Replacing 4 pot with v6 Help please
Discussion
I have a chrysler neon Automatic with a
sohc 1996cc 4pot with 131bhp 177 torque nm fwd.
What v6 engine would be small enough to fit in the bay,
Someone in the states is taking a 3.3 voyager v6 engine
and dropping it into a neon
He is doing a manual
However the engine is too big for the bay without modifications
to the gearbox and steering rack etc.
I would like to keep the Autobox and steering rack as it is!
I was discusing this thread with one of mechanics
at my friendly garage.
He made a statement and making it very clear
"Any engine can be connected to any gearbox,
you just need an adapter plate!"
Which got me thinking so i asked another question.
Would the neon's 3 speed automatic be able to cope,
with extra tourque and horsepower?
He said it should be able to handle the increeased bhp and toutque.
The automatic can handle more than the a manual,
this is due to how it works.
So he asked me how the wiring of v6's electrics,
into the neons 4 pot system.
I told him that the megasquirt system was going to be used.
The responce was "Good choice"
I have while typing this post for this thread had another
3 questions.
1)How much a wieght difference is there between the standard,
and the V6 engines?
2)How much out of balance would this make the car if using
the neon's own automatix#c gearbox?
3)How much would it cost to get 1 properly/proffesionly made?
(approximately)
sohc 1996cc 4pot with 131bhp 177 torque nm fwd.
What v6 engine would be small enough to fit in the bay,
Someone in the states is taking a 3.3 voyager v6 engine
and dropping it into a neon
He is doing a manual
However the engine is too big for the bay without modifications
to the gearbox and steering rack etc.
I would like to keep the Autobox and steering rack as it is!
I was discusing this thread with one of mechanics
at my friendly garage.
He made a statement and making it very clear
"Any engine can be connected to any gearbox,
you just need an adapter plate!"
Which got me thinking so i asked another question.
Would the neon's 3 speed automatic be able to cope,
with extra tourque and horsepower?
He said it should be able to handle the increeased bhp and toutque.
The automatic can handle more than the a manual,
this is due to how it works.
So he asked me how the wiring of v6's electrics,
into the neons 4 pot system.
I told him that the megasquirt system was going to be used.
The responce was "Good choice"
I have while typing this post for this thread had another
3 questions.
1)How much a wieght difference is there between the standard,
and the V6 engines?
2)How much out of balance would this make the car if using
the neon's own automatix#c gearbox?
3)How much would it cost to get 1 properly/proffesionly made?
(approximately)
Your post implies you would not do the work yourself so this will be very expensive as it will take many hours to resolve all the problems. If it has not been done before then your mechanic/engineer will have to fabricate everything for himself.
The fact it has not been done before begs the next question...why do you want to do it? It would seem to me that the car is not a performance car so does not seem to justify the effort. If this were a power hike to a car with a performance pedigree then I could understand it.
Steve
The fact it has not been done before begs the next question...why do you want to do it? It would seem to me that the car is not a performance car so does not seem to justify the effort. If this were a power hike to a car with a performance pedigree then I could understand it.
Steve
Firstly I will be doing the majourity of the work.
The Adapta plate I have no experience of so to handle the different tolarances,
I thought would be best to get proffessionaly made.
If you like a car but don't want to change cars, and know that a more
torquier/powerful engine would do the old girl some justice.
It may not have been done before as here in the UK we have engines that
The states never had or got the principle of!
Not to mention the neon is not that common a car here either.
The Adapta plate I have no experience of so to handle the different tolarances,
I thought would be best to get proffessionaly made.
If you like a car but don't want to change cars, and know that a more
torquier/powerful engine would do the old girl some justice.
It may not have been done before as here in the UK we have engines that
The states never had or got the principle of!
Not to mention the neon is not that common a car here either.
To give you more food for thought or headaches.. have you considered how you will control the autobox? - It will be electronic and expect certain parameters from the engines ECU, if you replace with megasquirt you may have problems unless you have the skills to modify the MS to provide the signals it expects.
You may be better off taking the V6 engine complete with the autobox and the entire loom & ECU, then you are only(!) left with the problems of getting the rest of the car to work with the new ECU & Loom.
Personally as stevie noted, I just wouldn't bother with the car in the first place. You first port of call should be your insurance company to find out if they will insure you - before spending several thousand pounds on a low value undesirable car.
You may be better off taking the V6 engine complete with the autobox and the entire loom & ECU, then you are only(!) left with the problems of getting the rest of the car to work with the new ECU & Loom.
Personally as stevie noted, I just wouldn't bother with the car in the first place. You first port of call should be your insurance company to find out if they will insure you - before spending several thousand pounds on a low value undesirable car.
If you want a V6 how about this? It will be a lot cheaper/easier/nicer
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1984391.htm
BTW Chysler have had a lot of transmission problems not sure about the Neon but Voyagers..........................
