driving with HGF?
Discussion
I am thinking of buying a car with a possible minor(?) head gasket failure and I want to be able to drive the car from the seller to a local(to me) garage to get it fixed, it would be about 120 miles.
What I am trying to find out is what symptoms should I be looking for that would tell me whether the engine is too far gone to even drive a short distance?
How bad is too bad?
The reported symptom is that when hot started or pulling away the exhaust will give some white smoke.
I would like to avoid trailering the car but I dont want to completely destroy the engine either.
What I am trying to find out is what symptoms should I be looking for that would tell me whether the engine is too far gone to even drive a short distance?
How bad is too bad?
The reported symptom is that when hot started or pulling away the exhaust will give some white smoke.
I would like to avoid trailering the car but I dont want to completely destroy the engine either.
Provided the engine starts and runs ok then your main concerns are oil and water consumption. I suggest taking lots of both with you plus a towrope and try the car for a couple of miles round the sellers local neighbourhood first so if it doesn't run very well you're not too far away when you find that out.
If you do try to make it back then stop every now and then to check the water level in the expansion tank and the oil level. Obviously never remove an expansion tank cap until the engine has cooled down a bit and don't add cold water to a very hot engine. If someone follows you back in another car then at least if you break down you can tow it somewhere safe rather than having to leave it by the side of the road.
Also remember that just going by the temperature gauge isn't reliable if the engine has lost so much water that the temp sender is no longer submerged. You can actually get a cold reading when the engine is really melting because the sender has no fluid round it to take a reading from.
Kind of reminds me of when I tried to drive my knackered old Marina the 150 or so miles to my uncle's garage 30 years ago to rebuild the engine. It was using so much oil by then you couldn't actually see the cars behind you because of the smoke. I took a gallon can of oil with me and after maybe 50 miles it already needed half of that. Another 50 miles later I poured the rest in and climbing over the hills in the Derbyshire peak district with maybe 10 miles to go it had used all of that too and was starting to lose power as the engine began to seize. Eventually I was climbing hills in 1st or 2nd at a few miles an hour as I tried to keep the damn thing from conking out. Luckily it just made it to the final downhill stretch and then expired with a death rattle half way up my uncle's rather steep driveway. I guess I made it all bar the last 10 feet. I should have taken two gallons of oil with me instead of just one.
I hope your own trip is less exciting.
If you do try to make it back then stop every now and then to check the water level in the expansion tank and the oil level. Obviously never remove an expansion tank cap until the engine has cooled down a bit and don't add cold water to a very hot engine. If someone follows you back in another car then at least if you break down you can tow it somewhere safe rather than having to leave it by the side of the road.
Also remember that just going by the temperature gauge isn't reliable if the engine has lost so much water that the temp sender is no longer submerged. You can actually get a cold reading when the engine is really melting because the sender has no fluid round it to take a reading from.
Kind of reminds me of when I tried to drive my knackered old Marina the 150 or so miles to my uncle's garage 30 years ago to rebuild the engine. It was using so much oil by then you couldn't actually see the cars behind you because of the smoke. I took a gallon can of oil with me and after maybe 50 miles it already needed half of that. Another 50 miles later I poured the rest in and climbing over the hills in the Derbyshire peak district with maybe 10 miles to go it had used all of that too and was starting to lose power as the engine began to seize. Eventually I was climbing hills in 1st or 2nd at a few miles an hour as I tried to keep the damn thing from conking out. Luckily it just made it to the final downhill stretch and then expired with a death rattle half way up my uncle's rather steep driveway. I guess I made it all bar the last 10 feet. I should have taken two gallons of oil with me instead of just one.
I hope your own trip is less exciting.
Hi thanks for the reply and the advice!
Blimey that sounded like one hell of a journey!
There will be another car to help me, so I'll need to get a tow rope, oil and coolant sounds reasonable.
Any other advice? I guess use as few revs as possible, coast up hills, and try to put as little load on the engine as possibe?
