over filling with oil
Discussion
Grrrr
I overfilled my 205 today by at least 1/2 litre, when out on a test drive with would be buyers I had a rather embarrassing cloud of white smoke appear out the back, need less to say they didn't buy it
On checking the car when I got back it turns out the dipstick was in the wrong position (it was behind the airbox instead of in-front for those of you who know the engine layout) on putting it back in the correct position it 'gained' about 1cm thus making what I thought was very low on oil actually the correct level.
Apart from the comedy smoke what are the chances that I've royally f
ked my engine over? There is a puddle of oil at the bottom of the engine which is nice and fresh but I can't see where it is actually coming from. I take it there is a release mechanism there somewhere for idiots like myself?!
cheers
I overfilled my 205 today by at least 1/2 litre, when out on a test drive with would be buyers I had a rather embarrassing cloud of white smoke appear out the back, need less to say they didn't buy it
On checking the car when I got back it turns out the dipstick was in the wrong position (it was behind the airbox instead of in-front for those of you who know the engine layout) on putting it back in the correct position it 'gained' about 1cm thus making what I thought was very low on oil actually the correct level.
Apart from the comedy smoke what are the chances that I've royally f
ked my engine over? There is a puddle of oil at the bottom of the engine which is nice and fresh but I can't see where it is actually coming from. I take it there is a release mechanism there somewhere for idiots like myself?!cheers
The only realistic way to fx the problem is to open the drain plug until oil dribbles out, drain out enough, then tighten the plug up.
Overfilling is potentially enough to fill an engine by transferring oil vapour into the breather system. It can wipe pistons out from detonation on a petrol, or melt them in a turbo diesel. I would fix the issue, and clean out the breather & induction system to eliminate the smokiness.
Overfilling is potentially enough to fill an engine by transferring oil vapour into the breather system. It can wipe pistons out from detonation on a petrol, or melt them in a turbo diesel. I would fix the issue, and clean out the breather & induction system to eliminate the smokiness.
shouldbworking said:
Overfilling with oil would be blue smoke, not white. White = steam, possibly from a head gasket failure if its still there after warming up the engine
Even 'comedy' smoke?This was like a steam train out the back and there was a very definite smell of burning oil in the car as well.
Hoping it's not HGF tbh
Edited by raf_gti on Monday 21st September 10:00
I've overfilled engines with oil several times without it making a scrap of difference to how it runs. Being colourblind I don't always easily see the oil level on the dipstick properly. I put about 2 litres too much into my Focus a while back and it didn't affect it in the slightest. Too much oil in the sump can't make the oil get into the top end to burn unless it gets blown into the breather pipes and inhaled down the inlet manifold which means the bottom end is shagged anyway.
Sorry mate but your engine is knacked so I'd try and find the real cause before advertising it again.
Sorry mate but your engine is knacked so I'd try and find the real cause before advertising it again.
Pumaracing said:
I've overfilled engines with oil several times without it making a scrap of difference to how it runs. Being colourblind I don't always easily see the oil level on the dipstick properly. I put about 2 litres too much into my Focus a while back and it didn't affect it in the slightest. Too much oil in the sump can't make the oil get into the top end to burn unless it gets blown into the breather pipes and inhaled down the inlet manifold which means the bottom end is shagged anyway.
Sorry mate but your engine is knacked so I'd try and find the real cause before advertising it again.
Ah.Sorry mate but your engine is knacked so I'd try and find the real cause before advertising it again.
How best to test/prove this bearing in mind im a humble, crap home mechanic?!
Pumaracing said:
I've overfilled engines with oil several times without it making a scrap of difference to how it runs. Being colourblind I don't always easily see the oil level on the dipstick properly. I put about 2 litres too much into my Focus a while back and it didn't affect it in the slightest. Too much oil in the sump can't make the oil get into the top end to burn unless it gets blown into the breather pipes and inhaled down the inlet manifold which means the bottom end is shagged anyway.
Quite, used to fill my old Mi engine over the top marker of the dipstick. Although that was to help with the oil surge problems it never did any harm.On one occasion, after shortening the sump on my xflow, I put too much oil in by measuring it on the dipstick - forgetting that the capacity had changed. Everything was fine until I came out of a slip-road on the A12 and floored the throttle - and filled my side of the road with a thick cloud of WHITE smoke! It might have had a bluish tinge, but at the time I was more concerned about laying down a smoke-screen in heavy traffic!
When I got home I reset the level to where it should have been, and the engine's done 5,000 miles since then.
When I got home I reset the level to where it should have been, and the engine's done 5,000 miles since then.
raf_gti said:
Grrrr
I overfilled my 205 today by at least 1/2 litre, when out on a test drive with would be buyers I had a rather embarrassing cloud of white smoke appear out the back, need less to say they didn't buy it
On checking the car when I got back it turns out the dipstick was in the wrong position (it was behind the airbox instead of in-front for those of you who know the engine layout) on putting it back in the correct position it 'gained' about 1cm thus making what I thought was very low on oil actually the correct level.