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1984391.htm
BTW Chysler have had a lot of transmission problems not sure about the Neon but Voyagers..........................
Edited by chard on Friday 3rd September 19:24
chard said:
If you want a V6 how about this? It will be a lot cheaper/easier/nicer
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1984391.htm
Would be a decent car, and better than a Chrysler IMOhttp://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1984391.htm
I'm not going to get into the pro's & con's of doing this particular transplant and wheather or not the car is worthy. However! A Supercharger of Turbo Charger conversion would be a whole heap easier than the job you are looking to take on.
I'm not saying it would be quick Saturday afternoon conversion but worth looking at. They may not even fit!
Also, have you considered a simple Chipping job. There may be companies in the States than can offer a simple power boost?
Paul.B
I'm not saying it would be quick Saturday afternoon conversion but worth looking at. They may not even fit!
Also, have you considered a simple Chipping job. There may be companies in the States than can offer a simple power boost?
Paul.B
Paul.B said:
I'm not going to get into the pro's & con's of doing this particular transplant and wheather or not the car is worthy. However! A Supercharger of Turbo Charger conversion would be a whole heap easier than the job you are looking to take on.
I'm not saying it would be quick Saturday afternoon conversion but worth looking at. They may not even fit!
Also, have you considered a simple Chipping job. There may be companies in the States than can offer a simple power boost?
Paul.B
I wouldn't bother trying to chip that motor, either sell it or drive it till the wheels fall offI'm not saying it would be quick Saturday afternoon conversion but worth looking at. They may not even fit!
Also, have you considered a simple Chipping job. There may be companies in the States than can offer a simple power boost?
Paul.B
eliot said:
To give you more food for thought or headaches..
have you considered how you will control the autobox? -
It will be electronic and expect certain parameters from the
engines ECU, if you replace with megasquirt you may have problems
unless you have the skills to modify the MS to provide the
signals it expects.
You may be better off taking the V6 engine complete with
the autobox and the entire loom & ECU, then you are only(!) left
with the problems of getting the rest of the car to work with the
new ECU & Loom.
Personally as stevie noted, I just wouldn't bother with the car in
the first place. You first port of call should be your insurance
company to find out if they will insure you - before spending
several thousand pounds on a low value undesirable car.
Please forget wether or not the car is desirable to yourself,have you considered how you will control the autobox? -
It will be electronic and expect certain parameters from the
engines ECU, if you replace with megasquirt you may have problems
unless you have the skills to modify the MS to provide the
signals it expects.
You may be better off taking the V6 engine complete with
the autobox and the entire loom & ECU, then you are only(!) left
with the problems of getting the rest of the car to work with the
new ECU & Loom.
Personally as stevie noted, I just wouldn't bother with the car in
the first place. You first port of call should be your insurance
company to find out if they will insure you - before spending
several thousand pounds on a low value undesirable car.
this my choice of car and I love the old girl.
So no more suggesting other cars to replace her.
The only plug for electrics is for switch to say if the gearbox is
in reverse or neutral, the ecu doesn't control the automatic gearbox.
I'm not planning on spending thousands of pounds on this.
As for the Voyagers they use a different 4 speed auto box connected
to the ecu.
So what engines would be possible suitable replacement.
The only problem that has doged the neon and early PT cruises
are the cylinder head gaskets go.
And my engine has had it's cylinder head skimmed to the abslout limit!
The setup of the engine manahement system etc of the car is not as
advanced as cars that were produced in europe and asia at the same
time the car was produced.
To say it is simple is possibly putting it lightly.
chard said:
Mitsuru said:
eliot said:
I'm not planning on spending thousands of pounds on this.
Maybe not planning......................but if you go this route you will!!!I have fitted a mk4 golf 20v turbo engine in my mk2 golf, the engine mounts all line up, it fits under the bonnet, it uses mostly vw parts. However it was far from cheap, I'm a fully skilled tech & spent around 100 hours (inc megasquirt mods & wiring loom) and a couple of grand. To compare it with your idea it was simple & cheap. I guarantee you can at least double the time and cost I have quoted & wouldn't be surprised if at the end the damn thing won't even run because of an immobiliser, key code, ecu signal, ramdon parameter fault. Good luck, you need it.
bertelli_1 said:
Do you own a Neon Eliot?
I have fitted a mk4 golf 20v turbo engine in my mk2 golf, the engine mounts all line up, it fits under the bonnet, it uses mostly vw parts. However it was far from cheap, I'm a fully skilled tech & spent around 100 hours (inc megasquirt mods & wiring loom) and a couple of grand. To compare it with your idea it was simple & cheap. I guarantee you can at least double the time and cost I have quoted & wouldn't be surprised if at the end the damn thing won't even run because of an immobiliser, key code, ecu signal, ramdon parameter fault. Good luck, you need it.
immobilisers were fitted to the export cars only and are not part of the ecu.I have fitted a mk4 golf 20v turbo engine in my mk2 golf, the engine mounts all line up, it fits under the bonnet, it uses mostly vw parts. However it was far from cheap, I'm a fully skilled tech & spent around 100 hours (inc megasquirt mods & wiring loom) and a couple of grand. To compare it with your idea it was simple & cheap. I guarantee you can at least double the time and cost I have quoted & wouldn't be surprised if at the end the damn thing won't even run because of an immobiliser, key code, ecu signal, ramdon parameter fault. Good luck, you need it.