Stevie - if it happens it will be a Cerbera Speed 6.
Blimey that sounded like one hell of a journey!
There will be another car to help me, so I'll need to get a tow rope, oil and coolant sounds reasonable.
Any other advice? I guess use as few revs as possible, coast up hills, and try to put as little load on the engine as possibe?
Stevie - if it happens it will be a Cerbera Speed 6.
Edited by eLSerbera on Monday 13th July 17:23
But there are several ways in which HGF can go. It can be combustion-chamber to water jacket (obvious); or chamber to oilway; or both / any combination of badness thereof.
Most engines will have a likely failure mode. Find out what that is first. Otherwise, you might assume one (eg to water jacket, meaning steam in the exhaust / water loss but probably OK if you top-up water regularly) and then drive 100miles + on one that is actually leaking water into the oil and long since wiped the big ends... Scaremongering perhaps, but unless you are already committed to sorting the worst, I wouldn't push it.
As noted, AA or RAC suddenly looks cheap for full recovery
Most engines will have a likely failure mode. Find out what that is first. Otherwise, you might assume one (eg to water jacket, meaning steam in the exhaust / water loss but probably OK if you top-up water regularly) and then drive 100miles + on one that is actually leaking water into the oil and long since wiped the big ends... Scaremongering perhaps, but unless you are already committed to sorting the worst, I wouldn't push it.
As noted, AA or RAC suddenly looks cheap for full recovery
From what I understand so far the problem only shows itself by slight over heating when at idle, and I guess some steam coming from the exhaust when pulling away and hot starting.
I'll know more by next week.
But I am wondering if the engine is consuming oil, what oil type would be best to top up with?
It just seems a waste to buy 2+ Gallons of synthetic 10w40 oil if its all going straight out the exhaust, but would a mix synthetic and mineral oil possibly make the problem worse?
I'll know more by next week.
But I am wondering if the engine is consuming oil, what oil type would be best to top up with?
It just seems a waste to buy 2+ Gallons of synthetic 10w40 oil if its all going straight out the exhaust, but would a mix synthetic and mineral oil possibly make the problem worse?
Personally, I wouldn't drive a Speed 6 with a possible HG failure anywhere, if for no reason other than if something goes bang it'll be rather expensive. As has been hinted at, join the AA/RAC/who ever now, and then if you buy the car just drive it round the corner to the nearest petrol station and ring them up. They should then take you all the way home. Much safer that way.
It all depends on how the heasd gasket has failed, but personally I wouldnt risk it- the reason being- the coolant is probably dilluting the oil and the oil is losing alot of it's luricity properties. In worst cases, in an old BMw E30 with Cracked cylinder head whwere the car kept driving- I saw it lead to valve gear failure- all the rocker arms and the cam itself were junk- like really badly scored up. The conditions in a petrol OHC engines cylinder head are particularly gruelling in terms of temperatures and need for good lubrication.
Snake the Sniper said:
Personally, I wouldn't drive a Speed 6 with a possible HG failure anywhere, if for no reason other than if something goes bang it'll be rather expensive. As has been hinted at, join the AA/RAC/who ever now, and then if you buy the car just drive it round the corner to the nearest petrol station and ring them up. They should then take you all the way home. Much safer that way.
This is my view as well.If you were taking about something less exotic where a replacement engine is cheap then it wouldnt be such a risk, but a speed 6 rebuild must be very expensive.. making AA membership or borrowing/hiring a trailer for the day look much cheaper.
Thanks Guys,
Thanks for the advice. The engine from the car will be sold off (a nice mild 6.8l V8 going in its place) which is why I don't want to treat it badly. It has passed the MOT in its current state.
Trailering it seems like the best idea.
Thanks for the advice. The engine from the car will be sold off (a nice mild 6.8l V8 going in its place) which is why I don't want to treat it badly. It has passed the MOT in its current state.
Trailering it seems like the best idea.
Edited by eLSerbera on Thursday 16th July 17:33
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