Apart from the comedy smoke what are the chances that I've royally fked my engine over? There is a puddle of oil at the bottom of the engine which is nice and fresh but I can't see where it is actually coming from. I take it there is a release mechanism there somewhere for idiots like myself?!
cheers
I doubt that 1/2 litre over would cause a problem, but when you say nice and fresh oil, do you mean clean looking oil?I overfilled my 205 today by at least 1/2 litre, when out on a test drive with would be buyers I had a rather embarrassing cloud of white smoke appear out the back, need less to say they didn't buy it
On checking the car when I got back it turns out the dipstick was in the wrong position (it was behind the airbox instead of in-front for those of you who know the engine layout) on putting it back in the correct position it 'gained' about 1cm thus making what I thought was very low on oil actually the correct level.
Apart from the comedy smoke what are the chances that I've royally f
ked my engine over? There is a puddle of oil at the bottom of the engine which is nice and fresh but I can't see where it is actually coming from. I take it there is a release mechanism there somewhere for idiots like myself?!cheers
From what I remember these engines were prone to the hose from the oil filler to the sump splitting and I'm wondering if the oil you put in has just run out over the engine causing the smoke and oil puddle.
oakdale said:
raf_gti said:
Grrrr
I overfilled my 205 today by at least 1/2 litre, when out on a test drive with would be buyers I had a rather embarrassing cloud of white smoke appear out the back, need less to say they didn't buy it
On checking the car when I got back it turns out the dipstick was in the wrong position (it was behind the airbox instead of in-front for those of you who know the engine layout) on putting it back in the correct position it 'gained' about 1cm thus making what I thought was very low on oil actually the correct level.
Apart from the comedy smoke what are the chances that I've royally fked my engine over? There is a puddle of oil at the bottom of the engine which is nice and fresh but I can't see where it is actually coming from. I take it there is a release mechanism there somewhere for idiots like myself?!
cheers
I doubt that 1/2 litre over would cause a problem, but when you say nice and fresh oil, do you mean clean looking oil?I overfilled my 205 today by at least 1/2 litre, when out on a test drive with would be buyers I had a rather embarrassing cloud of white smoke appear out the back, need less to say they didn't buy it
On checking the car when I got back it turns out the dipstick was in the wrong position (it was behind the airbox instead of in-front for those of you who know the engine layout) on putting it back in the correct position it 'gained' about 1cm thus making what I thought was very low on oil actually the correct level.
Apart from the comedy smoke what are the chances that I've royally f
ked my engine over? There is a puddle of oil at the bottom of the engine which is nice and fresh but I can't see where it is actually coming from. I take it there is a release mechanism there somewhere for idiots like myself?!cheers
From what I remember these engines were prone to the hose from the oil filler to the sump splitting and I'm wondering if the oil you put in has just run out over the engine causing the smoke and oil puddle.
I had thought that but I've yet to jack the car to get a really good look, from what I can tell tho by squeezing myhead under it is not the filler pipe that has gone. There is certainly no sign of oil above cylinder head level, it is all concentrated near the cross member and bottom of the engine.
Boosted LS1 said:
Was it running well before the fill up? If so drain some oil and retest the engine. It may be fine after a run.
Aye it was running fine, if I remember my trade card I'm off to Halfords this afternoon to get some new oil, will also pressure test it when I get a chance as well.Pumaracing said:
I've overfilled engines with oil several times without it making a scrap of difference to how it runs. Being colourblind I don't always easily see the oil level on the dipstick properly. I put about 2 litres too much into my Focus a while back and it didn't affect it in the slightest. Too much oil in the sump can't make the oil get into the top end to burn unless it gets blown into the breather pipes and inhaled down the inlet manifold which means the bottom end is shagged anyway.
Sorry mate but your engine is knacked so I'd try and find the real cause before advertising it again.
I don't doubt that what you say from your experience may be true, however, those of us who design & develop engines know that certain engines can be susceptible to issues from the overfilling of oil - we've instrumented them, have put cut-out windows in components with perspex covering the openings to see what is going on, have sliced & diced the data & know what's going on for better or worse; all of this influences what we say. Bottom line - we put oil level marks on a dipstick for a reason - don't go outside of them because you may be venturing into the world of unreliability.Sorry mate but your engine is knacked so I'd try and find the real cause before advertising it again.
I don't disagree that some engines are more sensitive to oil level than others but there'll always be a logical reason if one perseveres long enough to find it. Blowby and crankcase breather location are the first things that spring to mind. Also obviously if the level is high enough for the crank webs to be submerged then a lot more oil is going to get thrown at the pistons and bores.
Engines where the breather outlet is a long way above the oil level seem to be fairly insensitive. Knackered engines with large amounts of blowby tend to chuck out excess oil into the catch tank in race use or into the induction system in road use.
The OP's extra 1/2 litre, if that was indeed the exact amount, seems most unlikely to cause a problem unless there's another problem like excessive blowby already tending to blow oil into the induction system.