It is easily bypassed asnd have done a few times, but put back incase someone tried to take the car.
So please stop trying to put me off,
it just pisses me off and spoils the thread!!!
There might be others who wish to try something similar,
but because some people aren't helpful but are acting like idiots!
posting things that aren't relevant will put people off asking a simple question.
bertelli_1 you have done sometyhing along the same lines with a different car so I respect what you have stated and thank you for your imput and concern.
I have a spare Neon Autobox, which when an engine is found to be suitable, will be taken to machinist so that they can make the adapter plate.
That is the only part that I will pay for someone to make for me!
The help I asked for may need clarification.
Has Anybody retro fitted a car with other than manufaxcturer's
fitted engine?
What is a possably suitable v6 engine to replace the 4pot original?
Something that isn't likely to blow a gasket if it looks at a hill.
This engine should be something I can pick up from a scrapyard easily!
Anything is possible. But the fact you are going to such lengths to state what you know, and how much you know about these cars.
Well...surely you dont actually need to ask how or what engine to fit, as you already know what is involved ?
Any V6 is possible depending on how much work you are prepared to put into it.
So only you can make that decision. Are you prepared to spend several thousand pounds to undertake this work ?
Well...surely you dont actually need to ask how or what engine to fit, as you already know what is involved ?
Any V6 is possible depending on how much work you are prepared to put into it.
So only you can make that decision. Are you prepared to spend several thousand pounds to undertake this work ?
Edited by stevieturbo on Saturday 4th September 21:40
stevieturbo said:
Mitsuru said:
bertelli_1 said:
What is a possably suitable v6 engine to replace the 4pot original?
Something that isn't likely to blow a gasket if it looks at a hill.
This engine should be something I can pick up from a scrapyard easily!
Anything is possible. But the fact you are going to such lengths to state what you know, and how much you know about these cars.Something that isn't likely to blow a gasket if it looks at a hill.
This engine should be something I can pick up from a scrapyard easily!
Well...surely you dont actually need to ask how or what engine to fit, as you already know what is involved ?
Any V6 is possible depending on how much work you are prepared to put into it.
So only you can make that decision. Are you prepared to spend several thousand pounds to undertake this work ?
ps, I like the supercharged mini idea, sounds like a 'simple' swap.
If I'm using the neon's own ecu for the cars electrics etc how about on fooling it for the injection feeds/reedings?
I had a thought while trying figuire out an injector problem on an lpg system.
As lpg systems have to fool the cars own system into thinking it is delivering petrol to the injectors when the car is running on lpg instead of petrol.
one of these systems could be adapted for the ecu easerly.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-5-Cylinder-Bosc ... 563f31...
What do you think?
I had a thought while trying figuire out an injector problem on an lpg system.
As lpg systems have to fool the cars own system into thinking it is delivering petrol to the injectors when the car is running on lpg instead of petrol.
one of these systems could be adapted for the ecu easerly.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-5-Cylinder-Bosc ... 563f31...
What do you think?
So be clear then - The autobox is definately non electronic controlled?
Do you have any photos of it?
Edit: bit of googling suggests that its a Torqueflite 31TH - which seems to be non electronic. Unable to determine if it has a lockup torque convertor, which if it has - will need to be wired.
Do you have any photos of it?
Edit: bit of googling suggests that its a Torqueflite 31TH - which seems to be non electronic. Unable to determine if it has a lockup torque convertor, which if it has - will need to be wired.
Edited by eliot on Sunday 5th September 10:17
Mitsuru said:
If I'm using the neon's own ecu for the cars electrics etc how about on fooling it for the injection feeds/reedings?
I had a thought while trying figuire out an injector problem on an lpg system.
As lpg systems have to fool the cars own system into thinking it is delivering petrol to the injectors when the car is running on lpg instead of petrol.
one of these systems could be adapted for the ecu easerly.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-5-Cylinder-Bosc ... 563f31...
What do you think?
Your lack of understanding of what is involved, is perhaps why you are so keen to do this conversion.I had a thought while trying figuire out an injector problem on an lpg system.
As lpg systems have to fool the cars own system into thinking it is delivering petrol to the injectors when the car is running on lpg instead of petrol.
one of these systems could be adapted for the ecu easerly.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-5-Cylinder-Bosc ... 563f31...
What do you think?
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