a Megasquirt, which can do all of the above (apart from sequential, which seems to have an advantage only for emissions) and includes coil drivers?
The Megasquirt is between £3-400 with a one year warranty dependant upon which igniton system you want to run.
I already have an MSnS-E for my project, but am always interested in other systems. It always concerns me though, when a manufacturer/distributoris scared to put a price on their product.
EDIT: In fact, when looking at your website I can find no links to the product. Is it top secret now?
The Megasquirt is between £3-400 with a one year warranty dependant upon which igniton system you want to run.
I already have an MSnS-E for my project, but am always interested in other systems. It always concerns me though, when a manufacturer/distributoris scared to put a price on their product.
EDIT: In fact, when looking at your website I can find no links to the product. Is it top secret now?
BB-Q said:
What are the advantages over a Megasquirt, ...
The MegaSquirt system is nice and cheap, you can find out exactly how it works and even change the coed or hardware design if you want to, but it's severely compromised in terms of how much memory and configuration storage it has, and the number of inputs and outputs. The systems that Vixpy refers to look massively more capable. You don't absolutely need those extra capabilities to get the car running, but if you're pushing the envelope you will probably find that you want to log manifold pressure and temperature in several places, and engine coolant temperatures, and charge cooler temperatures, oil temperature/pressure, fuel temperature/pressure, EGT and so on. And you will then probably want to trim the fuel and ignition based on these input, and switch fans and pumps on and off. You may even want to do clever stuff like knock management per cylinder, self mapping, onboard fault diagnosis with reversionary modes to deal with duff sensors. And you haven't got a hope in hell of doing any of that via MS or any of the cheap aftermarket systems.I think you should check your facts before typing. Whilst Megasquirt is not the be all and end all of engine management it is a very capable system that is able to do many of the things you have mentioned.
I am not an engine management expert, which is why I've asked the inital question, but there see3ms to be an underlying mentality in the industry that to achieve a good result you have to spend big money. This simply isn't true, but it seems to me that this is a big part of the kick that many people get when modifying their cars.
I am not an engine management expert, which is why I've asked the inital question, but there see3ms to be an underlying mentality in the industry that to achieve a good result you have to spend big money. This simply isn't true, but it seems to me that this is a big part of the kick that many people get when modifying their cars.
I completely agree that you don't have to spend the earth to get results.. but as the OP no-one has actually answered my question, is there a system that can deal with what I want? can MS be configured to do it? I like the DTA system with its waterproofing amd can cover everything except knock detection BUT you can use an extra input to retard ignition and/or fuel... thing is to get the spec I need your well into £1000 before mapping...
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