Assuming it's a 1.9 XU engine, although the OP doesn't specify, the sump area is about 1000 cm^2. 1/2 a litre would therefore represent about 5mm. However he also says 1 cm on the dipstick which would indicate 1 litre. Maybe it was somewhere between the two amounts.
This engine has a high breather outlet and also a spacer plate between sump and block. It takes a lot of oil to get the level high enough to cause a problem as with the similar Mi16 engine. Ford CVHs on the other hand were buggers for chucking out any excess.
The sensible approach is to see if it still smokes with the oil at the right level although that might not fully prove it was just the oil level causing all the problems. It might just have been exacerbating what engine wear is about to start doing anyway.
With my Focus which never uses more than a drop of oil anyway I was on a 500 mile trip to Scotland and I decided to check the level when I filled up with petrol A) just in case because it was a long trip and B) because I hadn't checked it for ages. To my surprise I couldn't see any oil on the stick at all although as I say I'm colourblind and it was also nightime. I had a 2 litre lemonade bottle with oil in it and ended up sticking all of that in before finally realising the bloody level was now about 2cm too high up the stick. Trouble with my sodding car is the oil never gets dirty enough for me to see it properly. Not a problem I ever had with a succession of shagged CVHs which turned new oil jet black while it was still running down into the sump. Drat that Focus Zetec reliability.
Anyhoo, no option but to carry on for another several hundred miles until we could change the oil at the other end but it made absolutely no difference at all.
Btw, 2 litre PET Lemonade bottles are great things for carrying a bit of spare top up oil in for long car trips because the caps are bulletproof given they're designed to cope with the gas pressure of fizzy drinks. I've never known one leak. A plumber friend of mine says if the plumbing world could design screw fittings as reliable and leakproof as the simple PET bottle his life would be a lot easier and he'd have to use a lot less PTFE tape.
Engines where the breather outlet is a long way above the oil level seem to be fairly insensitive. Knackered engines with large amounts of blowby tend to chuck out excess oil into the catch tank in race use or into the induction system in road use.
The OP's extra 1/2 litre, if that was indeed the exact amount, seems most unlikely to cause a problem unless there's another problem like excessive blowby already tending to blow oil into the induction system.
Assuming it's a 1.9 XU engine, although the OP doesn't specify, the sump area is about 1000 cm^2. 1/2 a litre would therefore represent about 5mm. However he also says 1 cm on the dipstick which would indicate 1 litre. Maybe it was somewhere between the two amounts.
This engine has a high breather outlet and also a spacer plate between sump and block. It takes a lot of oil to get the level high enough to cause a problem as with the similar Mi16 engine. Ford CVHs on the other hand were buggers for chucking out any excess.
The sensible approach is to see if it still smokes with the oil at the right level although that might not fully prove it was just the oil level causing all the problems. It might just have been exacerbating what engine wear is about to start doing anyway.
With my Focus which never uses more than a drop of oil anyway I was on a 500 mile trip to Scotland and I decided to check the level when I filled up with petrol A) just in case because it was a long trip and B) because I hadn't checked it for ages. To my surprise I couldn't see any oil on the stick at all although as I say I'm colourblind and it was also nightime. I had a 2 litre lemonade bottle with oil in it and ended up sticking all of that in before finally realising the bloody level was now about 2cm too high up the stick. Trouble with my sodding car is the oil never gets dirty enough for me to see it properly. Not a problem I ever had with a succession of shagged CVHs which turned new oil jet black while it was still running down into the sump. Drat that Focus Zetec reliability.
Anyhoo, no option but to carry on for another several hundred miles until we could change the oil at the other end but it made absolutely no difference at all.
Btw, 2 litre PET Lemonade bottles are great things for carrying a bit of spare top up oil in for long car trips because the caps are bulletproof given they're designed to cope with the gas pressure of fizzy drinks. I've never known one leak. A plumber friend of mine says if the plumbing world could design screw fittings as reliable and leakproof as the simple PET bottle his life would be a lot easier and he'd have to use a lot less PTFE tape.
Pumaracing said:
Btw, 2 litre PET Lemonade bottles are great things for carrying a bit of spare top up oil in for long car trips because the caps are bulletproof given they're designed to cope with the gas pressure of fizzy drinks. I've never known one leak. A plumber friend of mine says if the plumbing world could design screw fittings as reliable and leakproof as the simple PET bottle his life would be a lot easier and he'd have to use a lot less PTFE tape.
Brilliant!! 
With her following behind!Mate of mine overfilled his Mk 3 escort once, because he filled it on a hill.
He wondered why it was smoking, and drove to my house so I could look at it. The oil had gone up the breathers, into the intake, and was pouring out of the plastic ducting and onto the exhaust manifold. The air filter had become an oil filter.
Apparently top speed was down by "about 30mph"
. I drained 7 litres of oil from the sump...
He wondered why it was smoking, and drove to my house so I could look at it. The oil had gone up the breathers, into the intake, and was pouring out of the plastic ducting and onto the exhaust manifold. The air filter had become an oil filter.
Apparently top speed was down by "about 30mph"
. I drained 7 litres of oil from the sump...Gassing Station | Engines & Drivetrain | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff