Starter motor kit seems shite - any idea why?
Discussion
I have a mid engined car using a SBC and Porsche G50. I have bought a adapter plate/triple plate clutch and starter/ring gear from a well known supplier of such items who I cannot mention at this juncture but have experienced problems of such extreme magnitude that I have been left with no choice but to remove the parts that are believed to be responsible and replace them with parts of a known quantity fitted in a previously tried and tested fashion.
The reason for the above question is that so far I have not been able to get a satisfactory answer from any of the people that I have expected may have an answer to this particular conundrum. The kit supplier is blaming other factors for causing the problem but the more I dig, the more facts that others have had similar problems are coming to light.I will try to be as thorough as I can in my analysis but obviously as it is a tricky problem, the description of the problem will more than likely be almost as trying, but here goes;
I have a 7.25" flywheel and to that is attached the clutch and in turn to that a type of steel basket ( think along the lines of the type of 'funnel' collar that dogs where to stop them from aggravating a wound type affair ) and to that at the widest outside perimeter is the ring gear. The starter is a 1.4 KW reduction type motor with an ali spacer of about 10mm between its base and the bell housing of the G5o trans-axle. The mesh and engagement has been set up EXACTLY to the suppliers instructions actually AT the suppliers premises. All tolerances are as spot on as they can be, end of. Now, the problem; The starting system will only give a few starts before teeth are being smashed off of either the pinion, the ring gear or as in the last case, BOTH! In the run up to the current situation we have tried two different makes of starter and been through 4 x pinion and 3 x ring gears. Since fitting the second, more powerful starter we noticed that the starter was trying to turn in the spacer and although it is bolted onto the starter itself, it is by using 2 x 50mm M5 and as I did not think this was satisfactory, a brace was made to eliminate this from happening.
As you can imagine, several ideas have been punted around ranging from plausible, ie. are the ring gear/pinion of a compatible ratio? Is the basket flexing or moving on the clutch location? to the comic ones like; The engine is to tight or high a compression ( 11.5-1 ) or, and this is my favourite to date; Is the flywheel bent?
Although I am dealing with this problem by approaching it from another angle, I am still eager to find out why the original set up will not work, over to you Gentlemen, and thank you for your time.
The reason for the above question is that so far I have not been able to get a satisfactory answer from any of the people that I have expected may have an answer to this particular conundrum. The kit supplier is blaming other factors for causing the problem but the more I dig, the more facts that others have had similar problems are coming to light.I will try to be as thorough as I can in my analysis but obviously as it is a tricky problem, the description of the problem will more than likely be almost as trying, but here goes;
I have a 7.25" flywheel and to that is attached the clutch and in turn to that a type of steel basket ( think along the lines of the type of 'funnel' collar that dogs where to stop them from aggravating a wound type affair ) and to that at the widest outside perimeter is the ring gear. The starter is a 1.4 KW reduction type motor with an ali spacer of about 10mm between its base and the bell housing of the G5o trans-axle. The mesh and engagement has been set up EXACTLY to the suppliers instructions actually AT the suppliers premises. All tolerances are as spot on as they can be, end of. Now, the problem; The starting system will only give a few starts before teeth are being smashed off of either the pinion, the ring gear or as in the last case, BOTH! In the run up to the current situation we have tried two different makes of starter and been through 4 x pinion and 3 x ring gears. Since fitting the second, more powerful starter we noticed that the starter was trying to turn in the spacer and although it is bolted onto the starter itself, it is by using 2 x 50mm M5 and as I did not think this was satisfactory, a brace was made to eliminate this from happening.
As you can imagine, several ideas have been punted around ranging from plausible, ie. are the ring gear/pinion of a compatible ratio? Is the basket flexing or moving on the clutch location? to the comic ones like; The engine is to tight or high a compression ( 11.5-1 ) or, and this is my favourite to date; Is the flywheel bent?
Although I am dealing with this problem by approaching it from another angle, I am still eager to find out why the original set up will not work, over to you Gentlemen, and thank you for your time.
This was indeed the conclusion that was arrived at the first time around and even if it had been the cause the time before this, I am absolutely positive that all specified clearances were absolutely spot on with regards to all of the information that we were given by the suppliers and indeed was confirmed by the starter motor manufactures themselves too. As far as it is possible to ascertain the pinion in relation to ring gear tolerances were bang on so it was not the cause of the failure.
The starter was held solid once a bracket had bean made and fitted, it was bolted to the back of the solenoid and then to the trans axle.
I do not have any pictures, did not think to take any. The teeth of the pinion look like they have crashed into the teeth on the ring gear which would indicate movement of the starter or the ring gear to alter the specified clearance. One other possibility is that the pinion was trying to climb the ring gear as it was rotating which would indicate a pitch miss match but I have been assured that both parts correspond. I will get the redundant parts independently checked for an honest and unbiased result.
I do not have any pictures, did not think to take any. The teeth of the pinion look like they have crashed into the teeth on the ring gear which would indicate movement of the starter or the ring gear to alter the specified clearance. One other possibility is that the pinion was trying to climb the ring gear as it was rotating which would indicate a pitch miss match but I have been assured that both parts correspond. I will get the redundant parts independently checked for an honest and unbiased result.
The starter bolts on to the trans axle and that is part of the reason for getting all the correct clearances set at the suppliers premises. They have an alignment tool that fits over the collar on the input shaft and replicates the flywheel position. Life would have been a lot easier if the starter had been fitted to the engine but guess what?, it was not possible as the block is an aftermarket ali derivative and because the pan rails are beefier than standard and in conjunction with the monster dry sump pan there is not enough clearance on either side.
If by 'update' you mean have I made any headway in relation to a satisfactory conclusion being reached between me and the kit supplier then the answer I am afraid is not yet.
With regards to resolving the issue independently then yes and I should have a working end product by the close of this week
Since encountering the never ending plethora of problems related to this kit I have heard of two similar type problems occurring with people in the same boat and have spoken to one fella with the kit that has yet to use his car on a regular basis.
Make your own conclusion and I must stress that I really do not want to go toe to toe with the kit supplier but I have given the parts used more than a fair crack of the whip but is it not a most logical approach that if you replace suspect parts with different parts and as a result end up with a working situation then original parts are not compatible at best, will not work as intended as a kit at worst?
With regards to resolving the issue independently then yes and I should have a working end product by the close of this week
Since encountering the never ending plethora of problems related to this kit I have heard of two similar type problems occurring with people in the same boat and have spoken to one fella with the kit that has yet to use his car on a regular basis.
Make your own conclusion and I must stress that I really do not want to go toe to toe with the kit supplier but I have given the parts used more than a fair crack of the whip but is it not a most logical approach that if you replace suspect parts with different parts and as a result end up with a working situation then original parts are not compatible at best, will not work as intended as a kit at worst?
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